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Django.WhiteHut.gove Petition must be addressed if it gets 9,049 more signatures
Django.WhiteHut.gov ^

Posted on 01/08/2013 6:15:19 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum

The Piers Morgan deporation petition is going to be addressed because it passed the threshold of 25,000 votes.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2975918/posts

There are 14 more days to get the required number of signatures on the petition to establish a gun-free zone around the pResident and send the Secret Service home is in the final stretch.

This petition illustrates the insanity of gun-free zones, and the hypocrisy of a politicians surrounding themselves with armed guards while insisting that our children be soft targets.

We have to fight the gun-grabbers on every front or they are going to win. This is just another front.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alteredsource; vanity

1 posted on 01/08/2013 6:15:27 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"...going to be addressed..."

Of course the shredder is the addressee. I don't care if this petition - or any petition championing a cause of conservatives - has 100 million signatures on it. This Administration will not care.

2 posted on 01/08/2013 6:21:00 AM PST by alancarp (Obama will grab your guns and ship them to Mexican drug mobs.)
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To: alancarp

Yes, it cracks me up every time I see a conservative insist that Obama will “have” to deal with something because he “promised”.

Obama has no intention of addressing ANYTHING in a petition on his site, unless it is something he supported.

He’ll be HAPPY though to “address” his spam to all the e-mails he collects on his site.


3 posted on 01/08/2013 6:34:10 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What exactly is “addressed”?

It is probably auto stamped with Obama’s electronic signature that he saw it even though he will not have.


4 posted on 01/08/2013 6:37:42 AM PST by FreeAtlanta (bahits.com)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

You are right. the only petitions he will champion are ones he already supports. if a gun control one comes close to enough signatures he will be all over it.


5 posted on 01/08/2013 6:41:18 AM PST by FreeAtlanta (bahits.com)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“...must be addressed”; if by “addressed”, you mean printed and used as buttwipe.


6 posted on 01/08/2013 6:41:44 AM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

.....don’t intend to “create an account.”


7 posted on 01/08/2013 6:58:49 AM PST by Banjoguy (The Mayor of San Antonio is the smoothest liar I have ever seen.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

“Addressing” will occur on the royal “throne”


8 posted on 01/08/2013 7:04:42 AM PST by bigbob
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To: alancarp
This petition illustrates the insanity of gun-free zones, and the hypocrisy of a politicians surrounding themselves with armed guards while insisting that our children be soft targets.

Why doesn't the Administration care? Do they really believe they should be protected - their children and families protected - but NOT everyday Americans? What kind of bullshit is that?

9 posted on 01/08/2013 7:25:07 AM PST by GOPJ (News anchor arrogance is a cover for ignorance. - - freeper ryan71)
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To: GOPJ

Their mindset is all about power and control for themselves. It is strictly agenda-driven They want to remove power from anyone opposing their script.

If human life were any consideration whatsoever, then abortion would be illegal and guns wouldn’t be sent to Mexican drug gangs. The deaths are actually welcomed as a means to an end...acceptable casualties in their ideological war. They. Don’t. Care.

This is why lies, theft of elections, illegal regulations, unconstitutional laws, media manipulation and endless litigation are all acceptable weapons in their arsenal.

It’s harsh, but these people are fighting a war and using any tactics at their disposal. We are not seeing it the same way.


10 posted on 01/08/2013 8:04:29 AM PST by alancarp (Obama will grab your guns and ship them to Mexican drug mobs.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Are you sure you want to put your name and info on a list that will most likely be used to keep track of all of us dissenters?


11 posted on 01/08/2013 8:10:13 AM PST by Bigg Red (Sorry, Mr. Franklin, I guess we couldn't keep it.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Between posts #2 and #8, there is something like 78 years of FR experience with stuck-in-neutral bloviation represented.

To all, try to enjoy this movie reminder of how important the American-do attitude is when facing what appears to be overwhelming odds. Then join the thousands who are demanding an explanation about why the elites children are more valuable than our children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8hQk76GcA


12 posted on 01/08/2013 8:37:17 AM PST by MurrietaMadman (Stop with the negative waves, Moriarity.)
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To: Bigg Red
You do realize that EVERYTHING you do on the Internet or a phone is being monitored and recorded, right?
13 posted on 01/08/2013 8:38:55 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: Bigg Red

Are you sure you’re a dissenter?


