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Psychiatrists to brand grief lasting longer than two weeks a mental illness
news.com.au ^ | 22 Feb 13 | Clifford Fram

Posted on 02/23/2013 10:54:26 AM PST by Drew68

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To: Drew68
Psychiatrists

They are the high priests of Secular Humanism.

I refuse to asknowledge that religion. In fact, I deny the existence of psychiatrists.

51 posted on 02/23/2013 11:46:10 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering freaks.)
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To: Drew68

52 posted on 02/23/2013 11:46:29 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Drew68
The shrink told a friend of mine that he didn't grieve properly after his father died (whatever that means). His father was 87.

My friend noted that the shrink had the nerve to charge him for the whole half hour ($100) even though he was on the phone for half of the session.

My friend never went back. Said if he went back....lock'm up....because he's crazy.

53 posted on 02/23/2013 11:48:12 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Drew68

This is another example of the mask falling off and revealing the true liberal underneath (and yes, the history of most psychiatry associations shows strong liberal bias). They really do not care for people other than themselves...they see others as objects, numbers and obstacles. They want us to freeze in the cold to “save the earth”, fall prey to vermin by hacking away at the 2nd Amendment, make the killing of the youngest and the euthanization of the oldest a cause for celebration (abortion and Obamacare) and replace a successful choice (God) with one that never succeeds (government). They hate people, so any lengthy grief for another is a mystery to them.

I personally believe that grief over losing a loved one lasts a lifetime. It diminishes very much over time but is always there, only to end when we are reunited with them in a world a whole lot better than this one.


54 posted on 02/23/2013 11:52:06 AM PST by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: CodeToad

55 posted on 02/23/2013 11:53:39 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Drew68

It’s about a 4:1 ratio of time with a loved one to time “getting over” loss thereof. Didn’t quite believe it until it took 1.5 years to get over the ending of a 6 year relationship.

This 2 week line is sheer idiocy. Anyone breaking up after dating a couple months would be labeled mentally ill - pretty much everyone either has been there or will.


56 posted on 02/23/2013 11:54:02 AM PST by ctdonath2 (3% of the population perpetrates >50% of homicides...but gun control advocates blame metal boxes.)
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To: Drew68

The leading cause of “grief lasting longer than two weeks” is Barack Hussein Obama. There’s much grief for what he’s doing to America. We thought it could be cured on Nov. 6th, 2012 but the disease lingers and still affects millions of Americans.


57 posted on 02/23/2013 11:58:28 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (PRISON AT BENGHAZI?????)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
Yet another (example) of just how trivial the members of our society and its leaders have become. I still think of my daughter who died as a child thirty years ago. True I have not taken to bed; but I would say I still mourn her and hope that I will see her again. Their position is NONSENSE!

In the blur of my father's funeral, standing in the receiving line, I couldn't remember a thing any of those kind people said, as they shook my hand, or even their faces - except one. A mutual friend told me confidently, "it gets sweeter."

That atypical statement alone stuck with me a quarter century since because, though I did not understand it at the time, it turned out to be so true. The horror fades, to be replaced with a more or less permanent scare.

Their position is definitely nonsense because there are so many different kinds of grief. And, as someone once said, if you life long enough life can seem to add up to "goodbye and goodbye and goodbye."

The only kinds of grief that could possibly be defined as mental illness, it seems to me, are behaviors that only appear grief-related. Attention-seeking behaviors one sees more often in 19th century novels, like Dickens' matrons still wearing black after 50 years, or never leaving a house.

In short, I think the kind of wisdom that can help a person discern between "healthy" grief and pathology can't be placed in their little categories.

58 posted on 02/23/2013 12:06:48 PM PST by Prospero (Si Deus trucido mihi, ego etiam fides Deus.)
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN

I thought this was talking about GRIEF, silly me I didn’t realize it was related to schizophrenia and bipolar disorder...


