Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

NYPD to Receive 'T-Ray' Vision to Detect Concealed Firearms
Arutz Sheva - Israel National News ^ | 1/25/2013, 1:15 AM | Rachel Hirshfeld

Posted on 01/24/2013 5:26:22 PM PST by haffast

The New York Police Department is testing a new device that can detect firearms concealed beneath layers of clothing.

Dubbed “T-Ray,” the machine detects terahertz radiation, a high-frequency electromagnetic natural energy that is emitted by people. It also detects the presence of hidden metal from a distance, The Wall Street Journal reported.

snip

The boxy machine can be hidden in a vehicle, allowing officers to discreetly scan their target and may provide an alternative to the NYPD's reliance on the controversial tactic of stop-and-frisk, where officers routinely search large numbers of men in high-crime areas, AFP reported.

snip

The program is being paid for by the U.S. Department of Defense, said Browne, who described the machine as a "multimillion” dollar device, although he wouldn't specify its cost.

snip

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; bloodoftyrants; govtabuse; guncontrol; guns; possecomitatus; possecomitatusact; secondamendment; tyranny; waronliberty
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last
"Critics said the T-Ray search raises privacy concerns and fears over so-called false positives, whereby an object on a person's body could be misread to be a weapon."

Got a plate and pins holding your assets together? Be prepared to say hello to your new friends in NYC.

1 posted on 01/24/2013 5:26:28 PM PST by haffast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: haffast

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


2 posted on 01/24/2013 5:30:09 PM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: haffast

How is this a legal search?


3 posted on 01/24/2013 5:30:16 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: haffast

Any law in NYC against carrying a pair of vice grips in a jacket pocket? Nothing makes it worthless faster than a few hundred thousand false positives.


4 posted on 01/24/2013 5:30:32 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: haffast

Didn’t Superman live in New York? Why not have Bloomturd hire him instead. Wouldn’t have to pay him. He could work 24/7, and he wouldn’t have to carry a 5 shot gun.

Wait till the first guy gets his Johnson and nuts fried off.


5 posted on 01/24/2013 5:30:54 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

i don’t believe it is.

they will argue it’s akin to a cop driving in a parking lot scanning plates for possible offenders.


6 posted on 01/24/2013 5:34:53 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: haffast

Interesting that DOD is providing this.


7 posted on 01/24/2013 5:36:05 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conscience of a Conservative
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Bump.

8 posted on 01/24/2013 5:38:16 PM PST by EternalVigilance ('Where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it.' Samuel Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man

License plates are meant to be seen.

CCW items are not.....


9 posted on 01/24/2013 5:43:59 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
NYC's "Stop And Frisk" policy isn't a legal search, but there's no meaningful legal challenges to it.

From a recent New York Times poll (August 2012), most NYC residents are in favor of the "Stop And Frisk" policy although most of them think it unfairly targets minorities. Moreover, and overwhelming majority believes that the NYPD favors whites over all other ethnic groups.

However, most people in NYC -- including minorities -- believe that the NYPD handles race relations appropriately and that both the mayor and the police commissioner have both positive approval ratings and race relations approval numbers.

Conclusion: Statistics show overwhelming odds are that if you're a New York City resident, you're essentially a F&*#ing idiot.

10 posted on 01/24/2013 5:44:23 PM PST by The KG9 Kid (Bring back the booby hatches.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: haffast
a high-frequency electromagnetic natural energy

Pray tell, what frequency are we talking about here, just innocently asking.

11 posted on 01/24/2013 5:48:50 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The KG9 Kid

Amazing how people can be conditioned.


12 posted on 01/24/2013 5:54:07 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: The Cajun

Would you believe frequencies near 1 THz ( = 10^12 cycles/second)? Which is why they are called terahertz rays? They are in between far infrared and microwave frequencies, having submillimeter wavelengths.


13 posted on 01/24/2013 6:00:18 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: EternalVigilance

Use of thermal imagers to detect grow operations was thrown out by the Supreme Court. I would expect the same here.