14 posted on 01/08/2013 8:39:27 AM PST by MurrietaMadman (Stop with the negative waves, Moriarity.)
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To: MurrietaMadman

The issue is not, as you attempt to frame it, whether we should demand an explanation or not.

The issue is whether signing a petition is of any value or not.

The “87 years of experience” seems to think that it is a waste of time. If so, the effort being put into the petition would be better spent finding a way to actually make the point you are trying to make.

The worst part of the petition is that it is calling for something that nobody here actually supports. I personally detest arguments that push for a negative in the vain hope that the other side will be persuaded by the idiocy.

Why not put up a petition that calls for all children to receive the same protection as the President’s children. It would still be useless, but at least it would be stating what you actually WANT.

Anyway, as a practical matter, Sidwell Friends should absolutely have more guards than a normal school. Every kid in Sidwell Friends is at increased risk of harm because there are high-value targets attending the school.

The rest of the schools in the country are about the safest place kids can be, on average. While we are confronted with the horror of the occasional mass murder, they are extremely rare, and many more kids are dying for many other reasons, and even being murdered in other locations.

Or to put it another way: if we were going to spend one billion dollars to make kids safer, there are a half-dozen things we could spend the money on that would make a MUCH BIGGER impact than putting armed guards in every school.

So, in summary, this freeper is saying: First, Obama will do nothing he promised; Second, the petition is a waste of time and effort; Third, the petition calls for the OPPOSITE of what you really want, which is silly; Fourth, there is good reason for the President’s kid’s school to be better protected than the average school; and Fifth, schools are already safe enough that we really shouldn’t be making them a high priority.

If you want to do something, do it cheap — let teachers and administrators have guns in all schools, and let the NRA provide training programs because that doesn’t cost government anything.


15 posted on 01/08/2013 9:47:01 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Yes, I do realize that.


16 posted on 01/08/2013 10:54:46 AM PST by Bigg Red (Sorry, Mr. Franklin, I guess we couldn't keep it.)
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To: MurrietaMadman

Uh-oh! I guess you found me out.


17 posted on 01/08/2013 10:55:51 AM PST by Bigg Red (Sorry, Mr. Franklin, I guess we couldn't keep it.)
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To: Bigg Red
Then you knowingly made an inane objection.

Interesting.

18 posted on 01/08/2013 11:18:23 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Gun Free Zones are supposed to protect our children, and some politicians wish to strip us of our right to keep and bear arms. Those same politicians and their families are currently under the protection of armed Secret Service agents. If Gun Free Zones are sufficient protection for our children, then Gun Free Zones should be good enough for politicians.

The issue is the Second Amendment. The left uses every avenue of approach to destroy our right to bear arms that occurs to them. I see this petition as an avenue of resistance to the efforts of the left. If you don't think that leftist quote 'never let a good crisis go to waste when it's an opportunity to do things you had never considered or you didn't think were possible' can't work for our side you are expressing a continued willingness to maintain the republican leadership reactive strategy which as far as I can tell is helping to bury our side.

The point being made by the person who started this petition, as I read it, is Gun Free Zones are a design of the left that the leftist elite does not believe is applicable to themselves.

Americans are having the fallacy that Gun Free Zones will provide safety for all pounded into our consciousness.

That is an attack on the Constitution. Most people when attacked, including myself, don't respond by first consulting the Marquess of Queensbury rules. A fight for life means anything in the arena of contention can be used in the struggle for survival. Including petitioning those who are entrusted with defending our Constitution.

You write The worst part of the petition is that it is calling for something that nobody here actually supports. I ask you to clarify that. What is it you support? Class distinction? Some animals are more valuable than others? Your following observation, Anyway, as a practical matter, Sidwell Friends should absolutely have more guards than a normal school. Every kid in Sidwell Friends is at increased risk of harm because there are high-value targets attending the school. seems to suggest that's what you believe.

