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Paedophilia is an Illness NOT a Crime, says Cardinal Just Days after Papal Conclave
Dialy Mail (U.K.) ^ | 16 March 2013 | Anna Edwards

Posted on 03/16/2013 7:44:17 AM PDT by DogByte6RER

Vatican Pope

(Cardinal Napier, third from left)

Paedophilia is an illness NOT a crime, says cardinal just days after papal conclave

• Claimed people abused as youngsters who then become paedophiles 'not criminally responsible'

• Says paedophilia 'is an illness, not a criminal condition'

• Says those people do not deserve to be punished because they are damaged

• Pope Francis said that he wants a 'church for the poor'

A South African cardinal who helped elect Pope Francis has described paedophilia as a psychological illness and not 'a criminal condition'.

The Catholic Archbishop of Durban, Wilfrid Fox Napier, told BBC Radio 5 live that people who were abused as children and became paedophiles were not criminally responsible for their actions in the same way as somebody 'who chooses to do something like that'.

Cardinal Napier, who was among the 115 cardinals in the conclave at the Vatican that elected Pope Francis earlier this week, called paedophilia a 'psychological disorder.

And just three days into the new role, the pope and the Catholic Church are now faced with fresh child abuse controversy after the cardinal's remarks.

He said: 'What do you do with disorders? You have got to try and put them right.

'If I as a normal being choose to break the law knowing that I am breaking the law, then I think I need to be punished...

'From my experience paedophilia is actually an illness, it is not a criminal condition, it is an illness.'

The cardinal spoke of two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become paedophiles.

He told the BBC: 'Don't tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: argentina; catholicism; childabuse; conclave; freewill; homosexualagenda; paedophilia; pedoophiles; pedophilia; popefrancis; romancatholicism; sexoffenders; southafrica; vatican
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1 posted on 03/16/2013 7:44:17 AM PDT by DogByte6RER
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To: DogByte6RER

Being poor is not a crime, but armed robbery is.


2 posted on 03/16/2013 7:47:44 AM PDT by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Just because it’s an illness doesn’t mean it’s not a crime. We’re learning a lot of criminal behavior stems from mental illness, still harming people and breaking the law.


3 posted on 03/16/2013 7:48:19 AM PDT by discostu (Not just another moon faced assassin of joy.)
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To: DogByte6RER
The cardinal evades the reasons why we need to lock those guys up anyway ~ it really doesn't matter what their motives are, they did it, we don't want 'it' done, end of story.

Let the Cardinal spend his days in the prisons curing them.

4 posted on 03/16/2013 7:49:33 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DogByte6RER

WRONG. THIS is the thinking that protects these monsters. They do NOT belong in society, much less the priesthood. Anyone who thinks this should be defrocked immediately. They are not legitimate priests. Until-and unless- this kind of thinking is purged from the Church it will deteriorate. The idea of religion is to RAISE one up from the abyss of sin-not descend into it and excuse it. Sick-evil men covering up for each other and this Catholic is sick of it.


5 posted on 03/16/2013 7:50:35 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: DogByte6RER
I guess this Cardinal doesn’t believe in free will.

By his thinking, no one is guilty of anything. We are all shaped by our environment and genetics, but unless one is truly mentally ill, we also have a free will.

6 posted on 03/16/2013 7:55:28 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: DogByte6RER

The quickest way to flush this guy out is to ask how this “illness” should be treated. If his answer indicates that he recognizes it as a spiritual “illness” then he is on the right track, but still drawing a wrong conclusion. (BTW, spiritual illness is called SIN.) If he speaks of therapy and forbearance, this man is a monster and we should be asking exactly why he is taking this position. In my observation, those who seek to categorize child molestation as an illness often have a vested in making it seem less heinous.


7 posted on 03/16/2013 7:59:37 AM PDT by JimSp
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To: ClearBlueSky
Anyone who thinks this should be defrocked immediately.

And excommunicated, they are reprobates and are beyond redemption.

8 posted on 03/16/2013 8:00:11 AM PDT by usurper (Liberals GET OFF MY LAWN)
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To: DogByte6RER

The Pope needs to address what this Cardinal said.

I’d much rather hear a response against the statements of this Cardinal than hear stories about the Pope going back and paying his own bill. He needs to address a real issue. No one in the Church needs to be saying something like this, much less a Cardinal.


