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Holder begins gun-control push
The Hill ^ | 1/25/2013 | Megan R. Wilson

Posted on 01/25/2013 10:28:34 AM PST by xtinct

The Justice Department is taking the first steps toward carrying out President Obama’s executive actions on gun control.

Attorney General Eric Holder on Friday released three proposals to strengthen the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which was one of the 23 actions ordered by Obama last week to tackle gun violence.

The proposed regulations would give local law-enforcement agencies access to the gun-sale database that is maintained by the FBI. The rules would also preserve records of denied weapons sales indefinitely.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/pending-regs/279345-holder-begins-gun-control-push#ixzz2J0rAP551 Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 113th; agenda; banglist; bho44; bhodoj; domesticenemy; fastanddeliberate; fastandfurious; guncontrol; holder; rkba; secondamendment
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1 posted on 01/25/2013 10:28:40 AM PST by xtinct
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To: xtinct

“gun-sale database that is maintained by the FBI”

WTF does THAT mean?

Record of Denials only?


2 posted on 01/25/2013 10:32:27 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: xtinct

Begins, Begins....

He has been doing it his entire career, except of course when sending guns to mexico...


3 posted on 01/25/2013 10:32:34 AM PST by GraceG
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To: xtinct

It will not stop. They will “try” to take your Guns, It is time....

Molon Labe

When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson


4 posted on 01/25/2013 10:32:56 AM PST by EXCH54FE (Hurricane 416)
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To: xtinct

Where is the instant database to check for illegals?


5 posted on 01/25/2013 10:39:15 AM PST by JPG (Stay strong.)
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To: xtinct
The proposed regulations would give local law-enforcement agencies access to the gun-sale database that is maintained by the FBI. The rules would also preserve records of denied weapons sales indefinitely.

If I recall correctly, the above statement means that the so called "justice department" is in violation of federal law by keeping such records. The FOPA of 1986 specifically OUTLAWED the FBI or any other federal agency from keeping such records.

If they have such a database, the congress needs to subpoena records from that database immediately, and find out who authorized the creation of said ILLEGAL registry of gun owners.

But the Obama regime breaking laws should not really surprise anyone, given the sheer number of laws broken by Obama and his minions since he took office.

Mark

6 posted on 01/25/2013 10:40:02 AM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: GraceG
He has been doing it his entire career, except of course when sending guns to mexico...

Exactly. I bet these Orders and the steps to follow after the Orders were given have been laid out SINCE Fast and Furious since all of what they are doing now is what they hoped they could have pulled off with the guns flowing to Mexico!
7 posted on 01/25/2013 10:40:28 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Be the Enemy Within the Enemy Within...)
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To: xtinct

Is that the Gun Sale Database from NICs that is expressly forbidden by previous legilsation?


8 posted on 01/25/2013 10:43:13 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: G Larry

I’m just guessing but when ATF goes into a gun store and copies all of the 4473 forms they are permanently saved in a database somewhere along with any pre-sales checks. Surely the ATF wouldn’t be stupid enough to throw all that power away just to comply with the law.

There are probably a lot of holes in the database but everyone would eventually turn up buy buying Ammo, or various parts and accessories with a credit card.

They would just go directly to the credit card company and get their freak on. They don’t need to know you bought an AR-15. They know you bought 5 Magpul magazines and 500rds of .223.


9 posted on 01/25/2013 10:47:21 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: xtinct
So, it starts
10 posted on 01/25/2013 10:49:10 AM PST by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance........)
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To: MarkL
the congress needs to subpoena records from that database immediately

Good luck with that. I've been melting down the phones of my reps in DC, and they're either not answering or are responding that they are "looking into every option available."

These "representatives" view themselves as law makers. I wouldn't count on them actually enforcing the laws.

The liberals are FRANTIC to get gun control passed, because they know good and damn well that the Obamacare mandates are going to go into full swing in January of 2014, and the amount of civil unrest that will be born from that is going to be absolutely historic.