That you appear to accept the occasional mass shooting in schools that "are about the safest place kids can be, on average" probably wouldn't be a comfort to parents of any future children who may be killed or maimed in a Gun Free Zone. I have news for you. Even without the occasional drug addled shooter, schools are no way the safest place kids can be for many reasons. Keeping them in government mandated Gun Free Zones, which the author of the petition is saying, for those of you in Dearborn, does not make them safer. That those who are behind that mandate can remove themselves from the rules is unAmerican

In your summary you project that Obama will do nothing. That is not the point. Getting Americans to do something is what I celebrate. The chain of fear that inhibits any American from speaking out may be cloaked in your argument that it's a waste of time but it's still a chain of fear of some kind of reprisal by the government. When you write on Free Republic that this kind of action is a waste of time you are discouraging people to voice their discontent. That too is unAmerican. Why would you want to dissuade people from adding their voice to an increasing number of people who do not agree with you that it is a waste of time?

Again, I ask you for a clarification on a point. The third item in your conclusion, the petition calls for the OPPOSITE of what you really want, which is silly. If you believe the petition should be abandoned is it because it is actually calling for the elite to live by the same rules they have US living by? What is so silly about that?

I think arming teachers is the most sensible route to take. The leftist elite will never let that happen without a fight. I see this petition as an opening jab in that fight. Are opening jabs a waste of time for a fighter?

19 posted on 01/08/2013 12:57:45 PM PST by MurrietaMadman (Stop with the negative waves, Moriarity.)
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To: MurrietaMadman
I will try to quote enough from your post to make it clear what I am responding to, without quoting the entire thing. My apologies if I mess this up...

The issue is the Second Amendment.

Agree.

I see this petition as an avenue of resistance to the efforts of the left.

But the petition offers no resistance. It will get no more coverage than an op-ed to a local paper, and it capitulates to the idea of Gun Free Zones by calling for the "elite" to live by them, rather than calling for the abolishing of Gun Free Zones.

... then you are expressing a continued willingness to maintain the republican leadership reactive strategy which as far as I can tell is helping to bury our side.

I don't agree that finding the petition approach useless means I think the leadership approach is useful. There are more than two choices.

You write The worst part of the petition is that it is calling for something that nobody here actually supports. I ask you to clarify that.

Certainly. The petition calls for secret service protection to be removed from the President and other government officials, and from Sidwell Friends school. I quote:

Eliminate armed guards for the President, Vice-President, and their families, and establish Gun Free Zones around them.
My assertion is that you and others supporting the petition do NOT want the result to be the removal of armed guards, but rather the elimination of Gun-Free zones. so the petition calls for something nobody here supports.

Your following observation, Anyway, as a practical matter, Sidwell Friends should absolutely have more guards than a normal school. Every kid in Sidwell Friends is at increased risk of harm because there are high-value targets attending the school. seems to suggest that [class distinctions] is what you believe

I could have been clearer - the "high-value targets" are the children of the President, and they are "high-value" because our enemies would seek to use the children of the President to send a message. And I most certainly support Secret Service protection for that school, as I would for a public school if they attended such a school. It isn't about class, it is about keeping our enemies from using members of our government or their families to attack our government.

I support Secret Service protection for any member of our government who is at risk of attack because of their service to our country. That is the purpose of the Secret Service, and it has nothing to do with "class distinctions".

If you wanted to make the point about class distinctions, it should be directed at how rich people can afford to send their kids to schools that have armed guards. Although perversely, that is a bad attack because as conservatives we argue that money itself not evil, and people deserve to use their money as they see fit; again the issue isn't that rich people spend their money protecting their kids, the issue is that the government puts the public school children in "Gun Free Zones" that don't protect them.

That you appear to accept the occasional mass shooting in schools that "are about the safest place kids can be, on average" probably wouldn't be a comfort to parents of any future children who may be killed or maimed in a Gun Free Zone.

No doubt. Just as no parent who actually suffers the loss of a child for ANY reason would be comforted by knowing what the probability was of that child being lost for that reason. It is an emotional argument that cannot be answered, except to keep the objective argument for those who haven't been directly impacted. The left knows this, and that's why they try to bring the victims front and center. It's why we sent money to starving kids in Africa but not South America, and why Haiti Relief spends money advertising pictures of Haiti suffering to make us feel bad and give them money.

Even without the occasional drug addled shooter, schools are no way the safest place kids can be for many reasons. Keeping them in government mandated Gun Free Zones, which the author of the petition is saying, for those of you in Dearborn, does not make them safer.

By any measure, children are safer during the hours they are in public schools than the hours they are not. That doesn't mean schools can't be safer, or that Gun Free Zones have made them safer. It is just that, for the most part, schools are run in a manner that keeps kids from getting into accidents, and most criminals do seem to draw the line at shooting up schools, in no small part I'm sure because there is no money in it.

