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IRS Threatens Employers
CCHF ^ | 1-16-13 | Twila Brase

Posted on 01/16/2013 12:09:28 PM PST by TurboZamboni

The gloves are coming off. We're 11 months from full implementation and the real-world impact of Obamacare is hitting the newswires. Taco Bell and Wendy's just cut the hours of hundreds of employees to avoid the Obamacare employer health insurance mandate. These workers will not only not have health insurance, they will have less money to pay for it and may be forced into Medicaid under the individual mandate.

Now, the Internal Revenue Service is warning employers not to avoid the employer mandate. The IRS issued a 144-page notice which says they will soon issue proposed regulations with "anti-abuse rules."

This means penalties. The IRS intends to penalize any employer who dares to follow the law by finding the Obamacare's legal loopholes and employing perfectly legal tactics to avoid its penalties. These legal tactics are nothing new. But President Obama doesn't like it so he's called out the IRS bloodhounds.

In fact, nothing in the Obamacare law says employers can't cut hours, re-hire, split companies into separate legal entities to shrink the size of the company to the requisite penalty-avoiding 49 employees, or use temporary agencies. As the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) states, "A business can avoid the penalties by firing employees, by not hiring new ones, by replacing full-timers with part-timers, or by outsourcing."

In addition, because Obamacare defines "full-time" as 30 hours/week...

(Excerpt) Read more at healthenews.cchfreedom.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: barrycares; hiring; irs; irspenalties; jobs; obamacare; obamacareirs; obamacaremandate; penalities; punishment; regulations

1 posted on 01/16/2013 12:09:39 PM PST by TurboZamboni
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To: TurboZamboni

Affordable Care Act - ObamaCare, euphemistically.

Who does it benefit? Who does it hurt?

It benefits lawyers and power mad politicians. It hurts everyone else.


2 posted on 01/16/2013 12:12:11 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: TurboZamboni

Nothing but a scare tactic. If outlawing tax loopholes were as easy as adding an “anti abuse” provision the IRS would have done so long ago to all taxes across the board.


3 posted on 01/16/2013 12:15:51 PM PST by apillar
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To: TurboZamboni

We are sliding, no, rocketing int full-blown fascism, where we still have private capital but are told in minute detail what to do with it.

Now companies will be told how many people to employ, and for how many hours, and what benefits to give them.

Plus local fascist rules like what kind of oil to put in the fryolators and how big the drink cups must be, and where to stand to smoke tobacco.


4 posted on 01/16/2013 12:16:15 PM PST by DBrow
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To: TurboZamboni

Actually the administration is correct on this. Directive 10-289 specifically prohibits business owners from changing their workforce, prices, or output.


5 posted on 01/16/2013 12:19:10 PM PST by Brownie63
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To: TurboZamboni
Have we really come to the point where following the law is an illegal activity?

-PJ

6 posted on 01/16/2013 12:19:29 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: TurboZamboni

Sure will be awful hard to prove you needed a person more than 28 hrs...and were therefore in violation.

I can almost see a cottage industry of labor finders with a pool of fast foodians ready to work 20 hrs for one place and 20 hrs for another....they get their hours and the owners shed overhead....


7 posted on 01/16/2013 12:20:08 PM PST by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: Brownie63

obama can shove his Directive 10-289 where the sun don’t shine.


8 posted on 01/16/2013 12:22:45 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Brownie63
LOL!

Four shrugs.

9 posted on 01/16/2013 12:29:35 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Proud Thought Criminal since 1984)
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To: TurboZamboni

I predict that when they go bankrupt and close their doors the feral government will prosecute them for evading Obamacare mandates.


10 posted on 01/16/2013 12:31:41 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: TurboZamboni

Could further distortion and abuse of 0bamacare (outside its original scope) by our own gov’t cause a revisit by our SCOTUS? I would think that is likely. Roberts will be blackmailed again, however.


11 posted on 01/16/2013 12:33:08 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: TurboZamboni

“The rules is what we say the rules is.” -—Obama Administration Memo


12 posted on 01/16/2013 12:35:25 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Brownie63

Who is John Galt?


13 posted on 01/16/2013 12:36:57 PM PST by oldtimer
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To: Las Vegas Ron

re: “obama can shove his Directive 10-289 where the sun don’t shine.”

Everyone else probably already knows this, but I had to look up what “Directive 10-289” is.

It’s a reference to a fictional directive in Ayn Rand’s book “Atlas Shrugged” in which the government had run the economy into the ground, then had to create Directive 10-289 that forbade companies/employers from doing anything with their businesses to avoid all the government mandates and regulations.


