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Utah: House advances bill to allowing permitless carry
nra-ila ^ | March 4, 2013

Posted on 03/05/2013 9:14:33 AM PST by Red Steel

The Utah House has advanced a bill that would eliminate the need for a permit to carry a concealed gun in Utah, as long as it's unloaded.

House lawmakers approved the bill 51-18 Friday morning. It now moves to the Senate for debate.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 03/05/2013 9:14:45 AM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

what use is an unloaded gun?

what part of “shall not be infringed” tells them they can mandate that it be unloaded?


2 posted on 03/05/2013 9:19:39 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: Red Steel

Does that mean no round in the chamber or no magazine in the well or both?


3 posted on 03/05/2013 9:20:12 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Red Steel

Will I still be allowed to carry a single bullet in my shirt pocket?


4 posted on 03/05/2013 9:20:41 AM PST by Gator113 ( ~just keep livin~)
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To: Red Steel

“Unloaded” = worthless = gun free zone


5 posted on 03/05/2013 9:24:53 AM PST by albie (re)
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To: Red Steel
This is a useless bill. I thought Utah was getting actual constitutional carry. Must be the Salt Lake idiots mixing in again with this "unloaded" crap. "Excuse me, Mr. Rapist, can you put your junk back in just a moment, while I take my one round outta my pocket and load my gun?"

YEAH, RIGHT. Why do these people not see how stupid this is?

6 posted on 03/05/2013 9:34:53 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: Red Steel

My that’s an expensive looking belt buckle ya got there pardner. Don’t hurt yourself.


7 posted on 03/05/2013 9:35:07 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: Red Steel

Unloaded gun =

paper weight
door stop
useless hunk of metal

I guess whenever a woman is in the course of being pulled into the bushes and raped, she can throw the gun at her assailant. Unless, its a gun-free zone. Then she is safe because no crimes ever happen in zone that has a sign.

Maybe she could just blow her whistle, yeah, that would stop him.

Or no no no, I know... since the gun is unloaded, she can put the barrel up to her mouth and blow across it like a whistle. Yeah, there you go!


8 posted on 03/05/2013 9:40:25 AM PST by envisio (Its on like Donkey Kong!!)
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To: Red Steel

What constitutes “unloaded”? In NY having an empty revolver in one pocket and ammo in the other pocket is “loaded”.


9 posted on 03/05/2013 9:41:03 AM PST by ctdonath2 (3% of the population perpetrates >50% of homicides...but gun control advocates blame metal boxes.)
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To: chris37

The legal definition of “unloaded” in Utah is not having a round chambered. You can have a magazine in the well.


10 posted on 03/05/2013 9:41:40 AM PST by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: Hoffer Rand
The legal definition of “unloaded” in Utah is not having a round chambered. You can have a magazine in the well.

Does that mean you can carry a six shot pistol with 5 rounds and the hammer on an empty chamber? Just axin'.

11 posted on 03/05/2013 9:45:42 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: Hoffer Rand

Thank you...it always helps to know what the definitions are. There were 8 posts before yours that need not to have been made. The ole jump-to-conclusions stuff again w/o facts. :)


12 posted on 03/05/2013 9:48:33 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: chris37

Baby steps forward ward are better then steps back!

leave slide open and magazine pocket, practice loading drill.

This will make revolvers a bit less useful of course but it the STATE is encouraging use if Auto-Loaders .. who am I to question /sarc


13 posted on 03/05/2013 9:53:11 AM PST by Bidimus1
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To: chris37

Baby steps forward ward are better then steps back!

leave slide open and magazine pocket, practice loading drill.

This will make revolvers a bit less useful of course but it the STATE is encouraging use if Auto-Loaders .. who am I to question /sarc


14 posted on 03/05/2013 9:53:19 AM PST by Bidimus1
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To: Hoffer Rand
Thank you for the explanation.

I wonder what this would mean for a revolver, no round in one chamber or no round in the next chamber when cocked and fired?

Except for a few folks and a very few situations, I would expect it would be worth while to get the concealed carry permit, as having to “chamber a round” takes time and when deadly force is required, time is of the essence.

15 posted on 03/05/2013 9:54:14 AM PST by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Red Steel

Utah, like many other states, is a couple square miles of absolute stupid(downtown Salt Lake) surrounded by thousands of square miles of conservative.


16 posted on 03/05/2013 10:03:31 AM PST by lurk
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To: USS Alaska
Does that mean you can carry a six shot pistol with 5 rounds and the hammer on an empty chamber? Just axin'.

Sort of the same thing. The chamber that is rolling into position has to be empty for it to be considered an unloaded weapon. Basically, according to Utah law, if you have to make at least two separate motions before the gun fires, it's considered "unloaded."

17 posted on 03/05/2013 10:19:31 AM PST by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: Robert357

For a revolver, it means no round in the next chamber rolling into position.

I agree with your assessment about time being of the essence. Also, when in a suddenly high-adrenaline, high-stress situation, the first thing to go are fine motor skills. And while practice certainly helps compensate for that, I’d rather have fewer steps to get to “bang” than more.


18 posted on 03/05/2013 10:39:54 AM PST by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: Hoffer Rand
Sort of the same thing. The chamber that is rolling into position has to be empty for it to be considered an unloaded weapon. Basically, according to Utah law, if you have to make at least two separate motions before the gun fires, it's considered "unloaded."

It's my understanding that current open carry law in UT is this way. Nothing in the pipe, the two actions are racking the slide and pulling the trigger. So they're basically allowing permitless concealed carry to match permitless open carry with this bill. Am I correct?

19 posted on 03/05/2013 10:42:28 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: Red Steel

Sure a lot better than states passing more gun control laws.

While I don’t necessarily like government making any restrictions, I do think you should have training before carrying. Not to satisfy some government regulation but just common sense to learn how to shoot better, draw from concealment rapidly and safely, etc.


20 posted on 03/05/2013 10:46:45 AM PST by skyman
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To: IYAS9YAS
It's my understanding that current open carry law in UT is this way...So they're basically allowing permitless concealed carry to match permitless open carry with this bill. Am I correct?

That's correct. And I read this bill the same way you do. They're just extending current law to concealed carry.

21 posted on 03/05/2013 11:08:22 AM PST by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: Hoffer Rand
IIRC actually “unloaded” for purposes of having in a vehicle when hunting in Utah is round in the chamber except in the case of revolver where the chamber under the hammer and the next in rotation must both be empty.

Does the proposed law actually use that definition? If so, other than only having four shots, the utility of a revolver for self defense would only be slightly lessened.

22 posted on 03/05/2013 4:33:41 PM PST by R W Reactionairy ("Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... but not to their own facts" Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
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To: R W Reactionairy

I don’t know what specific language the new law uses. I know the existing law we’ve been discussing applies only to those without CC permits. If you’ve got a permit, you may carry any way you choose, concealed or open.


23 posted on 03/06/2013 9:31:51 AM PST by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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