9 posted on 03/16/2013 8:01:45 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict
I believe this comes from what we learned in our youth...hate the crime not the person.

But I disagree...because all these events are/were pre-meditated.

All those priests should be de-frocked and sent to prison. NO...the church turned it into a "payoff".

10 posted on 03/16/2013 8:02:33 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: DogByte6RER

I think thou dost protest too much, Cardinal.


11 posted on 03/16/2013 8:04:48 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: DogByte6RER

“• Says paedophilia ‘is an illness, not a criminal condition’”

Some of these Cardinals have spent so long studying theology that they forget certain things. In one sense he may be right. Think of this analogy: Is it sinful to have same-sex attraction? No. Is it sinful to act on those attractions? Yes.

What the Cardinal failed to recognize is how his perhaps strictly true theology could be easily misinterpreted.

If the Cardinal thinks that acting on those attractions is not a crime then he is wrong and I hope his mind is made right.


12 posted on 03/16/2013 8:04:53 AM PDT by impimp
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To: ClearBlueSky
WRONG. THIS is the thinking that protects these monsters.

Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness by the American council of psychology. They were overrun by practicing homosexuals and reversed their position. Following that, the campaign to "normalize" homosexuality began.

You are correct, it is a crime against God, man and nature, however it is also an offense that requires institutionalization as these people are clearly insane or so horribly maladjusted that they cannot be mixed safely with the general population. They must be isolated and treated. Prison works just as well, IMHO so long as they never mix with the population again.

I think homosexuality can be treated to a point, but there is absolutely a difference in the severity of the affliction. Some can live normal, even describably conservative lives among us. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Others are more of the flamboyant, in your face types who are so highly unstable their behavior is unpredictable. These are "high risk" individuals who could easily go over the edge and either harm themselves or the innocents around them. There is clearly an obvious disfunctionality here that can be categorized by several mental disorders. These people need help and treatment, and should not be mixed with the general population. Think "San Francisco".

Anyway, I believe both disorders are aspects of mental illness and will not describe them as anything else.

And yet, they are criminal acts IMHO at many levels as well. Let's not break them down to the how and why, we'd both like to be able to eat today.

Cheers and thanks for fighting the good fight.

13 posted on 03/16/2013 8:07:40 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: ClearBlueSky

agree.


14 posted on 03/16/2013 8:10:36 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Go Galt!)
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To: DogByte6RER

Would not be surprised to find many of the Catholic clergy believe this. It’s why I suspect they often don’t act with the same kind of shock and outrage that regular people do when they discover one of their own is raping kids (boys mostly). So the church’s response is compassion for the poor sick pedophile priest (who is often a known homosexual), followed by an attempt to cover it up.

I’ve been told the Catholic church has really started cleaning house and I sure hope that is true. We can only hope this Cardinal is not representative of the majority of his fellow Cardinals anymore.


15 posted on 03/16/2013 8:15:17 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: DogByte6RER

Are there paedophiles who do not act on their inclinations? In that case, it is an illness like homosexuality, where one should not act on it, because of the sin, and harm to others such actions cause.

But paedophiles who molest children are criminals, of course! And they need to be brought to justice under the law.

I think some Church officials have completely forgotten that civil society has its legitimate demands, which must be served. One can pray for the sinner all you want, but he still must be brought to civil justice and punished.

This Cardinal should be gotten rid of. If he is blind to reality on this, what else is happening right under his nose?


16 posted on 03/16/2013 8:15:44 AM PDT by married21
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To: DogByte6RER

And people wonder why many Christians don’t consider the catholic church Christians.


17 posted on 03/16/2013 8:17:28 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: married21

It’s a mental disorder that the practice of, is criminal.


18 posted on 03/16/2013 8:17:49 AM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: lonestar

Right. Thank you for saying that, succinctly.


19 posted on 03/16/2013 8:19:05 AM PDT by married21
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To: DogByte6RER

It’s an illness when it seems like a good idea. It’s a crime when you act on it.


20 posted on 03/16/2013 8:19:14 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: DogByte6RER
Soon to become a "lifestyle choice"

21 posted on 03/16/2013 8:19:32 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: discostu

Correctamundo!


22 posted on 03/16/2013 8:20:32 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: DogByte6RER

So is paedophilia the desire or the act. If it is the first, I agree with the Cardinal, if it is the latter, I agree with DogByte6RER.