14 posted on 01/16/2013 12:42:44 PM PST by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Adder

It is a burden on the employee to have to report to two different locations to earn 40 hours pay. My girl friend lost her 40 hour / week job because she could not make it at 28 hours per week. But I guess the employer could not find reliable workers at 28 houra per week, so they rehired her at 40 hours. This law is causing extreme havoc for both employers and workers. It will make it a lot harder for many to find work.


15 posted on 01/16/2013 12:45:18 PM PST by tommix2 (,)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

P4L


16 posted on 01/16/2013 12:45:25 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: TurboZamboni
Now, the Internal Revenue Service is warning employers not to avoid the employer mandate. The IRS issued a 144-page notice which says they will soon issue proposed regulations with "anti-abuse rules."

What? But they promised!

IRS: No agents will enforce Obamacare mandate

http://times247.com/articles/irs-won-t-use-agents-to-enforce-obamacare-mandate

IRS: We Won’t Be Tax Enforcers for the Obamacare Penalty

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/09/15827-irs-agents-we-wont-be-tax-enforcers-for-the-obamacare-penalty/

17 posted on 01/16/2013 12:46:05 PM PST by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: Brownie63

If companies cannot adjust to make a profit, then why stay open? Close and move offshore..


18 posted on 01/16/2013 12:46:37 PM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: TurboZamboni

The country is almost full-fledged communist. There is no such thing as owning a business. You just have the investment, the expenses, the work, the responsibilities, the headaches, and maybe a little profit. Maybe. One level of government or other is always up your a$$ telling you what to do, who to hire and how big your bathrooms have to be.


19 posted on 01/16/2013 12:47:37 PM PST by I want the USA back (Almost there. 4 more years of 0bama and we're there.)
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To: TurboZamboni

If I owned several franchises I’d incorporate them seperately and be done with it.


20 posted on 01/16/2013 12:52:19 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

They are already doing this in France. Penalizing companies for shutting down.


21 posted on 01/16/2013 12:52:31 PM PST by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: Gaffer

Affordable Care Act?????

Affordable? Does that seem strange to you?

Up is down, hot is cold, stink is pleasant, left is right, and raw rhubarb is delicious???

No matter what the government labels a communistic bill, the name is the opposite of the actual effect.

Furthermore, nothing the government says (and it’s supporters...the MSN) can be believed. Whatever they say, believe just the opposite and you won’t be fooled.

Who ever thought we would reach this point in our culture?


22 posted on 01/16/2013 12:52:41 PM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: DH

Hey....I just report the facts...that’s what it’s called.

The most troubling and difficult task for a prospective bill author or political party is to invent the name of law that is completely the opposite of what the proposed law would do....

These last four years of suffering the humiliation of being a citizen in the now-country of Obama have left me feeling like the actors on some of those old Sci-Fi episodes of the “Twightlight Zone”....I actually have trouble sleeping at night because of the disbelief of what my country has become.


23 posted on 01/16/2013 1:01:42 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: DH

It is neither affordable nor is it health care.


24 posted on 01/16/2013 1:05:26 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (November 6, 2012.....A day that will live in infamy!)
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To: TurboZamboni

To anybody just being born now: this really was a great country, once. About 60 years ago. Was. It isn’t any more.


25 posted on 01/16/2013 1:08:19 PM PST by I want the USA back (Welcome to the former United States of America)
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To: TurboZamboni

The IRS - government - threatens........ Anybody still doubt about the tyranny in America?


26 posted on 01/16/2013 1:13:42 PM PST by Dapper 26
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To: Brownie63

I looked and there isnt any such regulation.


27 posted on 01/16/2013 1:16:33 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Lorianne
They are already doing this in France. Penalizing companies for shutting down.

You have to respect insane consitency, in an insane kind of way.

28 posted on 01/16/2013 1:19:09 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: I want the USA back

Extortion-Care is the Government Work-Camp:

Arbeitsziehungslager


29 posted on 01/16/2013 1:24:57 PM PST by Varsity Flight (Extortion-Care is the Government Work-Camp: Arbeitsziehungslager)
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To: TurboZamboni

These bastards really break our stones. What if the business isn’t making a profit? Sometimes you are just barely making it, but you don’t close the business because you know it will get better. You continue to pay your employees because it’s the right thing to do, but you don’t take a salary because you’re an honest person.