59 posted on 02/23/2013 12:10:14 PM PST by EBH ( The 2nd Amendment exists for times like this.)
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To: Drew68
This on the heels on suspending the Second Amendment for people with "mental problems" of any kind.
Are my suspicions also a sign of "mental illness"?

We know it can takes months to years to cope with the death of someone very close. It is normal.
A two week time limit to mourn the loss of a child. Barbaric!

60 posted on 02/23/2013 12:17:49 PM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Biggirl

I’m not saying it’s wrong to pray for someone but there are those who believe that prayer will do away with mental illness.


61 posted on 02/23/2013 12:32:05 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Causing trouble since 1976)
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To: Biggirl

I’m not saying it’s wrong to pray for someone but there are those who believe that prayer will do away with mental illness.


62 posted on 02/23/2013 12:32:23 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Causing trouble since 1976)
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To: G Larry

I’m with you...stay strong. As others have pointed out the amount of “disorders” and the “treatment time” seem to line up ALMOST PERFECTLY with the available insurance.

No insurance, no illness, except for real clinical cases like bipolar (which is, maybe, 1% of the people being “treated” at any one time).


63 posted on 02/23/2013 12:34:29 PM PST by BobL (Look up "CSCOPE" if you want to see something really scary)
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To: Drew68

I’ve been in grievous mourning since November 6.


64 posted on 02/23/2013 12:38:44 PM PST by JT Hatter (Who is Barack Obama? And What is He Really Up To?)
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To: EBH

I know what the thread is about. I was responding to those who vilify psychiatrists and psychiatry.


65 posted on 02/23/2013 12:39:59 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Causing trouble since 1976)
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To: Beagle8U
You are aware that this is just BS to ban people from owning guns?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read this article.

I think liberals have figured out that wholesale gun bans just aren't going to happen so the workaround will be to prohibit as many people as possible from being able to legally possess them.

66 posted on 02/23/2013 12:42:41 PM PST by Drew68
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To: BitWielder1
A two week time limit to mourn the loss of a child. Barbaric!

Exactly. Still mourning the loss of a child or spouse 15 days later? You're a nutter! Hand over your guns!

67 posted on 02/23/2013 12:48:13 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Having lost both my parents and an older sister with whom I was very close I know something about grieving. In two weeks you have barely gotten over the funeral and all legal details of the death, and are beginning to look at issues about the estate and taxes. Family holidays closely following the death are especially hard. The grieving process takes months before things finally sink in and you can come to grips with losing a loved one. Even years after you sometimes think of them and feel a sense of loss. Surely a grief that takes over ones life and clouds out all else for months or even years is something in need of therapy. But to weeks and done is ridiculous.


68 posted on 02/23/2013 12:51:20 PM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Drew68

Grief can last for years, but it certainly isn’t a mental disorder. Yes, we know why “our” shrinks would want to classify people and it all has to do with control.


69 posted on 02/23/2013 12:52:13 PM PST by madison10
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To: CodeToad; G Larry

Wow.

So “See a Priest, get religion, pray” as advice about how to deal with grief makes G Larry “One of those “born agains” that believe medical science is useless and would let your child die rather than taking antibiotics because “God wishes him ill because someone four generations back committed a sin”???” and “an idiot”?!

Are you on the right forum?!


70 posted on 02/23/2013 1:10:24 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: SaraJohnson

Making grief a mental disorder will be a bonanza for drug companies that I don’t see most Americans falling for. Be thankful this isn’t the 1950s when over 30% of families are said to have admitted a member to a mental institution. We aren’t living in a society of overcrowded ware-houses where tormented people waited to die. But with more rights than ever, patients also need to have ultimate control over the process and take responsibility for their own lives, happiness and futures.


71 posted on 02/23/2013 1:17:38 PM PST by erlayman
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To: CodeToad

One of those “born agains” that believe medical science is useless and would let your child die rather than taking antibiotics because “God wishes him ill because someone four generations back committed a sin”??? / You are an idiot.