11 posted on 01/25/2013 10:49:46 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: MarkL
the congress needs to subpoena records from that database immediately

Good luck with that. I've been melting down the phones of my reps in DC, and they're either not answering or are responding that they are "looking into every option available."

These "representatives" view themselves as law makers. I wouldn't count on them actually enforcing the laws.

The liberals are FRANTIC to get gun control passed, because they know good and damn well that the Obamacare mandates are going to go into full swing in January of 2014, and the amount of civil unrest that will be born from that is going to be absolutely historic.

12 posted on 01/25/2013 10:50:13 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: MarkL
...If I recall correctly, the above statement means that the so called "justice department" is in violation of federal law by keeping such records. The FOPA of 1986 specifically OUTLAWED the FBI or any other federal agency from keeping such records...

What Holder is proposing is illegal. Holder is sending the message that he and Obama are above the law.

13 posted on 01/25/2013 10:51:08 AM PST by 444Flyer (Obama killed the Twinkie, but not the terrorists in Benghazi. What's wrong with this picture?)
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To: xtinct

So legislative branch is rendered useless.

The Feinstein/Biden show is for distraction only.


14 posted on 01/25/2013 10:52:45 AM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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Holder's also sending the message that they know who you are, where you are and how to find you. Should Americans consider this a veiled threat?
15 posted on 01/25/2013 10:55:54 AM PST by 444Flyer (Obama killed the Twinkie, but not the terrorists in Benghazi. What's wrong with this picture?)
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To: xtinct

whatever happened to these politicians or office holders “defending the constitution of the United States of America?”


16 posted on 01/25/2013 10:56:03 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: xtinct

Sandy Hook is giving these enemies of the Second Amendment the boost they didn’t get from their Fast and Furious plan. They are capitalizing on the death of 20 six-year-olds, much more effective than the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans.

These are evil people.


17 posted on 01/25/2013 10:56:21 AM PST by txrefugee
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*


18 posted on 01/25/2013 10:58:54 AM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: EXCH54FE
It will not stop. They will “try” to take your Guns

For those who say registration does not lead to confiscation, I introduce as evidence to the contrary California Assembly Bill 174.

AB 174, as introduced, Bonta. Weapons: grandfather clauses.
Existing law prohibits the possession of various weapons. Under existing law, certain of these bans exempted from their scope weapons that were possessed prior to the ban, if prescribed conditions met, are authorized.
This bill would declare the intent of the Legislature to subsequently amend this bill to include provisions that would end all of those exemptions.
Digest KeyVote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: NO Local Program: NO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Text

The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

SECTION 1. Under current law, certain banned weapons are permitted under various “grandfathering in” clauses. It is the intent of the Legislature to subsequently amend this measure to include provisions that would end all of those exemptions.

So all you cats who registered your "assault weapons" back in the day now lose them. And those of you with "bullet buttons," well Leland Yee is grabbing for them with SB 47.

And to all you people in the free states (especially the punks in Rochester NY - you know who you are) who make fun of us, leave California gun owners twisting in the wind and put "NO SALES TO CALIFORNIA!" on your gunbroker ads, even for perfectly legal stuff. What goes around comes around and part of me (a very tiny part) hopes that you enjoy your taste of tyranny. Remember they have an absolute majority in CA and test drive all this crap here before trotting it out on the national stage.

19 posted on 01/25/2013 11:12:05 AM PST by atomic_dog
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To: xtinct

Except for firearms given to and/or sold to Mexican drug cartels; unlie merican citizens with their constitutional protections, Holder doesn’t mind at all seeing them provided the very latest.


20 posted on 01/25/2013 11:18:42 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Let’s slow down here....

As far as I am aware, TODAY, the ATF does NOT “copy all of the 4473’s”.

They are simply “available for inspection”.

As far as potential FUTURE intrusions, into credit card purchases, the Visa records simply indicate a purchase total at a given vendor. It DOES NOT itemize the products.
I happen to have a particular store receipt that reads “General Merchandise”.

The point I’m making is that I want to make sure we know what they ARE doing now, so we will all see the RED FLAG when they start snooping further.


