Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: MamaTexan
The original intent of the Constitution was that it was a treaty drawn up under the Law of Nature and Nations by Vattel, who repeated the words of a great many philosophers like Aquinas.

The purpose of the Federal Convention was to frame a government sufficient to the objects of a free people. The Constitution is not a treaty or series of treaties, as the Articles of Confederation were. Vattel was one of several philosophers reference by the Framers; Locke and Montesquieu were the most notable as demonstrated by the government they proposed.

The elements of good government were already known to the Framers of 1787; no deep philosophical debate as to what constituted good government was necessary. States had over twenty years since the Stamp Act to think about the successes and failures of their various State constitutions. Convention delegates had plenty of practical experience and put them to paper, despite lingering deep suspicions and factions.

The People, through their Representatives of the American States.

Not accurate. The States held special elections for delegates to the ratifying conventions. To say representatives of the states is to mean the States in their corporate capacities, i.e. legislatures.

I don't imagine they EVER thought the People would forget that they are inherently superior to government.

Quite right, and certainly not to extent we have.

13 posted on 01/18/2013 9:48:55 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]


To: Jacquerie
The Constitution is not a treaty or series of treaties, as the Articles of Confederation were.

Yes, it is.

And in this case, he adds, the confederate states engage to each other only to exercise with common consent, certain parts of the sovereignty, especially those which relate to their mutual defense, against foreign enemies. But each of the confederates retains an entire liberty of exercising as it thinks proper, those parts of the sovereignty, which are not mentioned in the treaty of union, as parts that ought to be exercised in common. And of this nature is the American confederacy, in which each state has resigned the exercise of certain parts of the supreme civil power which they possessed before (except in common with the other states included in the confederacy) reserving to themselves all their former powers, which are not delegated to the United States by the common bond of union.
Of the Several Forms of Government, St. George Tucker, View of the Constitution of the United States [1803] Section XII

"The obvious deductions, which may be, and indeed have been drawn, from considering the Constitution as a Compact between the States, are, that it operates as a mere treaty, or convention between them, and has an obligatory force upon each State no longer than it suits its pleasure, or its consent continues;
Story on the Constitution, vol. I, Book 3, Sec. 321 [page 499]
A Constitutional View of the Late War Between the States1868

-----

Vattel was one of several philosophers reference by the Framers; Locke and Montesquieu were the most notable as demonstrated by the government they proposed.

True, the Founders quoted them all, but only Vattel's work was viewed as worthy enough for public monies to be spent in order to purchase copies for use in government

Ordered, That the Secretary purchase Blackstone's Commentaries, and Vattel's Law of Nature and Nations, for the use of the Senate.
[sorry - Library of Congress disables links]
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsj&fileName=002/llsj002.db&recNum=42&itemLink=D?hlaw:13:./temp/~ammem_LF5V::%230020043&linkText=1

Not that the Founders weren't using Vattel before then-

I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly, that copy which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the college of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author. Your manuscript Idee sur le gouvernment et la royauté, is also well relished, and may, in time, have its effect. I thank you, likewise, for the other smaller pieces, which accompanied Vattel.
Benjamin Franklin To Charles-Guillaume-Frédéric Dumas, Philadelphia December 9, 1775.

Nor was any other singular work Such as Montique's Spirit of the Laws or Locke's Treatises of Government mentioned in the Constitution itself, while Vattel's Law of Nations IS mentioned in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 10

-----

To say representatives of the states is to mean the States in their corporate capacities, i.e. legislatures.

Not always. The corporate, or positive law State is a State of the United States, but the American States are the unincorporated, Natural Law component of the State....the People.

16 posted on 01/18/2013 2:04:01 PM PST by MamaTexan (To follow Original Constitutional Intent, one MUST acknowledge the Right of secession)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson