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Retired general says National Guard could help curb Chicago violence
Chicago Tribune ^ | 2/21/13 | Lolly Bowean

Posted on 02/22/2013 3:48:52 AM PST by Libloather

To reduce the homicides and shootings plaguing Chicago streets, elected officials should consider calling on the state and federal governments for help, even the National Guard if necessary, said a retired Army lieutenant general who spearheaded the military response after Hurricane Katrina.

"Just like we do with any disaster. When the tornado comes, or the floods come, the federal government comes in to help," Russel L. Honore said Thursday at a news conference in Chicago.

"Let's not let this be about pride. 'We are big ol' Chicago, we are too proud, we can handle this.' Maybe you can't handle it. If you need help, get the federal government here. But let's control the streets so children and elderly people can be in a safe community."

Honore, known for his no-nonsense leadership, was in Chicago as part of The HistoryMakers project to record and archive the stories of African-American military leaders. The nonprofit organization houses the largest collection of recorded histories of African-Americans.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chicago; general; guard; violence
Chicagistan. Aren't Hussein and Moochelle from there?
1 posted on 02/22/2013 3:49:06 AM PST by Libloather
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To: Libloather

All you have to do is utilize the New York City frisk-policy. Then enforce the laws that you have on the books. Yeah, you would antagonize the local population a great deal by putting young black men in jail, but they are the ones killing other young black men, and women. Within six months....you’d start to notice things changing, and within two years...you’d be amazed at the safe nature of Chicago streets.


2 posted on 02/22/2013 3:52:50 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: Libloather

If the military can’t stabilize Afghanistan why does he think it can stabilize Chicago?


3 posted on 02/22/2013 4:03:40 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: pepsionice

It may have to come to that.


4 posted on 02/22/2013 4:04:21 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Libloather

They too are “stuck on stupid”


5 posted on 02/22/2013 4:05:03 AM PST by CMailBag
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

If the military can’t stabilize Afghanistan why does he think it can stabilize Chicago?


Maybe he thinks the rules of engagement would be better than the ones imposed on American Troops in Afghanistan?


6 posted on 02/22/2013 4:08:20 AM PST by The Working Man
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To: Libloather
"jihad against the white devil"
7 posted on 02/22/2013 4:10:55 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“If the military can’t stabilize Afghanistan why does he think it can stabilize Chicago?”

Because in afganistan the locals are not nationalists. They are tribal and have been going back to Alexander The Great, meaning they are wiling to fight and die for a way of life. These punks in Chicago are, well they’re punks and cowards. They won’t stand and fight if confronted with a serious threat that willing and able to take them on (shoot to kill). But, that won’t happen, so things will continue as is, punks win.......


8 posted on 02/22/2013 4:13:30 AM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: QBFimi

waaaaCCCISSSSSTT!!!!!!!!!!


10 posted on 02/22/2013 4:19:38 AM PST by Flintlock (WHICH SIDE)
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To: Libloather
Permanent military occupation of an American "city".

Perfect.
11 posted on 02/22/2013 4:20:32 AM PST by 867V309
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To: Libloather
Good morning.

What about USC Title 10? Posse Comitatus?

Oh, never mind, what the heck am I thinking? This regime doesn't follow any laws.

5.56mm

12 posted on 02/22/2013 4:26:56 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Libloather
“Retired general says National Guard could help curb Chicago violence”

And If we were to become a Truly Religious People again, violence would also be curbed.

13 posted on 02/22/2013 4:46:30 AM PST by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: 867V309

I was not aware the NG was nuclear armed?


14 posted on 02/22/2013 4:49:08 AM PST by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: Libloather

We can’t use the NG to protect the border because of Posse Comitatus but we can use them to police the streets?


15 posted on 02/22/2013 4:50:46 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: The Working Man

As a former National Guard tank officer, I think that using Guardsmen for urban crime control is stupid beyond belief. They have civil disturbance training but that doesn’t equate to law enforcement. Because the Guard can be activated & sent into situations by the Governor, Posse Comitatus does not apply IMO. Would avoid it and instead use police tactics from other cities that actually work.