21 posted on 01/25/2013 11:20:56 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: 444Flyer

“Should Americans consider this a veiled threat?”

Yes.

I consider everything about those traitors a threat.


22 posted on 01/25/2013 11:21:59 AM PST by Gator113 (Leave my guns alone and REGISTER THE DAMN LIBERALS!!)
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To: G Larry

Want to buy a bridge? Got one for sale.


23 posted on 01/25/2013 11:22:30 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: G Larry

One thing is for certain, if they want to look at your non cash purchase history it is there for the taking. Cops do it all the time.


24 posted on 01/25/2013 11:24:50 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: xtinct

2nd Amendment bump for later......


25 posted on 01/25/2013 11:33:31 AM PST by indthkr
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


26 posted on 01/25/2013 11:35:40 AM PST by Nachum (The Obama "List" at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

On an individual basis!

NOT tracing MILLIONS of buyers!


27 posted on 01/25/2013 11:38:25 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: xtinct

Might I suggest that Herr Holder start in Mexico?, that way he could clean up his mess since he is one of the biggest gun smugglers in the world. And as far as their illegal data base idea, that’s just the way this administration rolls. Dictators and Monarchs don’t have rules, those are for the peons.


28 posted on 01/25/2013 11:39:10 AM PST by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: G Larry

I am good friends w/ a gun store owner and he tells me that during annual inspections the ATF would come w/ a copy machine. Then would then copy 4473s mostly which listed non-PC guns. I think they were mostly focused on ARs/AKs and the like. He said they backed off some when he pointed some of his store security cams at their table. Initially they wanted to use his copy machine. He had no idea what they did w/ the copies but had his suspicions. So it does occur.


29 posted on 01/25/2013 11:39:42 AM PST by 556x45
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To: JPG

Where is the instant database to check for illegals?

Don’t be silly that would not only be racist but also cut into the Democrat’s voter base.


30 posted on 01/25/2013 11:40:44 AM PST by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: 556x45

Ok, that’s for store sales.

What about when buying via GunBroker.com and you’re just using that store’s FFL?


31 posted on 01/25/2013 11:44:22 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: 444Flyer
Should Americans consider this a veiled threat?

Its harder and harder to find the veil.

32 posted on 01/25/2013 11:45:25 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: JPG
Where is the instant database to check for illegals?

Exactly! And for the welfare scammers.

Oh, right...those databases don't exist. What difference does it make?

33 posted on 01/25/2013 11:47:24 AM PST by Jane Long
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To: G Larry

Its not different, a 4473 is created...which the ATF would look at. My son works at a gun store and theres no differentiating of 4473s there. They’re organized by date in the file cabinet. Theyre also input to a computer database (ATF approved) and that can be searched in a number of ways.


34 posted on 01/25/2013 11:52:12 AM PST by 556x45
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To: JPG

> Where is the instant database to check for illegals?

If that existed and was properly used Obama wouldn’t be president.


35 posted on 01/25/2013 11:53:34 AM PST by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: Jane Long

Fopa

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

Note * “Firearms Transactions” it could be argued that if no transfer took place then there was no transaction. Its twisting the plain meaning of of the law but that is nothing new.

O


36 posted on 01/25/2013 11:59:49 AM PST by Bidimus1
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To: G Larry

The same records are kept by your FFL dealer as if he had sold you the firearm. To do a dealer transfer, he must book the firearm into his inventory and back out to you. GunBroker.com was never a loophole except in the mind of the lying commies.


37 posted on 01/25/2013 12:30:36 PM PST by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: Travis McGee
Good afternoon.

Would you kindly put me on your CWII ping list?

5.56mm

38 posted on 01/25/2013 12:46:15 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: G Larry

All the detail is out there for millions of buyers. All they have to do is begin consolidating and focusing in on various buying patterns. That’s exactly what Data Mining is all about. It may take months but they can find everyone who bought .223 ammo.

Another example would be Facebook. They now can scan pictures loaded into a facebook, and with facial recognition, link each person in the picture into a network of friends and known associates. If they have that kind of computing power at their disposal a parsing simple invoice over email is piece of cake.