Your croaking is more than a little “off”..
Lay off the Frogerol.. your croaks are slurring..
You seem to full of Toad Stool..


72 posted on 02/23/2013 1:21:38 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: CodeToad

73 posted on 02/23/2013 1:25:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: USMCPOP

My kiddo was not in the military but was killed in an auto accident 10 years ago and I still feel the loss as much as if it were yesterday. Perhaps it is because of the unnatural suddenness with which some deaths occur. I also work in the mental health field. IMO, there is a huge difference between sadness, depression and grief. Parents are not supposed to bury their children and must reach within themselves with God’s help to find a way to cope with such a tremendous loss. For some psychotherapy may be useful. I do not believe that anyone has the right or sufficient wisdom to interject their timeline on the healing process.

Many of us who are older are also grieving because of what is happening to our once great country. IMO one must suffer from a mental illness in order to be a liberal. Too bad for the rest of us that no pill has been manufactured yet to correct this pervasive condition.


74 posted on 02/23/2013 1:32:55 PM PST by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

“Are you that trusting of doctors and gov? My Mother was almost killed twice by govt regulations.”

Then stop seeing doctors. The world can use less idiots that think doctors are the cause of their problems.


75 posted on 02/23/2013 1:40:27 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: G Larry

“Psychiatry has largely been abused as a secular replacement for faith and friends. Classifying it as “medical science” is a bit generous, as they have poisoned far more children than they’ve helped.”

Toal BS. Lack of parenting has driven many a person to need professional help but many have clinical medical issues. To cast such a broad net is just stupidity and ignorance brought about by angry emotions, just like liberals do about guns and other subjects.


76 posted on 02/23/2013 1:42:26 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: savagesusie

“Psychiatrists are how the gulag operated and the Stasi”

Gulags used guns so maybe by your ridiculous logic we should ban guns too. Just stupid, plain old stupid.


77 posted on 02/23/2013 1:43:33 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: VRW Conspirator
And never allowed to own a gun!

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

78 posted on 02/23/2013 1:44:00 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: piytar

“Are you on the right forum?!”

Are you??


79 posted on 02/23/2013 1:45:09 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: hosepipe

“Your croaking is more than a little “off”..
Lay off the Frogerol.. your croaks are slurring..
You seem to full of Toad Stool..”

Posting drunk again? Maybe DU is missing a DUmmy?


80 posted on 02/23/2013 1:45:57 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: Drew68
This is nonsense. It took me about 18 months to work through my grief after my first wife died, following 30 years of marriage. No, I wasn't depressed. No, I didn't need psychiatric care. No, I didn't need to be doped up. But there was a hollow place in my life. That doesn't go away quickly.
81 posted on 02/23/2013 1:47:16 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: BobL

“As others have pointed out the amount of “disorders” and the “treatment time” seem to line up ALMOST PERFECTLY with the available insurance.”

Never heard of that in the real world. Lots of urban legend about it, but never in practice. The fact is diagnosis do exist but insurance says not to treat so the professionals must let the person go, unless you somehow think people should work for free.


82 posted on 02/23/2013 1:48:17 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: Gen.Blather
It took a year to get over my dad’s passing and I still mourn him. Heck, I tear-up thinking about my former kitties.

You go on my permanent record! No guns for you!


83 posted on 02/23/2013 1:49:30 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: Drew68

You lost someone close to you, you grieve, you pray, you talk to your clergyman, you turn on your computer to read some anonymous fool tell you that you are an “idiot”, “stupid”, and that you oughta call a shrink and load up on Prozac. Yeah, that’s the ticket!


84 posted on 02/23/2013 1:55:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: G Larry
See a Priest, get religion, pray.

Do all that and also seek psychiatric help if you've got functional problems, intolerable dysthymia, and certainly if one experiences suicidal ideation.