23 posted on 03/16/2013 8:22:07 AM PDT by stevio (God, guns, guts.)
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To: DogByte6RER
I'm willing to meet him half way here:

The desires of paedophilia are an illness.

Acting on those desires is a crime.

24 posted on 03/16/2013 8:22:25 AM PDT by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
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To: JimSp

Slippery slope.


25 posted on 03/16/2013 8:24:32 AM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: DogByte6RER

There is something seriously psychologically wrong in the mind of of a pedophile. If a pedophile acts on his/her desire to have sex with a child, then that is rape of a minor, and that is most definitaely a crime the pedophile should be locked up for.


26 posted on 03/16/2013 8:26:23 AM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: DogByte6RER
Pedophilia is a decadence disorder. The Sodomite or heterosexual sex addict needs ever increasing stimulation in order to maintain the same feeling of aliveness. Therefore, they cross the line.

The good Cardinal(Hopefully he is good!)is following the sickness model of explaining bad men and women. If that model was true every criminal from murderer otr thief is a victim of a disease. The Cardinal should stick to theology not criminology.

27 posted on 03/16/2013 8:27:05 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: RingerSIX

Having leprosy is not a crime, but purposefully infecting others is.

What a moron. Can we get him a job in the DOJ, or maybe as a chaplain with the armer forces?


28 posted on 03/16/2013 8:28:06 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: JimSp

The Catholic Church dealth with pedophiles by giving them pyschological treatment rather than going to the police and reporting it as a crime. These priests were sent to these “treatment centers” then let out to go to other parishes and commence their molestations all over again. The parishioners were not told what had happened in their parishes and the new parishes had no idea that their new priest had committed a crime against children.

Child molestation is a crime that has to be stopped. First report it to the police, put them in jail and then give them therapy if it is possible. I have heard that it is very difficult to change pedophiles.


29 posted on 03/16/2013 8:30:13 AM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: Caipirabob

The sickness -vs-crime excuse is ludicrous and applies to no other ‘sickness’. Lets talk pyromania- sick obsession with fire doesn’t mean you don’t incarcerate someone who burns down a building for arson- or murder if its inhabited. How about serial killers? They get their jollies murdering because they like it-hardly ‘normal’ but that doesn’t protect them from incarceration and execution. ‘Sickness’ is the excuse for everything now. I suppose if you are blitzed on medication for the flu and mow a family down with your car you should be excused because you were ‘sick’?
These homosexuals are mentally ill- but so is Charles Manson- he is incarcerated, why shouldn’t they be? Anyone who can in ANY way excuse someone who preys on children should be castrated, gagged with their own severed penis until dead and left in a dumpster for the trash collectors. Same goes for any women who excuse or enable this evil. Anyone who claims to work for God deserves worse.


30 posted on 03/16/2013 8:31:38 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: Longbow1969

My family has been Roman Catholic back as far as I can trace it- the 12th century- and I’m going to say this. These priests are not shocked and outraged like ‘regular’ people because they are practicing homosexuals who spend much of their time BENT OVER FOR OTHER PRIESTS. They have to cover up child rape-how can you condemn someone for what you are doing? It’s the ‘brotherhood of the d**k’. If the prosecutions start they will not end-they will all turn on each other-resulting in a clergy perhaps 1/5th the size it is now,if not less. They are having sex with other priests, male prostitutes and some are interested only in children. It’s not just the pedophiles we have to eliminate- its ALL homosexual priests-period.


31 posted on 03/16/2013 8:38:49 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: Bulwyf
And people wonder why many Christians don’t consider the catholic church Christians

Brilliant! so you took the words of one disturbed human being and painted 100s of million CHRISTIANS, with that same brush.

as far as Catholics and the Pope being Christian,

Christ made Peter the leader of the apostles and of the church (Matthew 16:18-19). In giving Peter the “keys of the kingdom,” Christ not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth (speaking from the seat of authority, or “ex cathedra”). This ability to act on behalf of the church in an infallible way when speaking “ex cathedra” was passed on to Peter’s successors, thus giving the church an infallible guide on earth. The purpose of the papacy is to lead the church unerringly.

32 posted on 03/16/2013 8:40:25 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: DogByte6RER

What a disgusting thing to say.

