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2012 Economic Census (vanity: what is this crap?)
My Mailbox ^ | 01/08/2013 | Me

Posted on 01/08/2013 4:16:37 PM PST by manic4organic

I received this in the mail the other day. The front of the envelope reads: "U.S. Census Bureau Form Enclosed. YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW. Please complete and return by February 12, 2013.

I knew the Census is part of the Constitution but a business census? They have pages and pages of forms they want filled out. They want to know how many employees, all my financial numbers, (sales and types services and products offered).

First, is this Constitutional? Second, doesn't the IRS have most of this information already?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: businesscensus; census; economiccensus; intrusive; unconstitutional
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Maybe Obamacare related?
1 posted on 01/08/2013 4:16:47 PM PST by manic4organic
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To: manic4organic

I’ve received the same mailer. I figured it had to do with being a small business owner.


2 posted on 01/08/2013 4:18:48 PM PST by skeeter
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To: manic4organic

I would say almost certainly Obamacare related. The IRS is getting 5100 new employees thanks to Obamacare , they have to put them to doing something.

BOHICA


3 posted on 01/08/2013 4:20:01 PM PST by Venturer
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To: skeeter

...what letter? Never received it.


4 posted on 01/08/2013 4:20:14 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Obama has turned America into an aristocracy of the unaccomplished.)
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To: manic4organic

Mine arrived in the mail today, too. Something about a “mandatory response”. Too bad my dog shredded it.


5 posted on 01/08/2013 4:21:17 PM PST by Biff55 (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets.)
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To: manic4organic

Wow, you even want to work words like “crap” into the thread titles now?

This place really will start looking like DU then.


6 posted on 01/08/2013 4:23:27 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said “conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: skeeter

Did you read the paper work reduction act notice at the end of the form? My ag census said 50 minutes on avg, I sent it to my congress critter to fill out................


7 posted on 01/08/2013 4:23:34 PM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Lord save me from some conservatives, they don't understand human nature any better than liberals.)
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To: manic4organic

I’d toss that s**t in the trash. Seriously.


8 posted on 01/08/2013 4:25:06 PM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: manic4organic

I’d never heard of such a thing either, but I did find this: http://www.census.gov/econ/census/about/


9 posted on 01/08/2013 4:27:29 PM PST by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: manic4organic

Oh, that Census form you filled out and dropped in the mailbox?

Once it’s in the mailbox it becomes the responsibility of the USPS. You fulfilled your duty.


10 posted on 01/08/2013 4:29:10 PM PST by upchuck (America's at an awkward stage. Too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: manic4organic

google the sh*t out of the address, remember that some of the slime ball orgs out there use a bad return to sender address so it gets auto forwarded to their private org.


11 posted on 01/08/2013 4:29:30 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature ($1.84 - The price of a gallon of gas on Jan. 20th, 2009.)
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To: RightOnline

Shred it first.


12 posted on 01/08/2013 4:29:36 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: ansel12

Wow, way to stay on topic. Or do you NOT think it’s crap? DU? Seriously? I’d have said sh*t but I’m much more refined than that.


13 posted on 01/08/2013 4:31:05 PM PST by manic4organic (It was nice knowing you, America.)
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To: manic4organic

Throw it in the garbage. It’s what I do. The criminals in DC don’t obey laws and neither should you. We need 10,000 brushfires lit across America to confound and exhaust the criminal fascist syndicate occupying Washington. Strike the match, patriot.


14 posted on 01/08/2013 4:31:50 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: manic4organic

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corporation-Expanded/dp/0914153277/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1357691175&sr=8-4&keywords=edwin+black


15 posted on 01/08/2013 4:32:28 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Biff55

Got an “agricultural census” form that is clearly aimed at small farmers and every bit as intrusive. They want to know all about various environmental items - wetlands, etc., how many and what kind of animals do I have, do operate a roadside stand and I rake in from that and/or farmer’s markets.

Too bad one of my horses ate it.


16 posted on 01/08/2013 4:35:44 PM PST by Noumenon (One individual with courage, determination and a rifle can change the course of history.)
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To: manic4organic

You are the one who added the cussing to the title, check out DU, they are rife with that language that is unpopular with conservatives.


17 posted on 01/08/2013 4:37:23 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said “conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: manic4organic

I got in the mail 2 days ago ...

USDA 2012 Census of Agriculture

“Your Response Is Required By Law” — BY WHOM

It’s not going anywhere — my cold dead fingers, etc.


18 posted on 01/08/2013 4:42:13 PM PST by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: PeterPrinciple

I went through mine in 5 minutes. I just want them to scan it in - some uneducated public employee will decide they can’t understand my response and it’ll be thrown out as an outlier.


19 posted on 01/08/2013 4:51:22 PM PST by skeeter
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To: manic4organic

I didn’t participate in the last two censuses because the government was too nosy. Wouldn’t fill out this one either.