16 posted on 02/22/2013 4:51:58 AM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: pepsionice

I say let the blacks kill each other and clean out the gene pool. If you think this is racist, well it isn’t me going around shooting members of my own race.

Let Rahm and Obama take a steam together.


17 posted on 02/22/2013 4:53:36 AM PST by wetgundog (" Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is no Vice")
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To: pepsionice
Then enforce the laws that you have on the books. Yeah, you would antagonize the local population a great deal by putting young black men in jail, but they are the ones killing other young black men, and women.

Worth repeating and repeating and repeating.............

18 posted on 02/22/2013 5:02:16 AM PST by varon (USA Nationalist)
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To: Libloather

“Retired general says National Guard could help curb Chicago violence”

Can you say ‘third world s^%$ hole’?


19 posted on 02/22/2013 5:25:13 AM PST by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

He sure as hell stabilized NO after Katrina
but don’t blame Gen Honore or the military for Afghanistan we know who is running that show (Barry’s adminstration) and anyone who makes them look bad by really trying to win will get the Gen Allen-Gen Petraeus farewell kick in the ass

I say since the Ballerina Mayor’s administration is “stuck on stupid”, put General Honore in charge of cleaning up Chicag0 and give him 4 weeks to show results


20 posted on 02/22/2013 5:28:13 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Libloather

Now who’s stuck on stupid?


21 posted on 02/22/2013 5:45:09 AM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Libloather

This type of thinking is WAY to common among the cocktail party DC class generals.


22 posted on 02/22/2013 5:45:17 AM PST by rrrod (at home in Medellin Colombia)
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To: Libloather

Just how would than be done politically correctly? Would the areas surrounding the ghettos be Occupied and stripped to redistribute their wealth to the ghettos?


23 posted on 02/22/2013 6:00:36 AM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: Libloather
And how long would National Guardsmen stay in the NG if they were assigned long-term duty patrolling the streets of Chicago, getting shot at, and getting put in jail if they dared to shoot back?

Adopt "Shall Issue" CCW, Stand-Your-Ground, and Castle Law,, and see what happens in Chicago.

Actually, if you really want Chicago cleaned up, eliminate welfare entirely, and give welfare recipients (and the thugs who mooch off them) a choice of "work or die".

24 posted on 02/22/2013 6:11:57 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: elcid1970

I don’t know why people don’t get that. It’s a whole different ball game.


25 posted on 02/22/2013 6:16:26 AM PST by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: Libloather

Rahm doesn’t want his gangland activities interrupted.


26 posted on 02/22/2013 6:18:47 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: PapaBear3625
give welfare recipients (and the thugs who mooch off them) a choice of "work or die".

Yeah, their first job could be rounding up illegal aliens.

Their second job would be assuming the jobs of those they rounded up.

27 posted on 02/22/2013 6:20:54 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering freaks.)
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To: Libloather

Armchair swagger and bravado is not very helpful. I live in Chicago, have done so for 20 years.

It’s not just blacks. Hispanic gangs are every bit as much of the problem.

The root problem is family breakdown. Saturating the city with National Guardsmen is no solution.

The increase in crime and shootings is DIRECTLY related to changes in policing tactics, done to save money.

Rahm Dead Fish Emmanuel owns this mess fair and square. He and his sock puppet chief of police (a stupider man never was born) steadfastly refuse to change tactics and hire the policemen neeeded.

The gang problem requires gumshoe police work, not Rambo-types on every street corner.


28 posted on 02/22/2013 6:21:57 AM PST by Houghton M.
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To: Libloather

Wasn’t there a movie (sort of) about this kind of thing, called “The Siege”? That didn’t end well for the NG General, IIMN.


29 posted on 02/22/2013 6:31:41 AM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s Are The 21st Century's Muskets. Free Men Need Not Ask Permission!)
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To: Houghton M.
Rahm Dead Fish Emmanuel owns this mess fair and square. He and his sock puppet chief of police (a stupider man never was born) steadfastly refuse to change tactics and hire the policemen neeeded.

Adding more police will be ineffective.