The priest, religion and prayer will rarely do the trick on their own (and I'm a devout Catholic), as suffering is often part of the cross we bear. Use the suffering, within reason, to get closer to God.

Been there, done all that.

85 posted on 02/23/2013 1:56:08 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
The leading cause of “grief lasting longer than two weeks” is Barack Hussein Obama.

And being a malignant narcissist he's totally incapable of any feelings of empathy towards other human beings, so the concept of "grief" is foreign to him. He can make rules for the ants below his shoes with no compunction because he doesn't relate to them.

86 posted on 02/23/2013 1:56:08 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN

Most psychs went into that field to self-diagnose. Unfortunately that often results in them projecting themselves onto others who do not share their warped view of things.


87 posted on 02/23/2013 1:56:38 PM PST by darkangel82
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To: ruesrose
Grief is normal and we each deal with it our own way. If someone feels they need help with it, that is their way to deal. I lost my husband of 54 years and turned down my primary doctor’s offer of anti-depressents and I did just fine.

I remember having a conversation with a young woman whose husband's mother had recently died. He went to a psychiatrist because he was feeling "sad", and he was given anti-depressants to help him. I recall thinking that, aren't you supposed to be sad when one of your parents die?

88 posted on 02/23/2013 1:57:42 PM PST by LibertarianLiz
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To: mlizzy
St. Dymphna is a good saint to request prayers from. :)

Seconded.

89 posted on 02/23/2013 2:02:27 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: CodeToad; jimrob

Thought you might want to take a look at this one, Mr. Robinson.


90 posted on 02/23/2013 2:09:05 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Drew68; yorkiemom

There were 66 comments here so I read those before posting. I was a professional counselor/psychological examiner for over 20 yrs. and had a private practice. I was a conservative then, too. I also did grief counseling.

The reason for any diagnosis is this: If a person cannot control his/her own life well enough to carry on his/her usual life, a diagnosis is usually called for to determine why this is happening - but this variant behavior must persist for a length of time to give a diagnosis. Just because the DSM V we use, gives a directive as to length of time for a diagnosis, I wouldn’t have to use that time if I thought it was too short for a patient – remember every patient is different and a cookie cutter diagnosis does not exist if the evaluator has reason to differ with the length of time stated or any other reason that would adjust that diagnosis.

As long as a person can make decisions and carry on his/her life, there is no reason for a diagnosis of anything.

Concerning the grief process: The same applies with grief. As long as the person can make decisions and carry on his/her life, there is no diagnosis pertaining to grief. Now, consider, a person stays in bed for a year because the husband died. That situation could call for a diagnosis but only if that diagnosis was required for some valid reason.

A diagnosis is not a diagnosis until it is on paper (considering a computer as paper these days). In other words, I might think in my mind the patient qualifies for a certain diagnosis but until I record that, it doesn’t exist. If I had no reason to record it, I didn’t. Also, once notes about a patient are made, they are subject to be taken to court if for some reason the patient is in court. I didn’t record notes unless the sessions were paid for by another entity, like Texas Rehabilitation or Social Security. I had the ability to remember from one session to another, the last sentence the patient said in counseling the week before and we picked up there. I protected my patient’s confidentiality that way; if I had no notes there was nothing to take to court. If I had made a recorded diagnosis, I had better be able to defend that diagnosis in court.

If a private patient came in for grief counseling, I wouldn’t immediately write down a diagnosis - that would be ridiculous. Each person deals with grief in his/her own way. One can’t put a time limit on grief as going through the process changes as time goes by and that is individual for every person. In my opinion, it is new experiences that help dull the pain of grief and eventually there are enough new experiences that the patient thinks of those intermittently with the grief – it’s not constant grief as it was and as more time and experiences happen, the time spent on grief is less and less.

The grief is gradually put in a box in the brain and the person’s life goes on. However, all the person has to do is think of what’s in that box, and the grief comes back for a time. I have gone through a number of family deaths, my husband’s the latest, and those boxes are there. When I think of one of those boxes, I still cry. We would be inhuman if those memories weren’t there. I can’t cry for long as my Yorkie insists on licking the tears and that gets messy.

