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Illinois clergy endorse gay marriage bill
Chicago Tribune ^ | December 24, 2012 | Manya A. Brachear

Posted on 12/28/2012 5:11:18 AM PST by 1010RD

Edited on 12/28/2012 5:14:39 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

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To: USAF80
The whole purpose of adoption --- properly speaking --- is to help a kid who needs a mom and dad. It is there to serve the child's needs, not the adults' desires.

For that reason alone, pseudomarrieds should not be adopting kids: because by definition they are, deliberately and long-term, depriving him either of a father or of a mother. It is not in the best interest of children to be thrust without his consent into the household of a sexually- unbalanced couple.

And by "unbalanced" I mean "failing to provide the standard natural balance of male and one female." (Grrr, whatever happened to 50/50 gender quota where you really need it??)

The same goes for the commercial human-breeding technologies: males hiring a woman to produce a baby for them (reproductive concubinage). Or, on the other hand, donor-insemination (more accurately: vendor-insemination) where a woman or a couple of women buy the component they fancy (a few mililiters of seminal fluid) and ditch the component they don't fancy (the man himself--- the baby's father) ---

The state's "public interest" in human reproduction should be solely to secure the rights of the dependent child. A child's first natural right is to have a bond with his natural fathers and mother. If the natural father and mother are strictly unable to personally secure the child's right, then the child at least as a right to a man and a woman who can act as father and mother. Anything that deliberately obstructs that end--- that blocks the functional equivalent of a natural family --- should be curbed by law. Or a least not legalized, valorized, incentivized and subsidized.

51 posted on 12/28/2012 12:11:01 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: USAF80
The whole purpose of adoption --- properly speaking --- is to help a kid who needs a mom and dad. It is there to serve the child's needs, not the adults' desires.

For that reason alone, pseudomarrieds should not be adopting kids: because by definition they are, deliberately and long-term, depriving him either of a father or of a mother. It is not in the best interest of children to be thrust without his consent into the household of a sexually- unbalanced couple.

And by "unbalanced" I mean "failing to provide the standard natural balance of one male and one female." (Grrr, whatever happened to the demand for a 50/50 gender quota where you really need it??)

The same goes for the commercial human-breeding technologies: males hiring a woman to produce a baby for them (reproductive concubinage). Or, on the other hand, donor-insemination (more accurately: vendor-insemination) where a woman or a couple of women buy the component they fancy (a few mililiters of seminal fluid) and ditch the component they don't fancy (the man himself--- the baby's father) ---

The state's "public interest" in human reproduction should be solely to secure the rights of the dependent child. A child's first natural right is to have a bond with his natural fathers and mother. If the natural father and mother are strictly unable to personally secure the child's right, then the child at least as a right to a man and a woman who can act as father and mother. Anything that deliberately obstructs that end--- that blocks the functional equivalent of a natural family --- should be curbed by law. Or a least not legalized, valorized, incentivized and subsidized.

52 posted on 12/28/2012 12:12:10 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: GWfan
"Here is a gay friendly list but this list is linked to the gay marriage article.
http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/us_illinois.htm" I surely hope that even if a Christian Church is "gay friendly" that they are adamantly opposed to "gay marriage".
53 posted on 12/28/2012 12:34:31 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: Flavious_Maximus

When did Beck endorse “queer marriage”? I’m shocked to see this?


54 posted on 12/28/2012 12:35:10 PM PST by miele man
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To: NoRedTape

“I surely hope that even if a Christian Church is “gay friendly” that they are adamantly opposed to “gay marriage”.

I would suggest you take a look at the Episcopal Church. This increasingly apostate church not only is “gay friendly” but is leading the parade toward perdition with its secular progressive agenda of “blessing of same sex marriages” among other things.


55 posted on 12/28/2012 12:52:14 PM PST by miele man
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To: 1010RD

The Word states the reason for homosexuality and the acts practiced by all who have similar perverted interests. It tells us it is shame to even speak of them; much less “ treat them lovingly. To wish them well or enable them is to partake with them. Liberals always change our devinely sanctioned rights to flee and avoid evil into “descrimination”.

What The Creator labels an abomination is just that and those who practice, support or condone it can’t call themselves believers. They have held the words of The Almighty of no account.


56 posted on 12/28/2012 4:11:23 PM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: 1010RD

I could see some having no issue with man’s law permitting this but to CELEBRATE sin is a perversion of the cloth.