The fools who gave us this a$$hole law have no bloody idea of what it means to have a business. In the liberal “minds”, business owners are evil capitalists who exploit their workers and earn obscene profits on the backs and sweat of their employees.

The end goal is to have all the means of production in the hands of the government. See communist manifesto.


30 posted on 01/16/2013 1:27:56 PM PST by I want the USA back (Liberalism is an incurable failure of the mind's ability to think rationally.)
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To: I want the USA back

In the minds of a leftist, any profit margin greater than 1% is greedy unless it’s a solar company or some other ‘green’ company getting taxpayer money.

If the ‘green’ company isn’t completley bankrupt within a year, it’s a “stimulus success story” and/or a “great American company”.


31 posted on 01/16/2013 1:40:50 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: TurboZamboni

After a while they define 20 hours as full time.

Here’s an idea, you liberal a$$hole$. Use your own money (not ours) to open a business. Get the required approvals and registrations. Pay the fees. Pay rent. Buy supplies and equipment. Pay employees. All from your own money or your investors’. Work your a$$ off for 2 years to make it profitable. Pay the sales taxes on all sales. Pay worker’s comp, unemployment, payroll tax, insurance and electricity. If there’s any profit left, pay 30% of it to the government.

If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you should. You created this anti-business climate. So shut your liberal pie-hole.


32 posted on 01/16/2013 1:41:39 PM PST by I want the USA back (Yup, i'm mad.)
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To: Vendome
"If I owned several franchises I’d incorporate them seperately and be done with it."

And then ObamaGub'ment would change the rules and you'd still do as they wish or face stiff penalties and eventually imprisonment.

The SCOTUS Ruled the Gub'ment can make you pay anything they wish as long as they make it a tax.

You can't win that battle.

33 posted on 01/16/2013 1:48:04 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: TurboZamboni

Wonder what would happen if all those large employers sent everyone home for a couple of weeks while they reconsider whether they wish to continue to keep their businesses open. I’ll bet the government hot shots would wet their panties. Business owners need to rebel big time. The government can’t force them to keep their doors open.


34 posted on 01/16/2013 1:54:53 PM PST by txrefugee
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To: WildHighlander57

Atlas Shrugged


35 posted on 01/16/2013 1:55:06 PM PST by italianquaker
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To: TurboZamboni

Who needs the Gestapo when you have the IRS ...


36 posted on 01/16/2013 2:16:58 PM PST by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

If Roberts had any integrity or loyalty to the Constitution, he would have outed his black mailers.


37 posted on 01/16/2013 2:20:24 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The question is not whether Obama ever lies, but whether he ever tells the truth.)
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To: I want the USA back

We need a “living minimum wage” in the USA.
It is only “fair”.
$100/hour is a reasonable first step with 15% “cost of living” increases annually.
Business should not be so greedy.
They have lots of money.

(It’s for the children/s)


38 posted on 01/16/2013 2:26:15 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The question is not whether Obama ever lies, but whether he ever tells the truth.)
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To: tommix2

“It will make it a lot harder for many to find work.”

No, it will make it easier to find work but harder to find good work. A mentor of mine was working in Portugal (for one of the big accounting firms) decades ago, and Portugal had basically decided to lower unemployment by having people work half days. They doubled the workforce and halved the pay. Expect the same consequence here; it will be trumpeted that Obama lowered the unemployment rate to 1%, and Americans will have average annual salaries of $12,000 (and a lot of free time on their hands).


39 posted on 01/16/2013 2:29:17 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: txrefugee

“I’ll bet the government hot shots would wet their panties. Business owners need to rebel big time. The government can’t force them to keep their doors open.”

I think you’ve missed the point of the re-distribution scheme; business owners, suffering from four years of Obamanomics, rebeled and failed in the 2012 election. The government has been closing them down by stifling growth; every business that has closed up will be re-opened with a “women/minority business loan” (subsidized by the businesses that have survived). There will be no transfer of wealth from the prior generation to their heirs by the time this is done; they have “leveled the playing field” with their re-distribution and estate taxes and such. If all goes according to plan, uneducated whites will replace affirmative action blacks in the underclass within one generation.

This economy is not an unforeseen consequence; IT WAS THE ULTIMATE GOAL FROM DAY ONE.


40 posted on 01/16/2013 2:36:27 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: I want the USA back
You continue to pay your employees because it’s the right thing to do, but you don’t take a salary because you’re an honest person.