Getting rid of Gun Free Zone designations, by allowing armed teachers and administrators, might make schools safer -- but certainly not "safe". The chances of an armed teacher being able to stop a gunman before they even start are low. In Sandy Hook, if half the teachers had guns, and the Principal had a gun, it still would have been quite possible that the principal would have been shot before knowing there was a clear threat, and the gunman would have a 50/50 chance of getting into a room without a teacher, meaning one class of kids killed behind a locked door.

Which from a macro point of view would be better than two, but certainly, as you put it, not a comfort to the parents of the kids in the first room.

Anyway, I oppose Gun Free Zones, and nothing I said was to argue otherwise. I'm saying that schools are already safe, and the left is using a highly abnormal occurrence to argue otherwise to push their agenda. Schools were safe before gun-free-zones, and they are safe now, because there are just so few people who decide to shoot up a school that it is unlikely their decisions can be averaged into any pattern.

In your summary you project that Obama will do nothing. That is not the point.

That was my point, and it was the point raised in the article posted, suggesting that Obama would have to address it if they got enough signatures.

Getting Americans to do something is what I celebrate.

I argue that getting them to do something worthless is nothing to celebrate. It is a waste, like getting kids to do useless "clean-up projects" to make them feel good about the environment -- the kids, and the Americans, will figure out that they were given busy-work and will tune out.

The chain of fear that inhibits any American from speaking out may be cloaked in your argument that it's a waste of time but it's still a chain of fear of some kind of reprisal by the government.

Those who fear reprisal aren't signing the petition. But the petition is a waste of time because it is a waste of time. As I said, you could make the petition "Get rid of gun free zones", include the same supporting text, and the petition at least would be slightly less of a waste of time.

When you write on Free Republic that this kind of action is a waste of time you are discouraging people to voice their discontent. That too is unAmerican. Why would you want to dissuade people from adding their voice to an increasing number of people who do not agree with you that it is a waste of time?

15,000 people signed. It appears that most people think it is a waste of time. I am not MAKING it a waste of time, just pointing out the fact. And yes, I am discouraging people from wasting their time on a lousy vehicle for voicing their discontent. I'd rather they focus on something useful, like writing their members of congress, speaking at their local school board, writing op-eds, commenting on articles in the paper, and sending money to groups that actually are working on the problem.

I think arming teachers is the most sensible route to take. The leftist elite will never let that happen without a fight. I see this petition as an opening jab in that fight. Are opening jabs a waste of time for a fighter?

I agree that arming teachers, or at least allowing them to arm themselves, is a good thing. I don't think it will particularly help. If we had 100 shootings in schools each year, I would then argue that arming teachers would lead to a real reduction. But there are so few shootings that statistics just don't matter. If only ONE person does something, you have no way of knowing if any particular thing you do to discourage it will help or not.

I don't think "opening jabs" are a waste of time. However, to use that analogy, if after the opening bell the fighter knocks out the referee, and then goes to a corner and starts beating on the corner post, I would say that they are wasting their time. You have to actually HIT the opponent for it to be helpful, and this petition does not do that.

If I had to raise one objection, and one only, it would be this: If the petition got 25,000 signatures, and Obama actually took it up, and decided to do exactly what the petition called on him to do -- we would actually be WORSE OFF than we are now.

20 posted on 01/08/2013 1:36:48 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: MurrietaMadman
BTW, if you want to understand how the petition process actually "works", you should go to this link:

Message: President Obama about your petitions to reduce gun violence

This link provides the government "response" to the 25,000-signature threshold for 32 different petitions regarding the gun violence issue, of which the petition mentioned above would be a part, if it had been filed earlier -- there are many petitions listed in this response that had fewer signatures.

These 32 petitions included leftist petitions to get rid of guns, and petitions we would support about putting armed guards in schools.

The "response" to all is Obama's boilerplate that we need to ban assault weapons. Yes, if you got 25,000 signatures, or even if you hadn't, but just had submitted this petition earlier, this petition would have been part of the group for which the response was to take away our 2nd amendment rights.

Anybody looking at that page linked above, seeing all the signatures on all the petitions, and reading the response, would recognize how useless this petition is, and what a waste of time it is to keep pushing it on Free Republic.