How many similarly ill young people contrive to have sex with these shriveled-up fiends?

Francis needs to purge this crap quickly.


33 posted on 03/16/2013 8:40:31 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: discostu

Every time I hear of some criminal “mastermind” who eventually gets caught red-handed, be it murder, embezzlement, or shoplifting, I can’t help but wonder how on earth did they think they would never be found out? Especially with the technology available now? Do they actually believe that they are so intelligent and so slick, that their tracks are untraceable? There’s a malfunction in their mental process at the moment they convince themselves they are invincible, be it lack of morals and ethics, or an over-inflated ego. Sociopaths?


34 posted on 03/16/2013 8:40:41 AM PDT by fivecatsandadog (Let's not be so open-minded that our brains fall out.)
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To: Longbow1969

The problem seems to have grown when the Church decided it was alright to allow homosexuals into the priesthood as long as they didn’t practice their inclination. This is like giving an embezzler a job working as a bank teller. This problem as described in Michael Rose’s book “Goodbye, Good Men” which detailed how homosexuals took over certain seminaries. These seminaries became a good hideout for homosexuals who flaunted their sexual proclivities out in the open. Real devout men were pushed out of the seminaries.


35 posted on 03/16/2013 8:43:27 AM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: married21
You're very welcome. :)

BTW, twenty years ago I had a gay neighbor who was very vocal against pedaphiles...saying they give all gay people a bad name. He was also Catholic and would go on tirades when some priest was in the news. His comments against it beat anything I've read on FR.

36 posted on 03/16/2013 8:44:54 AM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: ClearBlueSky
My family has been Roman Catholic back as far as I can trace it- the 12th century- and I’m going to say this. These priests are not shocked and outraged like ‘regular’ people because they are practicing homosexuals who spend much of their time BENT OVER FOR OTHER PRIESTS. They have to cover up child rape-how can you condemn someone for what you are doing? It’s the ‘brotherhood of the d**k’. If the prosecutions start they will not end-they will all turn on each other-resulting in a clergy perhaps 1/5th the size it is now,if not less. They are having sex with other priests, male prostitutes and some are interested only in children. It’s not just the pedophiles we have to eliminate- its ALL homosexual priests-period.

You need to have a talk with user LouD on this forum. Just more anti-catholic bashing going on here.

37 posted on 03/16/2013 8:47:20 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: DogByte6RER
Actually, pedophilia (or as the Brits spell it paedophilia), per se is neither a crime nor an illness: it is a besetting demonic temptation.

Acting on this temptation is invariably one crime or another, and entertaining it pleasurably (as fantasy) is a sin even when not a crime.

I have long felt that the extent Latin church's problem with clerical abuse of minors (I say extent, because no Christian confession, indeed no religion, is free from problems of clerical abuse) was a result of many local churches and dioceses abandoning spiritual standards in favor of secular psychological standards of "stability" in priestly formation. Men wisely seeking to embrace celibacy to flee from besetting sexual temptations, rather than being found unfit for the priesthood and directed toward a monastic life, were deemed "stable", ordained and given parishes. And when abuse was found, the secular "it's an illness" attitude was the basis for sending abusers for some sort of treatment then reassigning them to other parishes -- which I don't regard so much as a willful cover-up as false confidence in ineffective methods of dealing with demonic temptations.

38 posted on 03/16/2013 8:48:28 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: DogByte6RER

There is actually a good argument to this effect, not mentioned in this article.

The recidivism rate for child molesters may be as high as 90%. (I prefer the term “child molesters” over “pedophiles.” Pedophilia is a desire. Child molestation is an action.)

In several countries they allow convicted child molesters to be surgically or chemically castrated. The recidivism rate for those so treated drops well below 10%, in several European studies.

While those who choose this treatment are obviously a self-selected subset of child molesters, those who really want to stop, to me these statistics indicate pretty strongly that some significant percentage of child molesters suffer from an irresistible impulse they cannot control by themselves.

While making no excuses for those who act on such compulsions, it seems reasonable to me that those with such a condition should not be viewed in exactly the same way as those who choose to engage in such behavior.

Which I think is more or less what the cardinal actually said.

If I had such compulsions myself, I’d cheerfully cut my own throat before harming a child, and I have no problem with the death penalty for child molestation, if that were allowed. But some subgroup of child molesters are not necessarily 100% evil, though their actions obviously are.


