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U.S. has lower life expectancy than any other wealthy nation because high murder rate
The Daily Mail ^ | 9 January 2013

Posted on 01/09/2013 1:31:24 PM PST by MinorityRepublican

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To: MinorityRepublican
The United States has far more violent deaths than any other wealthy nation in part because there are so many residents who own guns and store them in unlocked places in their homes.

The lax gun rules are a major contributor to the low life expectancy rate that Americans have compared to their global counterparts.

It is, well, certainly an interesting hypothesis.

But one might certainly be pardoned for inquiring: Where is the case for a causal relationship between gun ownership and a lower life expectancy?

51 posted on 01/09/2013 3:04:35 PM PST by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: MinorityRepublican
Something is wrong here. Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands have higher murder rates and higher life expectancies than the United States.
52 posted on 01/09/2013 3:05:59 PM PST by x
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To: Vigilanteman
What is the actual rate in the USA if black and hispanic statistics are taken out of the equation?

Quite similar to pasty white Nordic countries. And you don't even have to take my word for it. Just look at states like the Dakotas, Minnesota and Iowa with comparable pasty white demographics (which also happen to be mainly of Nordic extraction).

The numbers back you up.

Crime data for each state and the entire US can be found here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Demographics for each state, county and city can be found here: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

53 posted on 01/09/2013 3:06:10 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Dogbert41
Most killed and injured by guns are bad guys being killed and injured by guns.

Wrong .... most killed and injured by guns are bad guys being killed and injured by other bad guys with guns

54 posted on 01/09/2013 3:07:32 PM PST by tx_eggman (Liberalism is only possible in that moment when a man chooses Barabas over Christ.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

OK, that makes sense as well, since most firearms deaths are inner-city criminal actions, and people committing crimes in the cities are mostly using cheap concealed handguns.

The injury postulate I think would still hold. According to the CDC, in 2009 there were 774 unintentional deaths by being “struck by or against”. Ok, that doesn’t have to include just hammers. But there were only 564 unintentional firearm deaths in that year.

There were 31,000 unintentional poisonings. We could save a lot of lives it we just put child locks on all our poisons. :-)


55 posted on 01/09/2013 3:08:43 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: MinorityRepublican
What a load of crap.

You cannot trust data concerning gun violence when it comes from the Brady Campaign.

They always include things like suicides and police shootings in their number crunching, which depending on what year you look at, can make up more than half of all firearm fatalities in the U.S.!!!

Taking guns away from Americans won't take them out of the hands of the police and someone who wants to kill themselves, can just step out in front of a bus or hang themselves....rope is cheap.

The media cannot be trusted to be honest in the area of gun control.....especially when it comes to the U.S. and the Brady Campaign is just as dishonest!

56 posted on 01/09/2013 3:14:07 PM PST by Carbonsteel
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To: DallasDeb; All

“According to the FBI, for 2011, there were between 12K and 13K gun deaths.”

I do not believe we have the 2011 data yet. For 2010 there were 8,775 homicides committed with firearms.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

There were about 19,000 suicides committed with firearms. Many European nations have higher combined suicide and homicide rates than we do.

The U.S. combined suicide/homicide rate is 16.2

Finland is 18.8

Sweden is 17.2

Belgium about 20

France about 16.2

Luxembourg 16.8

Russia 42

Japan 24.5


57 posted on 01/09/2013 3:23:29 PM PST by marktwain
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To: CharlesWayneCT

My goodness, why didn’t anyone think of that before? ;^)


58 posted on 01/09/2013 3:23:48 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

59 posted on 01/09/2013 3:30:16 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio)
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To: MinorityRepublican


             

Even assuming an absurdly high number of murders/year - say 100,000 - the effect on mortality in a population of 360,000,000 + would be microscopic:

100,000/360,000,000 = 0.000277777777777

Then, assuming an absurdly high mortality rate in the general population of 10%/year:

100,000/36,000,000 = 0.002777777777777

Ergo, refer back to opening graphic.

/.02

60 posted on 01/09/2013 3:33:27 PM PST by tomkat (-/\/\/\-)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Death by homicide is number 15. I wonder what the breakdown of the homicide catorgry is?

I bet guns would be about half and the other half woudl be other methods from a good push out the window to a punch to the head. So death by gun must be number 25 or 30?


61 posted on 01/09/2013 3:39:02 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

I would love to see the statistics excluding the large urban areas, which are basically no go zones and which also have the most stringent gun laws.


62 posted on 01/09/2013 3:43:02 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Slings and Arrows

It is rifles that they are trying to ban.

LLS


63 posted on 01/09/2013 3:44:50 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: MinorityRepublican; All

I must have missed it in the article. Where do they state the DOJ statistics which show that from 1976-2005 blacks represented 12% of the US population but accounted for 52.2% of all homicides committed?

Did I miss that somewhere? Where is it?


64 posted on 01/09/2013 3:45:33 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

He was talking about rifles.

LLS


65 posted on 01/09/2013 3:45:43 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I don’t know the information by race, but I read that if you remove the most populated cities, all of our rates (death, accident, suicide, injury, crime, etc.) are among the best in the world.