BTW, among the petitions addressed on the link:

  1. Stop any legislation that will ban "assualt weapons", semi-automatic rifles or handguns and high capacity magazines. - 31,094 signatures
  2. Place Security Guards in Schools Nationwide: The Safe & Sound Schools Initiative - 2991 signatures
  3. Allow individual School Districts and/or schools the ability to train staff to be School Marshalls. - 1999 signatures
  4. Keep guns in America! No weapons ban! - 4334 signatures
  5. Employ competent veterans as armed security guards for America's schools - 2568 signatures
  6. hire military veterans as armed resource officers in all public schools throughout America. - 2252 signatures
  7. No More Gun Control - 3519 signatures
  8. Stop Demonizing Guns - 1270 signatures
  9. End the gun free zones and we the people demand a vote on the Citizens Protection Act H.R. 2613 - 5499 Signatures
What these all have in common is that they call for things we would WANT. The petition in this article calls for a thing we DON'T want. If people wanted to sign a petition, they should have signed that last one listed, that called for elimination of gun free zones.

But it still is a waste -- Obama used that petition to call for an assault weapons ban, and to say that anybody that disagrees with him is unreasonable (with his typical "REASONABLE PEOPLE would agree..." statements).

21 posted on 01/08/2013 1:51:57 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Responding somewhat in similar fashion.

But the petition offers no resistance. It will get no more coverage than an op-ed to a local paper, and it capitulates to the idea of Gun Free Zones by calling for the "elite" to live by them, rather than calling for the abolishing of Gun Free Zones.

The petition, as I see it, is an avenue of resistance. Those who sign it are offering the resistance. I doubt any signer expects the leftist elite to bend to our wishes on the basis of this petition anymore than we would expect them to respond to a petition to abolish Gun Free Zones. It is one more way to tell them to back off. Surely you can see the value in that. If you don't think they are tracking the numbers and the steady manner the numbers are accumulating you are fooling yourself.

My assertion is that our calling for an end to armed protection for them, not in the same deceptive way the leftist elite is calling for our disarmament, has more Constituional footing than they'll ever have as established by the Bill of Rights.

Encouraging Americans to address authority is hardly like encouraging kids to do mindless tasks to appreciate the environment. I have friends who have been involved in various political issues who had a do not cross line because they feared being on a list. We were not meant to live like that. Our Constitution stipulates the power belongs to the people, not to those who slither into political office and corrupt the American Way until we're graduating socialists from elementary school and Middle America rubs their eyes one day, looks around and suddenly feels like strangers in a very strange land.

You keep saying this petition is a waste of time. You suggest instead "...they focus on something useful, like writing their members of congress, speaking at their local school board, writing op-eds, commenting on articles in the paper, and sending money to groups that actually are working on the problem." as if people who would sign this petition aren't doing such things.

But what makes you think such activities are not also a waste of time? Do you have the same advice for those who do indulge in such pastimes? Aren't those methods merely avenues of resistance also?

And to respond to your BTW post, I did look into the subjects of previous petitions and did notice the various leftist demands and I never thought I'd be signing one of these petitions.

This one caught my fancy. Someone pointed out the alinski-ness of it's nature and for that alone, I would value it. But having a direct means of communication available where thousands can express their unique American nature to those who are trying to kill it is, like the credit card company says, priceless.

22 posted on 01/08/2013 4:43:53 PM PST by MurrietaMadman (Stop with the negative waves, Moriarity.)
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To: MurrietaMadman

You just have to realize that a thread similar to this gets posted every day, sometimes twice a day, and often by people who chastise others for not signing.

An op-ed is an attempt to educate other people who might read the op-ed. A letter to a congressman, if combined with thousands of others, has been shown to influence their vote. I’ve seen the NRA convert votes in the house and senate, and I’ve seen other groups also get politicians to sway their way, so giving money to organizations seems also to be useful.

I don’t oppose resistance, I just don’t find useless resistance useful, nor am I a fan of “sending a message” by calling for actions we oppose in the hopes that people will notice the irony.


23 posted on 01/08/2013 7:14:16 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Any resistance to evil is useful.


24 posted on 01/09/2013 12:20:29 PM PST by MurrietaMadman (Stop with the negative waves, Moriarity.)
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