NSA now stores all emails in a monster database. They can easily triangulate on emails from Midway USA or Cheaper than dirt as a starting point.


39 posted on 01/25/2013 12:56:23 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: G Larry
“. . .give local law-enforcement agencies access to the gun-sale database that is maintained by the FBI.”

Obviously that means the DOJ is now openly admitting there are semi-secret, illegal databases of gun, ammunition, and accoutrement sales. The information has likely been captured by various various agencies using sundry methods. They are saying the FBI maintains the information.

The corollary of that admission is a threat to use the database for various and sundry purposes.

40 posted on 01/25/2013 12:59:13 PM PST by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: G Larry
the Visa records simply indicate a purchase total at a given vendor. It DOES NOT itemize the products.

Then how was Mastercard able to verify the UPC of an item for which I filed a dispute? It is possible they retrieved an electronic copy of the receipt from the retailer AFTER I filed the dispute but it evidently WAS available.

41 posted on 01/25/2013 12:59:18 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: G Larry
CORRECT: Refuse, deny, delay, obstruct, sabotage any and all efforts of obozo to destroy the Constitution, Freedom and Liberty. Be creative as to what you need to do to get what you need. Go underground, join with like-minded groups for ideas, strategy, etc.

Do what the freedom fighters of wars past did..read up on them and then get going.

42 posted on 01/25/2013 1:00:28 PM PST by itssme
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To: steve86

I didn’t say “untraceable”.

But there’s a big difference between starting with you and the vendor, and YOU being just 1 pill in a jar of 300 Million.


43 posted on 01/25/2013 1:18:51 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: xtinct

Eric Holder should be arrested for Treason and Sedition for his actions that are in direct conflict with the Second Amendment and his overseeing of a program that involved multiple Federal Agents committing Numerous Felonies including but not limited to:

Eric Holder Created or was involved in a Conspiracy to turn public and Congressial support against Personal Ownership of Firearms that involved the President of the United States, Dept. Of Justice, ATF, Homeland Security and others by selling banned firearms to known Mexican Cartel Members and other criminal elements that caused the deaths of at least 300 mexican Nationals.

Eric Holder Willfully lied to Questions sent to him from Sitting US Senators and Members of the US House of Representatives conserning the scheme known as “Fast and Furious”.

His agents Failure to follow federal law regarding the tranfer of Firearms.

Agents under his Authority used false addressses on federal Firearm Transfer forms.

Agents under his Authority approved selling Firearms to KNOWN criminal elements.

Agents under his authority attempted the framing a federal agent to conceal illegal activities of their own and the MURDER of Two Federal Agents.

Eric Holder convinced the President of the United States to claim Executive Privilage to hide information and evidence of a criminal enterprise that he knows is NOT covered under that statute.


44 posted on 01/25/2013 1:56:02 PM PST by VRWCarea51
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To: Dead Corpse; Nachum; MestaMachine; marktwain; neverdem; Joe Brower

45 posted on 01/25/2013 2:56:54 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

46 posted on 01/25/2013 2:58:56 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: M Kehoe; Jack Black

Jack Black updates the CW2 list.

It gets to complicated when they diverge if we have multiple list updaters.


47 posted on 01/25/2013 3:00:46 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee; Jack Black

I’d like to be on the CWII ping list as well.

Hugh


48 posted on 01/25/2013 3:31:29 PM PST by Hugh the Scot
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To: Travis McGee; Jack Black
Jack Black updates the CW2 list.

If Mr. Black's last name is Kehoe, we are related...he's my uncle (deceased).

Uncle, please add me to the CWII ping list.

5.56mm

49 posted on 01/25/2013 6:35:19 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: EXCH54FE

And we resist by the ballot box. Work the election and throw the gun-grabbers out. Anything else is foolish.

They’re waiting for some “right-winger” to flip out and start shooting. The media itself is to blame for most of these mass shootings. The only correlation between the shooters is a desire for notariety. They want to be front page news.


50 posted on 01/26/2013 4:05:22 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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