More police may catch more criminals, but then what do you do with them when the jails are full and the court calendars are clogged? You need a change of tactics wherein you focus on career criminals and ensure they are put away until they are old and gray. Then you take away the incentives of leading a criminal life.

30 posted on 02/22/2013 6:48:45 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Libloather

The people of Chicago don’t want to handle, or pay for, this problem. So, the solution is to bring in the National Guard and let the state or federal government pick up the tab. Figure out how much the National Guard would cost and take that much automatically out of the city budget. See if Chicago will go for that.


31 posted on 02/22/2013 6:49:33 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Libloather

SO, more people with guns is the answer?


32 posted on 02/22/2013 6:55:02 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: M Kehoe; All

“What about USC Title 10? Posse Comitatus?”

He is wanting to use National Guard troops. Unless placed on “federal” active duty, they stay Title 32 and are NOT subject to posse comitatus. So, this is a backdoor way of getting “semi-federal” military for long term use on American soil.

What is really gauling is how they take ARNG troops from one state and use them in another. I can halfway see them retaining Title 32 status when acting within the state where they, more or less, belong to the governor. However, when they leave their home state, how can they still be considered Title 32?

The Katrina mess opened this up. Most of Lousiana’s ARNG troops were in a title 10 status and over in Iraq when Katrina hit. So, other ARNG troops from other states were used. It really is pushing the envelope.

Because of the high tempo of operations during Iraq and Afghanistan, the differences between Regular Army and ARNG became blurred with ARNG units mobilized to Title 10 status so they could reinforce the Regular Army.


33 posted on 02/22/2013 7:06:47 AM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Libloather

This “general” is out of the Loop. As if Chicago’s police and commissars would “kill the golden goose”.


34 posted on 02/22/2013 7:26:27 AM PST by Chewbarkah
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To: Libloather

Sets a bad precedent; Nastional guard hunts street thugs this month, Tea Party Patriots next.


35 posted on 02/22/2013 7:48:07 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: PapaBear3625
You need a change of tactics wherein you focus on career criminals and ensure they are put away until they are old and gray. Then you take away the incentives of leading a criminal life.

They could keep them in those lovely FEMA camps, if they were not reserved for us.

36 posted on 02/22/2013 7:53:56 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Houghton M.
>>The root problem is family breakdown. Saturating the city with National Guardsmen is no solution.

It depends on the "Problem" you are trying to solve. Rahm has no desire to actually fix anything.

He only needs a crisis to take advantage of to gain more power and control over the rest of the public gullible enough to "do something"

his goal is to allow the predators to destroy the remaining culture so he can rebuild the new society based in his beliefs instead of the founding principals that have worked for over 200 years.

37 posted on 02/22/2013 8:15:35 AM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (As long as America's tolerence of failure is not overwhelmed by a desire to succeed, we will fail.)
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To: Libloather

I’d start with the Sheriff of Cook County deputizing a large number of “adult citizens of good character” by posse comitatus, to be armed neighborhood watches, under the supervision of a deputy Sheriff. Each of them would be issued an open carry handgun and bullets, and the deputy would carry a shotgun.

Outdoor gang activity would just stop. At first they would flee indoors, but inside they cannot very effectively do business or maintain control of an area. And with the cooperation of the Chicago PD, who could enter buildings to do their thing, the gangsters would have no choice but to flee their ‘hood.

Then use the Giuliani technique to clear neighborhoods of bad guyz one by one. Once cleared, it is a lot easier to keep them cleared.


38 posted on 02/22/2013 8:51:07 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: Libloather

So could drones. Obama’s not opposed to killing American citizens without due process, ya know.


39 posted on 02/22/2013 11:25:10 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: Libloather

Replace the Godfather with Rudy Guiliani and see what happens.


40 posted on 02/22/2013 12:25:19 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Libloather
I'm not a legal expert of any sort, but it has been my lifelong belief (unquestioned) that the federal armed forces are forbidden to act militarily within the United States. Am I wrong?

Is this prohibition in the original Constitution or in subsequent laws?

Inquiring minds, etc. Apparently this retired "general" does not see a problem with his suggestion.