I owned my own little General Contracting business back in the late 90's and into the early part of the new millennium. Due in part to the dot-com rise and cheap import of immigrant programmers, I was laid off as a programmer (self-taught - no sheep skin kept me from staying in IT). I decided to go back to doing what I did as a kid with my father and brother - construction. It started out with just me doing manual labor and my wife doing paperwork.

Within three years, I had 21 full-time employees and 10-15 part-timers (depending on our jobs) and was making GOOD money. Then the recession really hit home and over the last two years I made less than most of my employees. I finished my last two jobs with just me and two other employees and both of those men made more money than I did!

I was over $87K in debt with NO job, NO income and I was married with four daughters. I was hoping, praying and trying to keep the business open and grow it back. The last hit, the one that made me finally shut my doors: I was hit with an OSHA citation! I had to sell my house to pay my citation so that the government didn't TAKE the house and leave me with NOTHING!

The government does not care about you, me or ANY worker! The government cares about getting every last dollar they can from you, me and EVERY worker!
41 posted on 01/16/2013 2:37:02 PM PST by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: Mad Dawgg
The SCOTUS Ruled the Gub'ment can make you pay anything they wish as long as they make it a tax.

This is complete BS! Why did it take a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to create the Income Tax then? You would think that a smart man like Roberts could look and see that there are OBVIOUS limits to the taxing powers of the US Government! The REQUIREMENT for an amendment to institute such a grand reach SHOULD be obvious!

And this leads me to the same question for the "War on Drugs!" Why did it take a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to enact Prohibition and a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to repeal Prohibition? But only 30-40 years later, the US Government (without an amendment) somehow MORPHED into an all encompassing power that allows them to tell Americans what they can do in their own homes with their own bodies!

I truly do not believe that most CONSERVATIVES even understand how far we have fallen from the path of our Founding Fathers! It is SICKENING when you put it all into perspective!
42 posted on 01/16/2013 2:50:27 PM PST by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: tommix2

I know that it does. Many of us are week to week not knowing when or if the axe comes.

I merely suggest that some agency...private, of course, can match willing workers with willing employers. The workers are covered under the law yet are able to work enough hours to live.

Its not ideal, by any means. JUst a thought.


43 posted on 01/16/2013 3:08:13 PM PST by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: TurboZamboni

South Carolina is getting around all the IRS BS by passing legislation to throw these gestapo pigs into prison for five years if they try to enforce any aspect of obumacare.

Oh, I forgot. These IRS Rambo accountants have bought 2 billion rounds of ammo and will shoot cop-killer bullets out their arses to get us all. At least that’s what I’m hearing from a small group of FR surrender monkeys.


44 posted on 01/16/2013 3:51:27 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: Gaffer
The most troubling and difficult task for a prospective bill author or political party is to invent the name of law that is completely the opposite of what the proposed law would do....

Back in the 1920s there was an intellectual movement called "General Semantics." Their goal was to understand and clarify the thinking processes of people. The movement died out around the 1950s. It was still active when I was in college, but I've heard nothing of it since. Among their slogans were "The name is not the object," and "The map is not the territory." If the General Semanticists were still around, they might now say "The title of the law is not its real intent."

45 posted on 01/16/2013 5:28:20 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: JoeFromSidney

The late Senator Sam Hayakawa (R, CA) was also an author and expert on General Semantics; his LANGUAGE IN THOUGHT AND ACTION is a classic in the field.


46 posted on 01/16/2013 6:39:52 PM PST by Colinsky
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To: TurboZamboni
In fact, nothing in the Obamacare law says employers can't cut hours, re-hire, split companies into separate legal entities to shrink the size of the company to the requisite penalty-avoiding 49 employees, or use temporary agencies.

Employers have been doing this for 15 years now...

The author of seems to think this is something new.

The author needs to reboot himself.

47 posted on 01/16/2013 6:56:33 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Gaffer

“I actually have trouble sleeping at night because of the disbelief of what my country has become.”


You are not alone my FRiend. I too, have lost a lot of sleep over the past several months and feel absolutely helpless since the Republicans don’t have the spine to actually represent and protect our Constitutional rights.

I further lay awake thinking of how helpless we will be to protect our assets when the economy collapses.


48 posted on 01/17/2013 6:50:55 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: dragnet2

split companies into separate legal entities to shrink the size of the company to the requisite penalty-avoiding 49 employees, or use temporary agencies.


The 50 rule is only the start. Think of it as the camel’s nose under the tent.

Eventually, it will encompass EVERY employee of EVERY business.


49 posted on 01/17/2013 7:01:38 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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