57 posted on 12/28/2012 5:12:15 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: ICE-FLYER

Also we are born naked. The determination of APPROPRIATE clothing is determined by cultural norms of society.

The DESIRE to wear the clothing of the OPPOSITE sex is purely mental, not physical. No genetic component.


58 posted on 12/28/2012 5:19:17 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: miele man

The Episcopal church hasn’t been Christian in a very long time.


59 posted on 12/28/2012 5:24:30 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Yes, you are so right. I left “it” (normally I would say “her”)in 1987. I was asked to come back to fight one more battle so I did in ‘89. That lasted about 7 months. Haven’t been back since. I attend a very traditional and orthodox Anglican parish that uses the old Prayer Book (1929 BCP)


60 posted on 12/28/2012 7:49:52 PM PST by miele man
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“I would argue that the heart of the question does not require an evaluation of homosexuality as a trait (a tendency or personality variation) but does demand an evaluation of marriage.

Namely, in a world with a huge number of friendship and relationship possibilities, how is marriage uniquely suited only for a male and a female?

Most forms of friendship between adults occur without any external ceremonies, licensing, or regulations. It is assumed that two adults (or three, or any number of adults) will regulate their quilting circle, their bowling team, their fitness-walking-buddyhood, their joint foodie explorations, their gabfests, their romances and amours, or whatever, according to their own preferenes and without public recognition or oversight.

If the adults’ relationship involves money, or property, or goods or services, that’s what private contracts are all about: again, the adults are assumed capable of contracting to their own mutual satisfaction.

In sum: adults don’t need oversight to regulate their relations with colleagues, friends, or lovers.

How is marriage between a woman and a man different from this? Because their sexual union (formalized in marriage) is the only kind of sexual union which can bring forth dependent offspring. And there needs to be an institution which keeps the man and the woman together with any children they bear.

In other words, marriage is not essentially about the intimate relations of adults. Theyu can manage that as they like. Marriage is essentially a bond between a potentially procreating couple, and the children who result from the bond.

If it were not for the possibility of begetting, the state would have no legitimate interest in the relationships of adults per se. There is no PUBLIC interest in regulating romances and love affairs. The PUBLIC interest is in securing the rights of dependent children by recognizing and defending their bond with their natural father and mother.”

Very well articulated and thought out. I remember one of the higher ups at a job I worked at a few years back. He was homosexual and complained about marriage being defined as between a man and a woman. I thought(though did not say for fear of losing my job) what is he worried for? No matter how hard he tries, he will never get pregnant. Why does he “need” for the government to actually become more involved and have power over his personal life than it does now?


61 posted on 12/28/2012 9:15:44 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: 1010RD

Homosexuality isn’t normal,sane or safe behavior.It is deviant behavior that leads to long term mental or physical problems.Having something in common with someone else,like having the same junk,should not make for urges to bang one’s gender.It should result in seeking out the opposite gender.

Gay marriage is destined to end dismally,like any other social experiment based on a dubious foundation.

I highly doubt God would ever endorse any form of homosexuality,he wants sane and loving people.Homosexuals just don’t fit that bill.


62 posted on 12/28/2012 11:58:00 PM PST by Del Rapier
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To: MinuteGal; 1010RD; mickie; oswegodeee; flaglady47; Chigirl 26; Bushbacker1; prairiebreeze; ...
>> I was delighted (and not at all surprised) to note that there was NOT ONE Lutheran church, Missouri Synod (LCMS - my synod) included in the list of hereticals and apostates. <<

The LCMS is much more conservative than the ELCA, so it's not surprising no LCMS churches ended up on the list of "gay friendly" churches. If any LCMS are "gay friendly", they're obviously confused and in the wrong denomination, and ought to join the ELCA.

>> I'm still interested if anyone finds the list of those clergy who signed the endorsement with their approval of the gay marriage legislation. <<

I'd like to see the actual list too, since the Tribune conveniently didn't print it. Those pastors and congregations were bold enough to make a public statement so they should have to deal with the consequences. Any Catholic parish (at least, a real Catholic Church in communion with the Pope, not a fake "Independent Catholic" one) would be in grave defiance of church teaching if they endorse gay marriage, and there should be immediate action taken by their bishop (I don't expect Cardinal George would grow a pair and do anything about it though, he lets that heretical Obama-loving "Father" Pfleger do whatever he wants). Any SBC Southern Baptist parish endorsing gay marriage would also be in direct defiance of their church's teachings, though there's probably several black SBC parishes in Chicago that are very pro-Obama, and unlike the Catholic Church, I don't think the SBC could enforce any of their doctrines. Mormons are very adamently against gay marriage too, though there's next to no Mormons in Illinois despite this state being the former HQ of the LDS.