14 posted on 01/24/2013 6:01:46 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man
they will argue it’s akin to a cop driving in a parking lot scanning plates for possible offenders.

More like using microwave radar to look inside the trunks.

15 posted on 01/24/2013 6:02:00 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Couple thoughts-

1. A lot of frog-in-the-pot stuff is going on now, while everyone is pretty much paying attention to other stuff (think sleight-of hand).

2. Chainmail needs to make a comeback.


16 posted on 01/24/2013 6:02:33 PM PST by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Do you mean, interesting as in the Posse Comitatus act prohibiting use of military methods for domestic law enforcement purposes?


17 posted on 01/24/2013 6:03:23 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

No way it is legal. Terry v. Ohio is pretty clear when an officer can search a person for a weapon. They can’t claim plain view because they are using equipment to see where they can’t normally. But, in this day and age, it is a toss up whether the courts will uphold the 4th amendment.


18 posted on 01/24/2013 6:04:14 PM PST by Yogafist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: haffast

I wonder how long it will take some bright boy to design a devise that can both detect and confuse the police device. The best would be false positives all over the place.


19 posted on 01/24/2013 6:04:34 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Cajun

“terahertz radiation, a high-frequency electromagnetic natural energy”

I did a google and there isn’t much definitive about it but it supposedly is less dangerous then x-rays.


20 posted on 01/24/2013 6:09:59 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
Yup, I knew they were somewhere in the THz range, but was wondering what particular frequency or band of frequencies in the THz range they were looking at.
Wouldn't want any interference on those frequencies :)
Was also wondering if it is strictly passive or are they looking for some type of resonance associated with a THz signal they generate......Just wondering again.
21 posted on 01/24/2013 6:10:21 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: coloradan

There’s that angle but its kinda scary that someone in the DOD is pushing more and more military technology into police departments.


22 posted on 01/24/2013 6:13:29 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
I did a google and there isn’t much definitive about it but it supposedly is less dangerous then x-rays.

Let's hope so, since our bodies are emitting them.

23 posted on 01/24/2013 6:14:19 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: palmer

Sure, but I also can’t find any information on whether this device transmits them or just receives.


24 posted on 01/24/2013 6:15:57 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: The Cajun

There exist both passive and active devices. People are warm and emit T-rays merely by being blackbody radiators, whereas a colder gun doesn’t emit so many themselves, and possibly also reflects the less-intense T-rays coming from the sidewalk and surroundings. In which case the gun looks dark. They go through clothes. Active sensors are basically like radars, looking for reflections from metal, in which case guns would look bright. Then again, if you had a bunch of aluminum-foil silhouettes peppered about your undershirt and pants, you could probably detect the car with such a sensor in either case, because the occupants of said car would probably really, really, want to talk to you.


25 posted on 01/24/2013 6:20:40 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Well if the whole body emits them, then they could do a 2-d scan and look for blockages like the metal gun absorbing them. It’s basically some sort of infrared radiation.


26 posted on 01/24/2013 6:20:40 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
occupants of said car would probably really, really, want to talk to you.

Ya think, LOL.

Retired electronic tech, just wondering about the technology, haven't done much reading about it or it's present sophistication.
Think I read something about a new type of wi/fi using frequencies in the THz range.

27 posted on 01/24/2013 6:31:36 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Yogafist
"But, in this day and age, it is a toss up whether the courts will uphold the 4th amendment"

BTTT!
28 posted on 01/24/2013 6:42:00 PM PST by CowboyJay (Lowest Common Denominator 2012 - because liberty and prosperity were overrated)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver; The Cajun; Conscience of a Conservative; muir_redwoods; MadMax, the Grinning Reaper; ...