The cities are very dangerous.

There are many safe cities in the US such as San Jose, San Diego and El Paso. You can find the murder rates and demographics for all cities in the US at city-data.com

There's a pattern.

66 posted on 01/09/2013 3:47:29 PM PST by Ken H
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To: LibLieSlayer

This time, yes. But to say that more deaths are caused by hammers than guns is not the case.


67 posted on 01/09/2013 3:58:05 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: marktwain

Correct. Differences like this were used to push Obamacare on us.

America has the best health care system in the world bar none. Obamacare will only make it worse.


68 posted on 01/09/2013 4:22:50 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: MinorityRepublican

How many people in Europe were murdered during the 1940s?


69 posted on 01/09/2013 4:27:15 PM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: MinorityRepublican

How many people were murdered in the no-guns-for-citizens regimes of Eastern Europe and the USSR? China? Cambodia?


70 posted on 01/09/2013 4:28:53 PM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Americans fight for every life. We measure live births differently than other countries. They only count a live birth if the baby lives 24 hours.

The numbers about our life expectancy and health care compared to the rest of the world are based on lies.

See here: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/07/scott_atlas_on.html

Read the transcript and listen to the interview.

We were lied to...again.


71 posted on 01/09/2013 4:34:43 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Well I did correct it after your post.

LLS


72 posted on 01/09/2013 4:50:17 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: MinorityRepublican
Treat the black murder rate separately, and the US murder rate is right in the middle of the other nations.

We don't have any worse a crime problem. We have a black-crime problem.

73 posted on 01/09/2013 4:56:09 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: Dogbert41

or killed by other bad guys with guns (I am referring to gangs).


74 posted on 01/09/2013 6:39:55 PM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Just wait until the next European Communist/Fascist culling.


75 posted on 01/09/2013 7:15:13 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (bahits.com)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Sure. Like I’m going to believe the Brady Bunch, Justice Dept. and Gallup as published by The Nation.


76 posted on 01/09/2013 7:20:10 PM PST by matt04
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To: Little Ray
most of THOSE are scum killing scum at no net loss to society.

So, what percentage of the total are gang-bangers killing each other, and how many are criminals being killed by the cops?

77 posted on 01/09/2013 7:21:57 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month)
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To: Ken H
There are many safe cities in the US such as San Jose, San Diego and El Paso. There's a pattern.

Hmmm...they all have Spanish names? :-)

78 posted on 01/09/2013 7:40:24 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: ObozoMustGo2012

The American Medical Association controls health insurance billing codes and had major input into the Electronic Medical Records Systems being put in place. One of the standard questions is, “Do you have a gun in your home?”
The consolidation of medical records into Obamacare will put everyone who answers “yes” to that question into a federal database not officially linked to the ATF or any other gun registering organization.
And, potentially, we could face fines or denial of care for failing to disclose a danger if someone in our home is injured with a gun - just like failing to admit you smoke and thus paying a lower health insurance premium, but paying a fine when you come in with smoker’s lung.


79 posted on 01/09/2013 8:02:43 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Mr. Silverback
Also, note how the nine with guns are men and the one person with no gun is a woman (no guns for you girls, getting raped is morally superior to self-defense)

Photobucket

80 posted on 01/09/2013 9:34:19 PM PST by Graybeard58 ("Civil rights” leader and MSNB-Hee Haw host Al Sharpton - Larry Elder)
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To: MinorityRepublican

nothing personal but take minority crime out and our crime rates are as low as Scandinavia


81 posted on 01/09/2013 9:53:51 PM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Avid Coug
Are the gang bangers getting them from legal gun owners, or what?

No, gang bangers tend to have the real McCoy as in fully automatic weapons. They are not getting these legally. There is a weapon pipeline just like there is a drug pipeline into countries. There is no paperwork and cold cash is needed. You have to know where to go and who to talk to.

A lot of the weapons are brand new and not stolen.

82 posted on 01/10/2013 6:32:54 AM PST by USAF80
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

I am afraid the cops don’t kill all that many scumbags. I read it was like 200 (nationwide) in 2006. Armed citizens are a lot better at this than the cops; there are more of them, and they have a better idea who the bad guys are than a cop arriving on the scene.

As for the victims, this is an interesting study from 1993:

http://arcofcc.freeservers.com/Documents/murder.html

Dunno how applicable it is today, but I like the conclusion:

Concluding Comments

Innocent Victims. Undeniably, some victims are innocent. However, the vast majority are “low-lifes.” As compared to the general population, both murderers and victims have criminal records and abuse alcohol or drugs.

Random Crime. Very little crime is random. In fact, 80% of killers have a “relationship” with their victim. Most often, they know each other through drug deals, criminal activity, or sordid romances.

The majority of crime bears more resemblance to the falling out of two drunken pirates than to an argument between Ozzie and Harriet.

Race. Black and Hispanics are responsible for the vast majority of murders. Nonhispanic whites are more likely to be a victim than a killer.

Guns Versus Race. In urban areas, blacks and Hispanics commit about 80% of murders, yet firearms are used in 47% of murders.