39 posted on 03/16/2013 8:50:12 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Vaquero

We have to agree to disagree, that is not the case as I read the bible, but many of is know, different people will understand it differently. What defines a Christian is whether or not they believe in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice and being saved by grace.


40 posted on 03/16/2013 8:50:18 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

With all due respect one could argue there are other Christian denominations that blatently accept homosexuality and “gay marriage” which is strongly rebuked in the Bible as an abomination. As Christians we should unite forces against evil not attack each other which btw the devil loves.


41 posted on 03/16/2013 8:53:16 AM PDT by Scarlet7
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To: FR_addict
By his thinking, no one is guilty of anything.

We haven't heard his thoughts on drilling for oil, or on making a lot of money.

42 posted on 03/16/2013 8:54:17 AM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

IF it’s ‘anti-Catholic’ to call out the disease that is infecting the Church what is NOT calling it out? I AM a Roman Catholic-and homosexuality has NO place in the Church except as an abomination. There can be NO reason for a priest to excuse and protect a practicing homosexual/pedophile unless that priest identifies in some way with the lifestyle and thinks it is more important to protect and defend the crime than his vows or the Church teachings. You do not defend something if you are not OF it. Would taking a whip to the Vatican and driving out homosexual clergy be ‘Catholic bashing’? Jesus cleaned the temple that way- we need it done again.


43 posted on 03/16/2013 8:58:25 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: null and void
I'm willing to meet him half way here: The desires of paedophilia are an illness. Acting on those desires is a crime.

I remember having a similar argument with a professor in a college psychology class. He stated that pedophilia (like most sexual urges) is irresistible. I argued that it was resistible and that psychologists and psychiatrists suffered from a bias because of the (rightful) disgust pedophilia is seen, that very few pedophiles go for treatment because of resisted urges. Instead only those who have been criminally caught are medically treated. Thus since psychologists only see those who did not resist they assume that no one can resist. Neither one of us convinced the other, but hopefully some of my classmates reconsidered their blindly nodding approval of the professor.

44 posted on 03/16/2013 8:58:46 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: DogByte6RER

He is WRONG (using my Marisa Tomei voice)......as mom used to say, you might not be able to stop a bird from flying over your head but you can stop it from building a nest on it!


45 posted on 03/16/2013 8:59:12 AM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: FR_addict; ClearBlueSky; muawiyah; Vaquero
"By his thinking, no one is guilty of anything. We are all shaped by our environment and genetics, but unless one is truly mentally ill, we also have a free will."

What you said is exactly right, FR_addict. Everybody has an inborn inclination to do one sort of evil or another; that's called "concupiscence," as this Cardinal Napier should know, and it is an innate feature of our fallen human nature.

We are all born ith these characer flaws, and it is our responsibility --- with the grace of God --- to overcome them.

If one accepted Cardinal Napier's account of human action, one would have to say nobody is responsible for anything, because we are neither responsible for our genetic inheritance nor our early childhood development and environment.

It was wrong for Napier to say this. It was in violaion of what the Catholic Church teaches about human freedom and responsibility. I shows a failure to protect children from the predations of others.

And it was just plain stupid.

46 posted on 03/16/2013 9:00:12 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin' ." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Scarlet7

Bible is clear on homosexuality being an abomination to God. I do believe many people in the catholic church are Christians, but the church itself is not. Too many church teachings are in direct violation of God’s word. Time will tell. I know Jesus commands me to love my neighbor, I do admit I struggle with that and maybe I come across poorly but that’s not my intent. I do care about people and hope and pray many eyes are opened.


47 posted on 03/16/2013 9:02:22 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: DogByte6RER

Well how bout this one that happened in Syracuse, NY. A child molester carjacked an auto with mother and her 10 year old daughter. Kills the mother and rapes the 10 year old. Just sick.


48 posted on 03/16/2013 9:02:39 AM PDT by Bruce Kurtz
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To: Mrs. Don-o

And if you do not want to be suspected of perversion yourself do not defend or excuse perversion. Defend it or excuse it- be identified with/by it.


49 posted on 03/16/2013 9:04:14 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: DogByte6RER
'From my experience'

A confession?

50 posted on 03/16/2013 9:07:23 AM PDT by PAR35
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