It’s a passive system, it doesn’t emit radiation, it receives radiation given off naturally by the body:

NYPD testing scanners to reveal concealed guns - 1-19-2013
http://www.policeone.com/police-products/tactical/infrared/articles/4963686-NYPD-testing-scanners-to-reveal-concealed-guns/

Animation demonstrating operation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R5taL-Xxxpw

Note dates...advance in a year’s time:

NYPD Developing Body Scanners to Detect Weapons, But Application May Still Be Years Away -01/18/2012 -
http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/nypd-developing-body-scanners-detect-weapons-application-may-still-be-years-away-009422

NYPD, Feds Testing Gun-Scanning Technology, But Civil Liberties Groups Up In Arms - 1-17-2012
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/17/nypd-testing-gun-scanning-technology/

On the market now:

WG Passive Terahertz Body Scanner
http://www.wi-ltd.com/security/Scanning_and_Screening/X_Ray_and_Screening_Systems/People_Scanners/WG_Body_Passive_Terahertz_Scanner


29 posted on 01/24/2013 6:44:15 PM PST by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: haffast

What do they need those for? Isn’t NY a gun free city?


30 posted on 01/24/2013 7:41:58 PM PST by crosshairs (All we are saying, is give a high cap piece a chance.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muir_redwoods
"Any law in NYC against carrying a pair of vice grips in a jacket pocket? Nothing makes it worthless faster than a few hundred thousand false positives."

lol

My thoughts exactly, although the first thing I thought of for some reason was a crescent wrench!

Illegal search and seizure, without any question.

31 posted on 01/24/2013 8:24:22 PM PST by precisionshootist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
"How is this a legal search?"

I would contend it's a violation of the Fourth Amendment, but I can tell you how the argument will be made. The article states, "Dubbed “T-Ray,” the machine detects terahertz radiation, a high-frequency electromagnetic natural energy that is emitted by people."

It will be argued that they're not searching people or their persons, but the radiation they are emitting into the surrounding environs.

It's like a narc detector dog doesn't search your wall locker or car, but rather, "the air around it."

32 posted on 01/24/2013 8:31:14 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

[[ “terahertz radiation, a high-frequency electromagnetic natural energy”
I did a google and there isn’t much definitive about it but it supposedly is less dangerous then x-rays. ]]

You’re misunderstanding how this works.

The device the police will use emits no radiation or energy _towards_ the subject at whom it’s being pointed.

It merely detects energy that is being radiated by the person. Hence, “electromagnetic NATURAL energy”.

The purpose is to bypass the the Constitutional protection of [unreasonable] search without reasonable suspicion. There is no “search”, per se (as there would be if the device in question transmitted a of signal _toward_ the subject, which would strike the subject and then be reflected back to the device for analysis.

Instead, the new device becomes a “passive observer” of something emitted by the individual subject (in this case, natural emissions given off by the human body). Just as a police officer who observed someone doing an illegal activity (such as breaking into a car) would have “probable cause” to apprehend the suspect, the terahertz scanner “observes” in its own way, and when it indicates to the officer that something “gun-like” is being carried by the individual, probable cause now exists to question the individual about same.

This is the rationale you will hear when the legality of these devices is argued in court.


33 posted on 01/24/2013 8:38:15 PM PST by Road Glide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: haffast

Disarming residents of democrat voting districts is the surest way to drastically lower gun crime.


34 posted on 01/24/2013 9:09:07 PM PST by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conscience of a Conservative

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Yeah, right, whatever!/sarcasm;)


35 posted on 01/24/2013 9:20:50 PM PST by Frank_2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: haffast

Just another reason to avoid the city. If I ever have to go to NYC and have any contact with the NY”PD” I will demand a lawyer. I know several retired cops. I do not consider the NYPD to be a professional trained police force.


36 posted on 01/24/2013 9:51:16 PM PST by matt04
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: haffast
NYPD to Receive 'T-Ray' Vision to Detect Concealed Firearms 32 oz. soft drinks.

Fixed.

37 posted on 01/24/2013 9:59:00 PM PST by QT3.14
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: One Name
2. Chainmail needs to make a comeback.

Magic +3 Chainmail and broadswords. Roll for initiative...