Squaring .80 and .47 yields rough coefficient of determination of .64 for race and .20 for guns.

We can say that race accounts for about 64% of the variance in murder while guns account for only 20% of the variance in murder.

Said another way, race is 2.9 times a better predictor of murder than is guns (64 divided by 20 = 2.9).

Parting Shot. You are losing your rights because of too much crime. They want to fingerprint and curfew your teenagers. They want your guns and the right to kick in your doors without due process.

They want to ban “hate crimes” which would, among other things, make you a criminal just for reading this.

Do not allow yourself to be punish for what others do.

Rather than being treated as individuals, minorities demand to be treated as a group. Perhaps, we should treat then that way.


83 posted on 01/10/2013 6:34:20 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: Little Ray; All

Thanks Ray!

Excellent information.


84 posted on 01/10/2013 6:39:21 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month)
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To: DallasDeb
These stats are a lie (30K gun deaths). According to the FBI, for 2011, there were between 12K and 13K gun deaths.

Thank you for pointing that out. It bears repeating.

Of course, the 30,000 number is from the Brady campaign, so it is surprising they did not round it off to the ever ubiquitous number of "100,000" Dems use for everything else.

85 posted on 01/10/2013 6:40:31 AM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: USAF80

No, gangbangers don’t have fully automatic SMGs, ARs, or, heaven forbid, LMGs. Mostly they have cheap pistols.
We’d be hearing about it every second of the day for weeks if some gangster dumped a clip into a crowd of rival gangbangers from a real MAC-10 or full-auto M-16. The Mainstream Propaganda would lap it up. The number of murders in this country committed with fully automatic weapons in this country approaches zero.
What automatic weapons are in private hands in this country are mostly locked up in gun safes.


86 posted on 01/10/2013 6:46:56 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: USAF80
gang bangers tend to have the real McCoy as in fully automatic weapons. They are not getting these legally. There is a weapon pipeline just like there is a drug pipeline into countries. There is no paperwork and cold cash is needed....A lot of the weapons are brand new and not stolen.

You have to know where to go and who to talk to.

Oh, you mean Eric Holder and his boss.

87 posted on 01/10/2013 6:49:06 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month)
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To: USAF80

Ahhhh! Statistics!

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns

In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 ‘ban’ on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.


Thanks to the staff of the Columbus, Ohio Public Library for the details of the Waller case.

Source: talk.politics.guns FAQ, part 2.

The other homicide, possibly involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio (source).

In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of ATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify ATF after moving a registered gun between states.

Crime Involving Illegally Owned Machine Guns

Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992. (713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)

In 1980, when Miami’s homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a “machine gun Mecca” and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with “the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations” were machine guns.


88 posted on 01/10/2013 6:57:53 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: Little Ray

The LSM will never report gang bangers shooting each other up even if they used M1 tanks and RPGs. Let another nut shoot up somewhere with a full auto and that will be a different story.


89 posted on 01/10/2013 6:58:48 AM PST by USAF80
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To: Little Ray

Dude arrested in Oregon had 13 fully automatic weapons. Mary Jane grower. Not your typical “gang banger” . The average dummy on the street would not have anything but a cheap throw away gun.


90 posted on 01/10/2013 7:11:11 AM PST by USAF80
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To: USAF80

You don’t think the gangbangers wouldn’t use such firepower in more productive ways like bank robbery or armored car heists?
Or that the “news” wouldn’t portray the victims of such infighting as “aspiring rap stars who were turning their lives around and trying to take care of children” or some other crap?
I listened to “Freakonomics.” The most interesting part was about the economics of running a drug gang. If the example he gave was typical, the margin just isn’t there for automatic weapons. Too much money has to go “up the chain” to bosses.
I could be way wrong, but I don’t think there are that many illegal fully automatic weapons loose in the US.


91 posted on 01/10/2013 7:12:56 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: USAF80

Guess I’m wrong then.
I’d still figure the MSM could not pass up a chance to mouth off about it. Oh, well.


92 posted on 01/10/2013 7:16:22 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: Ken H
Thank you.

And the funny thing is that even states like the Dakotas, Minnesota and Iowa look high crime when you get out into even more gun friendly states in the Rockies like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Utah.

93 posted on 01/10/2013 7:21:54 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Little Ray
Police also raided a home at 1615 S. 16th Ave., Maywood, where they said they seized 23 live hand grenades; 8 fully automatic machine guns; 7 sawed-off shotguns; a semi-automatic machine gun; 20 handguns; a cluster bomb and thousands of rounds of ammunition.

This is a Chicago raid in 1989. Where the heck can you get live grenades legally?

94 posted on 01/10/2013 7:24:58 AM PST by USAF80
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To: Graybeard58

Yep!


95 posted on 01/10/2013 7:25:37 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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To: GraceG

And she’s taller...because you know them gun owners are compensating for something! I like how she’s shrugging, as if someone just asked her, “if a rapist invades your home, what do you plan to do about it?”


96 posted on 01/10/2013 7:31:51 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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