20 posted on 01/08/2013 4:53:33 PM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: manic4organic

And people thought it was no big deal when the Census was moved from Commerce to the White Hut.


21 posted on 01/08/2013 4:54:45 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: ansel12

Well, Francis, Jim or the mods will pull it if it upsets you so. You may unbunch your panties now.


22 posted on 01/08/2013 5:01:48 PM PST by manic4organic (It was nice knowing you, America.)
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To: manic4organic

A little knowledge and research here would go a long way.

First, the Business Census is *not* Obamacare related, it’s been happening for years.

Second, it is done every five years ( vs. 10 year cycle for individuals) offset by 2 years for the Census for individuals.

Next - yes, the IRS has almost all of the financial info, the post office and SSA have all the rest from your payroll tax returns. The only thing they ‘catch’ are new businesses that have not yet filed a return.

This thread is borderline hysterical...my view is that the government already has all of this info, so just reguritating it for a different set of bureaucrats to make *their* chart series out of it is no big deal. One thing that comes out of it is adjustments to the Birth/Death model in the Establishment Survey used in the monthly jobs and unemployment data such as that released on the first Friday of each month.

Why do they collect it separately? Think ‘Silo Mentality’. IRS doesn’t share with SSA and vice versa; CIA doesn’t share with FBI; and *nobody+ is going to share with the Census Bureau within government. Why? That would jeopardize good paying union civil servant jobs. Each department has their own bloated staff to accumulate the same data over and over again.

If you’ve already submitted to the tyranny of filing tax returns, sending the Business Census back in is no big deal...it’s the *least+ of you’re worries.

Do yourself a favor and send it in and spare yourself the pain in the ___ of getting first phone calls then fines and penalty notices then visits from
Census takers...real ones who do it for a living, not the minimum wage boneheads they hire once per decade when they have to gear up to count people....


23 posted on 01/08/2013 5:05:10 PM PST by Reagan80 ("In this current crisis, government is not the solution to our problems, government IS the problem")
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To: ansel12

Did you notice that you are the only one whining?


24 posted on 01/08/2013 5:06:42 PM PST by EEGator
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To: EEGator; manic4organic

It is a conservative thing to object to the coarsening of the public language, but what an odd thing for you two to be fighting for.


25 posted on 01/08/2013 5:17:27 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said “conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: ansel12

“Wow, you even want to work words like “crap” into the thread titles now?

This place really will start looking like DU then.”

It’s not as if you suggested to not put “crap” in the title. You were being antagonistic with the above reply.


26 posted on 01/08/2013 5:23:02 PM PST by EEGator
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To: manic4organic
They cite Title 13, United States Code (U.S.C.), Sections 141 and 193 as their authority to request the information.

Section 141 (d) states, in part: …the Secretary, in the year 1985 and every 10 years thereafter, shall conduct a mid-decade census of population in such form and content as he may determine…

Section 141 (e) (2) states: Information obtained in any mid-decade census shall not be used for apportionment of Representatives in Congress among the several States, nor shall such information be used in prescribing congressional districts.

Section 141 (g) As used in this section, “census of population” means a census of population, housing, and matters relating to population and housing.

Section 193 states: In advance of, in conjunction with, or after the taking of each census provided for by this chapter, the Secretary may make surveys and collect such preliminary and supplementary statistics related to the main topic of the census as are necessary to the initiation, taking, or completion thereof.

Title 13, U.S.C., Section 221 states: Pursuant to this section, refusing to provide the requested information or neglecting to complete either survey subjects you to a fine of not more than $100.00. Willfully giving information that is false subjects you to a fine of not more than $500.00.

Personally, I don't see that the authority is there but that doesn't mean a Judge would agree. After all, I still don't see how Obamacare is authorized either.

27 posted on 01/08/2013 5:25:04 PM PST by Armando Guerra
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To: manic4organic

Do you have an agricultural exemption.
Everyone I know who does is getting these.


28 posted on 01/08/2013 5:25:30 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: manic4organic

Keep in mind that the word “response” is not defined. You can print the words, “I do not choose to participate” on the form, return it, and you will have responded.


29 posted on 01/08/2013 6:00:14 PM PST by STYRO (Hope you takers don't expect us producers to defend you. War sucks most for the losers.)
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To: manic4organic

If I get one it’ll go right into the shredder, just like the regular census stuff did. This government already knows more about me than it needs to.


30 posted on 01/08/2013 6:09:02 PM PST by clintonh8r (Happy to be represented by Lt. Col. Allen West)
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To: mylife; All

I do not have an ag exemption. I am just a small business owner. Service and retail. I have not yet decided what to do with this yet, but I do sincerely appreciate all the information and input. I had never seen or heard of one before, and I’ve been in business for 15 years.


31 posted on 01/08/2013 6:11:57 PM PST by manic4organic (It was nice knowing you, America.)
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To: manic4organic

Gov sucks doesn’t it?


32 posted on 01/08/2013 6:34:34 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: ansel12

crap is the short form of Crapper - the inventor of the flush toilet. Now worries mate.