41 posted on 02/22/2013 2:51:07 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Unin label, then buy something else.)
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To: snoringbear
Because in afganistan the locals are not nationalists.

You really think Obama's armed peeps in Chicago are nationalists?

42 posted on 02/22/2013 2:54:49 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Unin label, then buy something else.)
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To: snoringbear
Because in afganistan the locals are not nationalists.

You really think Obama's armed peeps in Chicago are nationalists?

43 posted on 02/22/2013 2:55:00 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Unin label, then buy something else.)
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To: publius911


You really think Obama’s armed peeps in Chicago are nationalists?”

You must care a lot about this post because posted your reply twice :)

Anyway, I went back and re-read my post. I have to acknowledge that I didn’t do a very good job in expressing my thoughts. Soooo, I’ll try again. Guess I was thinking more about the Afghanistan situation than the Chicago cesspool in stating that they are tribal vs national. Meaning they have no interest in forming a nation as their allegiance is to their respective tribe and its customs and rules. As you may know, many have attempted to bring Afghanistan within their sphere of influence; Greece (Alexander The Great), Brit’s, USSR, and now the U.S. Now, what does that have to do with Chicago and their gangs? Not much I suppose except that they pledge their allegiance first and foremost to their homie gang and not to anything else. Do I think that our military could clean these rat nests out? Sure, it’s had plenty of practice doing so in Afghanistan. But, I seriously doubt that their ROE’s that they would be required to operate under would allow that. Heck, they might not even be allowed to pack live ammo.

Well, hope clarified this some and soothed your festering soul :)


44 posted on 02/22/2013 3:18:35 PM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: PapaBear3625

Police presence does deter. My neighborhood has been invaded by gang turf wars precisely because police really cracked down on an adjoining area after a toddler was shot in crossfire.

I agree that courts and prisons are part of the problem. But policing tactics were changed by the Ballerina.

The only real solution is family and society. And not much hope there.

This thread is about using the National Guard. That’s foolish. None of the options are great.


45 posted on 02/22/2013 3:46:50 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.; snoringbear
If the street gangs had tried their thing in a solid neighborhood of 100 years ago, the working men of the neighborhood, in order to protect their families and property, would have just lynched all the gang bangers, and that would have been that.

It is the welfare state that allows this chaos. In an environment where if you don't perform productive work, you die, the gang bangers could not exist for long.

46 posted on 02/22/2013 5:23:28 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

“If the street gangs had tried their thing in a solid neighborhood of 100 years ago, the working men of the neighborhood, in order to protect their families and property, would have just lynched all the gang bangers, and that would have been that.
It is the welfare state that allows this chaos. In an environment where if you don’t perform productive work, you die, the gang bangers could not exist for long.”

Hey fellow Bear! Agree with all you say. However, I’m not very hopefull that these festering cesspools will ever be turned around. So, the question is should we, the productive tax paying class continue to sustain these hell holes, I.e., Detroit, Chicago, or cut’em off and thereby force them to relocate? Personally, I’m thinking most of those with a modicum of ambition and self respect have already left these places. So, maybe it’s more cost effective to leave those who remain where they are. Call it tribute if you like. I know I don’t want them around me. Just saying....


47 posted on 02/23/2013 6:41:28 AM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

They can’t stabilize Alghanistan because of the rules of engagment use now....If we would fight to win and get the HXXX out we would save more lives...


48 posted on 02/23/2013 6:53:57 AM PST by rxtn41
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To: snoringbear
Hey fellow Bear! Agree with all you say. However, I’m not very hopefull that these festering cesspools will ever be turned around. So, the question is should we, the productive tax paying class continue to sustain these hell holes, I.e., Detroit, Chicago, or cut’em off and thereby force them to relocate?

I would wean them off.

First, take all the dozens of means-tested programs, and consolidate them under one program, called "welfare". The programs are spread out among a bunch of agencies to hide how much welfare spending there actually is.

Second, adopt a policy that welfare benefits WILL NOT be increased if a woman has additional kids.

Third, reduce welfare spending to the point where it's not at all worth it for a women to have kids in order to get benefits.

49 posted on 02/23/2013 7:33:20 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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