So, Freepers, all psychologists and counselors are not suspect to be as most of you think. Note I left out psychiatrists. A story: a counselor worked for a psychiatrist. This counselor came to me one day and asked how I “cured” people because the psychiatrist had a patient she was seeing and the patient’s insurance was almost out and she wanted this person to get better before that happened. She had noticed my patients did not come to me for years, mainly a few months at most. I told her my counseling methods to help people “cure” themselves. In my mind, I was thinking it was a terrible thing the psychiatrist was doing – writing prescriptions and keeping the patient until the insurance ran out. My method was, get the patient able to handle his/her life without me and get out of my office as fast as possible.

I hope this helps you better understand how diagnoses are made, why they are made, and maybe you can feel better about some of us. There are even psychiatrists who care about their patients – I just wasn’t around any in my work – the ones I dealt with were insurance money freaks.


91 posted on 02/23/2013 2:09:12 PM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: CodeToad

Posting drunk again? Maybe DU is missing a DUmmy?


Well... STOP IT.. then.. you can do better than that..


92 posted on 02/23/2013 2:14:01 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: PapaNew

I had a stroke on Jan11 this year and while in the hospital
the doctors determined that I was depressed. I probably was, but it is only temporry, as I felt that I waas in jail
nice but jail none the less. I’m out now and getting along ok. cn’t drive but walk ok znd cook nd clean just fine.
I sure would like to have one on those walk in tubs now.
That’s my only problem. and now having been labeled depressed.


93 posted on 02/23/2013 2:14:22 PM PST by jusduat (on the mercy of the Lord alone.)
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To: CodeToad

Yes. See, seeking counsel of a priest, having faith in God (praying), and not getting yourself medicated into a stupor are VALID ways to deal with grief, which is what the OP is about. You however apparently consider that to make someone a complete nutcase.

Ya might want to read Mr. Robinson’s many postings about what this place is based upon before digging your hole further.


94 posted on 02/23/2013 2:14:40 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: nothingnew

They messed up my mom, real good, which affected the whole family. I am highly skeptical of the whole profession. They just keep prescribing more and more drugs and they are addictive and dangerous.


95 posted on 02/23/2013 2:16:04 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma (The perfect is the enemy of the good..............Voltaire)
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To: Marcella

Great post! Very informative and well stated!


96 posted on 02/23/2013 2:17:38 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: old curmudgeon

“You would have to be crazy to go to a psychiatrist.”

People who go to psychiatrists don’t recognize a joke when they read it. It’s one of the symptoms of being nuts.


97 posted on 02/23/2013 2:23:53 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: VRW Conspirator

"allowed"


             .. shall NOT be infringed.

98 posted on 02/23/2013 2:29:28 PM PST by tomkat
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN
You are aware that psychiatric disorders exist and that psychiatrists are necessary to help assist those who are mentally ill?

Very true indeed and I would encourage those truly needing a psychiatrists to see one or a Neurologist. I would also encourage a person having difficulty with the loss of someone to see a good Therapist instead.

Psychiatrists as such will do the person with such an issue as this no good. In my experiences I have also found that psychiatrists I knew were some of the most screwed up in the head persons I ever met in my life. I'm not kidding.

99 posted on 02/23/2013 2:30:12 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Grams A
Grams, you have every right to grieve. I would NEVER get over the loss of one of my children or grandchildren. Oh, I'd go on beause we have to but still it's not natural.

My cousin died and her mom went on just fine but my cousin had been ill with cancer for a long time and that probably prepares one for the eventuality but for these wackos to declare that everyone should be past the grieving stage in two weeks shows just how far out of touch they are with reality.

100 posted on 02/23/2013 2:31:09 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma (The perfect is the enemy of the good..............Voltaire)
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