33 posted on 01/08/2013 6:34:53 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: Armando Guerra
Well, the congress is required by law to pass a budget every year. They have ignored it for around 1600 days now. When the dims don’t want to follow the law they simply state we don’t know what the law is until a court rules on it. That is what ever laws the dims want to apply to them. Our government is lawless. Laws are only for their subjects.
34 posted on 01/08/2013 6:56:57 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: Reagan80
Next - yes, the IRS has almost all of the financial info, the post office and SSA have all the rest from your payroll tax returns. The only thing they ‘catch’ are new businesses that have not yet filed a return.

The Census can't get any information about specific people from the IRS or other government agencies (and vice-versa; IRS, FBI, etc. can't get information about you from the Census).

I have little hope anyone will believe me (despite the fact I've worked for the Census), but there is in fact no giant networked central computer full of your info that all government agencies are constantly putting info into and getting info out. I know people figure this MUST exist but each government agency has it's own (often crappy and antiquated) IT and database system.

35 posted on 01/08/2013 7:26:24 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Reagan80

Do you recommend the same thing for the American Community Survey that is allegedly mandatory as well?


36 posted on 01/08/2013 7:30:46 PM PST by Girlene
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I am a plumbing contractor, Thomas Crapper didn’t invent the flush toilet, and all words have origins, including the cussing that you see at DU and increasingly at FR.


37 posted on 01/08/2013 7:31:21 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said “conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: upchuck

I got one for college graduates a couple of years back. I kept getting phone calls about filling it out, under penalty of law. I finally told one a-hole: “Look, I mailed it. If you can’t find it, that’s your problem.” I hung up and never got called again.


38 posted on 01/08/2013 7:43:13 PM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: NTHockey

That is what I’ve done with every census form I’ve every received.

Several times I’ve been asked if I would fill out another form. My answer: No, I’ve fulfilled my duty.

Apparently they have way too much work to do to hassle one individual. They give up pretty easily.


39 posted on 01/08/2013 7:56:20 PM PST by upchuck (America's at an awkward stage. Too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: manic4organic

I’d research it online....but I doubt I’d fill it out.

I received the American Community Survey last year which was allegedly mandatory to fill out. The questions in the survey were so intrusive, it was unbelievable. One of the questions was what time you left for work each day.

I did my research online so I would know what to expect and know what to avoid. A small percentage would get the full treatment of phone calls, threats of fines, penalties, census visits. SOme of the stories of what census workers would resort to to get the info was unbelievable. Well sure enough, I got the full treatment. Three long months of avoiding phone calls all day long. In the last month, the census worker started visiting and calling. It finally came down to her getting into my mailbox....that was the last straw. I think I scared the bejeezus out of her. She never came back. I reported it to the post office. I reported it to the local police. That was the last I heard from the Census.....so far.

It was crazy. I felt like a prisoner in my own house/property.....but I followed recommendations from others who had been through it. I avoided all confrontations (verbal and physical)....well, except for the last one.

I’m assuming the economic survey is similar to the community survey in that it is allegedly mandatory, but noone has ever been fined or penalized. The Constitutinally mandated census only demands a counting of citizens, nothing more.


40 posted on 01/08/2013 8:10:29 PM PST by Girlene
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To: Girlene

Thanks for your story. Like my tagline says...


41 posted on 01/08/2013 8:17:44 PM PST by manic4organic (It was nice knowing you, America.)
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To: ansel12

Eh, crap isn’t banned here. It isn’t the S word or the F word. I suggest you don’t go to DU- they’re downright vile.


42 posted on 01/08/2013 8:27:53 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: manic4organic
i don't care what it is for. I threw it out. Giving the gov’t information isn't going to help me.
43 posted on 01/08/2013 9:28:41 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I spent a lot of time at DU in the last weeks of the campaign, it was pretty sick with the cussing, it seems to be the new giant push by the left, and it is showing up all over internet writing, even with professionals, and is naturally creeping into FR in a heavy way.

Conservatism and American culture is under constant attack.


44 posted on 01/08/2013 9:34:21 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said “conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: manic4organic

I would ignore it... but I already told them that I would go to Prison before I comply with Obamacare, the way I look at it ... it’s the only Retirement that is left to me but if they come after my guns, I no longer have to worry about Retirement anyway.

Win Win

TT


45 posted on 01/08/2013 10:02:15 PM PST by TexasTransplant (This needs to go viral http://vimeo.com/52009124 please watch it)
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To: Nuc 1.1

Sadly, I agree.


46 posted on 01/11/2013 6:19:50 AM PST by Armando Guerra
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To: Girlene

you got that too?


47 posted on 04/02/2013 2:50:48 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Girlene

you got that too?


48 posted on 04/02/2013 2:50:48 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: TurboZamboni

Yes. Did you fill yours out?


49 posted on 04/02/2013 9:19:55 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: Girlene

no.


50 posted on 04/03/2013 5:11:58 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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