38 posted on 01/24/2013 10:47:04 PM PST by Lexinom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: haffast

This is what happens when you abandon the Constitution for liberalism. You lose rights to a well-intentioned nanny state.


39 posted on 01/25/2013 4:13:20 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

It makes perfect sense. The cops can work out all the bugs. They have a see thru wall type of sensor that works like radar. It’s supposed to be used in hostage situations and works a lot better than heat sensors because you can spot weapons.

This came about because of Iraq (heck the whole Middle East) where a lot of the dwellings have concrete walls surrounding them. Thermal sensors are useless in that type of scenario.


40 posted on 01/25/2013 4:58:13 AM PST by USAF80
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: haffast

NYPD places full body scanners on the streets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58icxdTpkSg

The way to defeat this is for everyone to carry a wooden pistol.


41 posted on 01/25/2013 5:53:56 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

So DoD is taking part in law enforcement... How is that legal?


42 posted on 01/25/2013 6:49:50 AM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

Wrap it in aluminum foil and you might have something there... but the subjects of NYC will never do it.


43 posted on 01/25/2013 7:24:38 AM PST by messierhunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: muir_redwoods

Or a big belt buckle. False positives is the way to get the devices rmoved. Someone else just looking to make billions selling the device to police departments all across the country. It’s not about protecting “the people” anymore than Oprah being serious about losing weight...lol


44 posted on 01/25/2013 7:35:17 AM PST by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: coloradan

> Use of thermal imagers to detect grow operations was thrown out by the Supreme Court. I would expect the same here.

You forget O has “files” on all of the supreme ourt judges and will blackmail them in a New York minute.


45 posted on 01/25/2013 7:38:38 AM PST by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Road Glide
The purpose is to bypass the the Constitutional protection of [unreasonable] search without reasonable suspicion. There is no “search”, per se (as there would be if the device in question transmitted a of signal _toward_ the subject, which would strike the subject and then be reflected back to the device for analysis.

If that were the case then a camera could be implanted in every house w/o the owner's consent because the camera only detects light emissions [and reflections] from other sources.

46 posted on 01/25/2013 7:45:44 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Lexinom
>> 2. Chainmail needs to make a comeback.
>
> Magic +3 Chainmail and broadswords. Roll for initiative...

Well, if we can get 3d printing down fine enough we could have the links be (a) without seam, (b) made of interesting alloys, and possibly (c) constructed in such a way as to be fairly bullet proof/resistant.

To the people of a couple hundred years ago, it would be magic chainmail.

47 posted on 01/25/2013 7:51:43 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Conscience of a Conservative

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

BUMP


48 posted on 01/25/2013 8:04:28 AM PST by Amigo04
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

“If that were the case then a camera could be implanted in every house w/o the owner’s consent because the camera only detects light emissions [and reflections] from other sources.”

No, absolutely not.

Because the act of physically placing the camera would become “the intrusion”. Same as the police secretly placing GPS devices on some cars to track the location of the owners without a court order. Good chance that it will be invalidated later on.

Are there not cases of the police using infrared sensors to identify homes where marijuana is being grown under high-intensity lighting? No “active device” is being used here (i.e., something that sends a signal into the house, then reads the result), just “passive monitoring” of energy being generated from within the dwellings.

BIG difference legally.

Take this a step further with the “terahertz detector”, which passively monitors energy being radiated by one’s person.

I’m not any happier about this than you are.
But this is the future that’s coming...


49 posted on 01/25/2013 8:34:33 AM PST by Road Glide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: precisionshootist; muir_redwoods

“...carrying a pair of vice grips in a jacket pocket?...”

I’m liking that too. ANY heavy metal tool. Plus, it’s a hell of a striking weapon if you need it.

No one EVER has to be totally disarmed...we’re Americans... Ingenuity is one of our best assets.

Any way you can fight back, you should.

It’s a moral imperative.


50 posted on 01/25/2013 9:33:22 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson