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The right’s intellectual inconsistency of the “round them up and send them home” argument
The Right Scoop ^ | January 27th, 2013 | Kemberlee Kaye

Posted on 01/27/2013 6:51:35 PM PST by walford

Well, it looks like we’re finally going to have a substantive immigration discussion. Unfortunately, immigration is one of many issues the right always handles poorly. Whether it’s lack of information, general ignorance of immigration laws or what, I really can’t say, nor do I care to speculate. The immigration issue is a big one, not just in terms of political capital, but in the nuances of the laws themselves. Interestingly, it’s also the one issue where Republicans and Democrats agree on most contentions.

Depending on which estimates you consult, there are approximately 11 million illegal immigrants currently residing in the U.S.; some suggest anywhere from 7 – 20 million. Regardless of which figure you choose, the fact remains: there’s a very sizable population of people living outside our legal barriers but inside our legal borders. And this is where the right, at large, loses their ever-lovin’ minds.

For being the party of limited government, the party that reveres the federalistic musings of Jefferson, and the party that constantly criticizes federal government overreach, our only suggestion for handling millions of illegal immigrants requires massive government intervention; massive government intervention that would encroach on the lives of private citizens to an extent we’ve never seen. So let’s entertain this idea for a moment.

Supposing we did “round ‘em up and send ‘em home,” we would need a police force large enough to scour all fifty states. This law enforcement troop would have to track people down, because we don’t know where they are, well, most of them anyway. It’s reasonable to assume that not everyone would go willingly, so there would likely be casualties or at the very least, violent encounters. And if intel was less than accurate (and we all know the government would never make a mistake), we could expect collateral damage, but I suppose a few wrongfully busted doors is nothing and no one will be upset about having their Super Bowl party busted up, Christmas Vacation style because of government error.

I’m not arguing we should toss out the rule of law. I’m not making the case that allowing further illegal immigration is acceptable, what I am saying is that “sending them home” is not only impractical, it’s completely contrary to everything we claim we believe. Unless we want a government expansive enough to round up what equates to the entire population of Pennsylvania, we need to provide practical solutions. We can debate the merits of Rubio’s ideas, come up with new ones, whatever, but let’s leave the intellectual inconsistency and nanny statism to the left. If we expect to win the war of ideas, we have to have good ones.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico
KEYWORDS: aliens; deportation; immigration
From my blog: http://natural-law-natural-religion.blogspot.com/2010/08/what-of-price-of-strawberries.html

...Elites in the Republican Party are complicit because they are beholden to commercial interests that are addicted to cheap, exploitable labor. Elites in the Democrat Party are complicit because they hope to buy their votes with taxpayer-funded benefits. Also a certain cadre welcomes the fact that these people come from places where questioning authority is hazardous to your health...

...Most Americans do not support mass deportation, but they don't support mass amnesty either. A far simpler and economical solution is to remove the incentives. All public assistance should be for U.S. citizens only. Neither should there be drivers licenses, in-state tuition [that actually favors illegals over legal immigrants and U.S. citizens living in other states] nor other rewards for violating our sovereignty. I invite anyone to review Mexico's immigration laws to see their hypocrisy when criticizing those of the United States.

1 posted on 01/27/2013 6:51:47 PM PST by walford
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To: walford
All they have is straw men.

Nobody says deport them.

Just stop giving them free stuff.

They'll deport themselves.

2 posted on 01/27/2013 6:54:44 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: walford
A far simpler and economical solution is to remove the incentives.

Better specifically include enforcing the law on both illegals and employers our our congresscritters will find another way to pander.
3 posted on 01/27/2013 6:56:37 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: walford

They can ALL be rounded up by small forces through attrition, every last one of them. You don’t have to get all of them at one time; that’s the biggest straw man argument ever and the amnesty crowd keeps bringing it back again and again. And there is precedent for a roundup and deport effort. It was called Operation Wetback, and took place in the 1950s.


4 posted on 01/27/2013 6:58:23 PM PST by Trod Upon (Civilian disarmament is the precursor to democide.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

And keep reminding republicans that if illegals stay, it will mean many new congressional districts and an inevitable growth of government that they claim to be trying to shrink.


5 posted on 01/27/2013 7:00:27 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: walford

It is very easy to make it so illegal aliens cannot get jobs and cannot get welfare...PLUS Give them $1000 and a free plane ticket home and they will GTFO (self-deport)

And build a fence and monitor and enforce all visas and those who seek to scam their way in here via visa overstaying as in permanently squatting here


6 posted on 01/27/2013 7:02:59 PM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Bingo. The solution to illegal immigration is the same as the solution to numerous other national problems: end proliferation of entitlements. Stop giving them a comfortable* life for free and they’ll either become productive or leave.

Immigration should be little more than screening for criminals and contagious diseases. Once here, ensure they understand they’re on their own. I welcome all who come in good faith to care for themselves and make their own way; if they’re not, they’ll find out the hard way in short order that their mere existence does not obligate others to support them.

“Round them up” requires the kind of government the Obama is trying to build: all knowing and all powerful. Don’t go there; don’t require IDs. “Where are your papers” is the key to totalitarianism, not freedom.

* - “comfortable” can entail very low standards, especially if someone else is footing the bill. Supporting a last chance safety net for the truly needy is very different.


7 posted on 01/27/2013 7:03:02 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
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To: Trod Upon
If we are only talking about 11 million Mexicans, we have to measure the prospect of each of them taking a trip to Mexico against the reality that in an average year there are 55,000,000 people who cross the Mexico/USA border.

Sending the illegals back home involves about 2 months worth off normal border traffic.

8 posted on 01/27/2013 7:04:47 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: walford

http://www.thepoliticaloperatives.com/kemberlee-kaye/

nolo contendre


9 posted on 01/27/2013 7:10:23 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: walford

One of the primary constitutional obligations of the national government is to protect the states from invasion.

Article IV, Section 4

“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.”

Just do it. Keep the oath.

Because a nation without borders is no longer a nation.

The article is shallow and sophomoric.


10 posted on 01/27/2013 7:13:29 PM PST by EternalVigilance ('Where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it.' Samuel Adams)
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To: cripplecreek

And if the illegals stay, it will mean the illegals will vote Democratic forever, and the Republicans will never win another election.


11 posted on 01/27/2013 7:21:02 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (The 2nd amendment is NOT about hunting-but protection from a tyrannical govt)
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To: walford

Any immigration reform that has a “path to citizenship” must be a path that requires self sufficiency meaning absolutely no reliance on government assistence for oneself or ones dependents before one can legally become a citizen and most importantly earn the right to vote. Let them apply for residency and work permits but we sure as hell don’t have to let them vote while they are dependent on the federal government. Also I believe that employers that employ these workers with work permits should face an additional tax if these workers take advantage of public assistance. I also think there should be a 10 year penalty for illegal immigrants before they can apply for full citizenship and earn voting rights. I’d also like to see an ammendment getting rid of anchor babies where children born to illegals become citizens automagically because one gives birth in the US versus Mexico. Citizenship should only be granted when at least one parent is a citizen. Currently that is not the case but it should be the case and we can’t have a full proof system till it is the case.

I’d also like to see a federal voter id requirement not just an employment id requirement. If we are going to be generous and open to granting residency permits and work permits we should know that these illegal immigrants aren’t stealing the votes of long standing citizens nor being used as near slave labor in place of citizens working for an honest wage. Right now I’d be happy with the 10 year penalty for coming here illegally and the self-sufficiency requirement for citizenship which I believe are more than reasonable requirements.

We also need strong enforcement. Anyone that tells you we can’t possibly processs 11 million illegal aliens are being intellectually dishonest. We process over 41 million speeding tickets and no one talks about the scale of that feat. Also no one talks about the several hundred million tax payers that Obamacare requires the healthcare insurance status be monitored so all the talk about the feasibility is smoke and mirrors. As enforcement increases we’d see a reduction of those cases that require enforcement. One of the reasons that so many come to the US is because of a long standing policy of partial and inconsistent enforcement. The last thing we want is to make illegal immigration not only easy but something that rewards those who commit what is without question a crime.

It would also be nice if we could deny all but emergency temporay access to public welfare programs. Also we should require that citizenship be verified not only at employers but by public service employees. If you can’t verify citizenship then it should be assumed someone is an illegal unless something indicates that is clearly not likely.

We need a hard fair system that doesn’t allow millions of wards of state to become citizens and voters in a forenight.


12 posted on 01/27/2013 7:22:16 PM PST by Maelstorm (You may not believe in the devil but he most certainly believes in you.)
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To: walford

It is hardly inconsistent- nobody has a right to come into your house without permission; likewise, nobody has a right to come into the US without permission. If invaders (that is the proper term for people who come in without permission) were met with maximum hostility and not given government handouts then we wouldn’t have a problem.


13 posted on 01/27/2013 7:23:39 PM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Wisconsinlady

We’ll be less than 20 years away from electing a president for life who prefers to be called “General”.


14 posted on 01/27/2013 7:25:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: walford
"Supposing we did “round ‘em up and send ‘em home,” we would need a police force large enough to scour all fifty states."

Gee...how about if you let local cops ask people their immigration status when they detain somebody for another charge?

15 posted on 01/27/2013 7:26:13 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Gee...how about if you let local cops ask people their immigration status when they detain somebody for another charge?

Well if a doctor can ask if I own a gun....
16 posted on 01/27/2013 7:29:11 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Maelstorm

The thing that pisses me off the most is the fact that the RINOs are joining in with the democrat tactic of overwhelming the public with issues so we won’t be able to fight them all.


17 posted on 01/27/2013 7:31:39 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: walford

When is the treatment of American citizens in Mexico and their rights vs US treatment of Mexicans going to be an issue when we discuss amnesty ?

Ever hear of reciprocal aggrements ? These are arranged to protect the rights of American citizens working or living in other countries.

Why is it when it comes to citizens of other countries we are required to offer them the same privledges as we do to US citizens? But when it comes to US citizens who get in trouble or attempt to do business in other countries they do not get the same treatment their citizens get.

Americans can’t own coast land in Mexico. And get no title to it elsewhere. If they run out of cash they’ll get unceremoniously sent back or put in jail untill some relative comes up with the “fresh”. That’s just for starters as for granting them voting privledges yea let’s give Mexican citizens that right when American citizens vote in their elections .


18 posted on 01/27/2013 7:31:57 PM PST by mosesdapoet (.Should this former Chicago "Mechanic" go out of retirement ?)
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19 posted on 01/27/2013 7:34:10 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: walford

I’m not worried so much about the current illegals as I am about incentives.

What we cannot do, if we want to fix the problem, is to create incentives for more to immigrate illegally. That’s where Reagan went wrong in 1986.

By dealing with the current immigrants via an amnesty, we created an incentive for millions more to come, expecting to eventually get an amnesty, themselves.

We need immigrants - but we need them to be legal. Any purported solution that creates incentives for more to enter illegally will only make the problem worse.


20 posted on 01/27/2013 7:39:33 PM PST by jdege
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; walford
The American Socialist Party (known to some as Democrats) are very clever. They rarely if ever attack the voters directly with their mad man schemes - there are too many of us, and the direct approach often turns out badly for them (think 1994 assault weapons ban, which was directed at businesses - it banned the future production of weapons, but didn't confiscate any of them. They paid for it because the individual voters rose up in mass and threw a bunch of them out). They pass the rules they want on businesses, because there are fewer of them, they don't directly vote, and they have more to lose.

Using their own approach, all we have to do is set up a useable version of eVerify, and fine employers $100,000 for each violation of the immigration law, and the illegal problem will melt away in weeks. That approach has the advantage of being anti-business, like Democrats always want, and it could potentially bring the revenue they want to create their Utopian state. Everybody wins (except they lose the huge pool of potential voters, which is their ultimate goal, as everyone with an IQ above room temperature knows).

21 posted on 01/27/2013 7:40:38 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
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To: Hardastarboard

The GOP also needs to learn to exploit the fractures among the very volatile factions in the democrat camp.


22 posted on 01/27/2013 7:48:56 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

True. No jobs, no welfare, no driver’s license, no healthcare. They all go home.


23 posted on 01/27/2013 8:00:13 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
” we would need a police force large enough to scour all fifty states."

About the same size as the forces needed to round up all the guns.

24 posted on 01/27/2013 8:02:29 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Soylent Green is Boomers)
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To: walford
For the left/elite (which means virtually everyone in the gov't and the press) intellectual dishonesty is one of the tools of politics.

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

They avoid the real issue of curruption and impact to the U.S. Citizen's income.

I read elsewhere that the Southern Border Patrol was corrupt itself, so Ike swapped the north contingent with the south... broke the political ties and successfully stopped the illegal immigration.

If they were being honest with us, this would be part of the discussion...
25 posted on 01/27/2013 8:08:55 PM PST by plsjr (<>< what mankind "knows" is by trial and error; only the CREATOR really knows)
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To: walford

Don’t need deportation.

No free stuff

No vote


26 posted on 01/27/2013 8:10:35 PM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to Dems and Obama is not a principle! Its just losing.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I’ve got enough problems getting into my gated community at night.


27 posted on 01/27/2013 8:30:24 PM PST by kenavi (Lost the country? Win your state.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I wanted to post there but wasn't interested in becoming a subscriber.

Your “round them up” idea is silly. Illegal aliens came here because of money. The “better life” so many people use as an excuse actually comes down to the fact that illegal aliens can make more money here than in China or Guatemala, or Nigeria, or Moldava. The easiest and fairest way to get illegal aliens to leave is to take their money. Strip them of all their assets, right down to their underwear. I don't mean to swoop down on them in the dead of night and deposit them naked across the border, but I do mean to seize all of their assets if they haven't left after a reasonable, but short, period of time. Americans don't care if foreigners legally have assets in the US, and kids born here are Americans, so distribution of assets and guardian care are acceptable, but after a reasonable time, 180 days say, if an illegal alien is caught in the US, then everything he or she owns belongs to the US government. You will see pickup trucks loaded with possessions crossing the border in no time.

28 posted on 01/27/2013 8:42:12 PM PST by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: cripplecreek

You forgot the part about there being only one name on the ballot and a 125% turnout.


29 posted on 01/27/2013 9:01:16 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: walford
...what I am saying is that “sending them home” is not only impractical, it’s completely contrary to everything we claim we believe. Unless we want a government expansive enough to round up what equates to the entire population of Pennsylvania, we need to provide practical solutions.

Actually what you are saying is BS. Enforce the laws and stop giving out government freebies to non citizen law breakers -the illegals will self deport. We do not NEED to provide anything. WE believe that government is NOT the great provider EVEN when it comes to 'practical solutions' to problems it created in the first place.

30 posted on 01/27/2013 10:56:41 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: walford
...what I am saying is that “sending them home” is not only impractical, it’s completely contrary to everything we claim we believe. Unless we want a government expansive enough to round up what equates to the entire population of Pennsylvania, we need to provide practical solutions.

Actually what you are saying is BS. Enforce the laws and stop giving out government freebies to non citizen law breakers -the illegals will self deport. We do not NEED to provide anything. WE believe that government is NOT the great provider EVEN when it comes to 'practical solutions' to problems it created in the first place.

31 posted on 01/27/2013 10:58:13 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: walford

That article has a patently false central theme. History shows us that quite the opposite is the case, it’s been done effectively before.

Simple: start enforcing the laws, and the criminals will high-tail it out of here. It’s been done before with good results. Eisenhower’s politically-correct named immigration operation has already been cited.

What’s more, 50%+ of this nation’s hispanic population resides in just 3 states. It wouldn’t take a national police force or military intervention in all fifty states. Hell, it probably wouldn’t take more than the ICE actually bothering to enforce the goddamned laws in the first place.


32 posted on 01/28/2013 12:10:51 AM PST by jameslalor
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To: walford

According to the Pew Hispanic Center:

(1) First generation Hispanics vote 80% for the Democrat Party.

(2) Fourth generation Hispanics vote 60% for the Democrat Party.


33 posted on 01/28/2013 12:44:27 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: walford

Anything that is not 100% deportation is Amnesty.

Instead of making clever excuses to keep illegal aliens here....energy should be focused on sending them home


34 posted on 01/28/2013 1:45:55 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (GOP = Greenlighting Obama's Programs)
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To: VanShuyten

“I wanted to post there but wasn’t interested in becoming a subscriber.”

I posted by signing in using my Facebook profile. No need to become a subscriber.


35 posted on 01/28/2013 6:28:59 AM PST by walford (http://natural-law-natural-religion.blogspot.com/)
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To: walford
You are saying that we should not deal with invasion because government will get big? Wally, in the real world, Illegal aliens grow government. The use benefits. If not them , they spawn anchors who do and then they get benefits. They commit multiple crimes.

The only question is, do you love America, or will you betray it for your self righteousness and utopian idea that exists only in a thought experiment
36 posted on 01/30/2013 12:45:37 AM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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