>> the list of gay-friendly churches in Illinois <<

My guess is the bulk of the "gay marriage" signatories were Unitarian "churches" (some Unitarians don't even believe in God, why anyone would join one of their "churches" is beyond me... it would be like eating at a KFC that doesn't serve chicken). Also, virtually all the United Church of Christ parishes (Obama's "black power" church obviously eager to suck up to him) and probably quite a few liberal Episcopalian and Methodist parishes. Probably a lot of Reform Jewish rabbis signed it too, along with some "Conservative" Jewish rabbis (I doubt any Orthodox Jews did, though)

Nothing like helping destroy western civilization to be hip and trendy, ya know. Ironically I bet most of these "inclusive" churches are struggling to stay open. That's what happens when you take Christ out of Christianity.

63 posted on 12/28/2012 11:59:46 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: 1010RD

THIS is Taking God’s Name in Vain!! Pretty sure God does NOT want GAY MARRIAGE!!!


64 posted on 12/29/2012 1:39:55 AM PST by Ann Archy (ABORTION........the HUMAN sacrifice to the god of CONVENIENCE.)
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To: Flavious_Maximus
Who is the homo that is backing Beck and Gingrich??

I find it's usually because they have a RELATIVE that's gay.

65 posted on 12/29/2012 1:42:01 AM PST by Ann Archy (ABORTION........the HUMAN sacrifice to the god of CONVENIENCE.)
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To: 1010RD

I wonder how many black clergy are in that 250 number?


66 posted on 12/29/2012 1:57:44 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: 1010RD

Jesus was not compassionate towards sin. Obviously these pastors and rabbis put sympasizing with sin above condemning sin. Jesus was big on telling sinners to repent and sin no more.


67 posted on 12/29/2012 5:14:39 AM PST by RginTN
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To: longtermmemmory

Deception is the modus operandi of the Progressive movement. They lied about capitalism and capitalists back at the turn of the last century and it is the tool of their master.

Note that the photos emphasize the “blackness” of the endorsement. This is an attempt to mold and sway blacks into the pro-homosexual camp.


68 posted on 12/29/2012 5:47:56 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: sassy steel magnolia

God will hold the apostate accountable, but not the ill people of IL.


69 posted on 12/29/2012 8:08:46 AM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: Del Rapier
Gay marriage is destined to end dismally,like any other social experiment based on a dubious foundation.

The flamers could care less about an institution they despise. They want marriage so that they can appear normal. Once we get used to the idea of them being just like us they will push to teach the crap in schools.

This is the homo agenda. Destroy marriage as we know it and then confuse children. Only twisted minds would discus fisting, toys and other deviant sexual practices to kindergarten age kids.

70 posted on 12/29/2012 9:51:31 AM PST by USAF80
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To: 1010RD

...I wouldn’t really count the snake handlers as an official church....


71 posted on 12/29/2012 4:04:08 PM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
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To: jsanders2001

I for one am embarassed by the other residents of Illinois.


72 posted on 12/29/2012 9:02:19 PM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: reg45

I have received several responses from conservative folks in Illinois. I am shocked. I thought the whole state was liberal. Sorry if I offended any good folks up there and actually relieved that there are a few there. Now please straighten out the rest of the sorry lot of them...lol


73 posted on 12/30/2012 5:10:37 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: 1010RD
(Art.) On Sunday, rabbis and pastors from denominations that support gay rights in varying degrees unveiled a declaration supporting equality for same-sex couples. Fostering faith, justice and compassion is a key component of their jobs, they said.

As is being leaned on by the Regime to line up and salute a moral atrocity with the imprint of Lord Moloch on it.

So who put this together? Rahm "Call Me" Emmanuel, or "Osagyefo King Down-Low the First" hisself?

74 posted on 12/31/2012 8:39:48 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Salvation

Hit “post” just once, even if it seems not to be doing anything. It does that a lot.


75 posted on 12/31/2012 8:43:37 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: 1010RD; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

76 posted on 12/31/2012 8:47:37 PM PST by narses
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To: 1010RD; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

77 posted on 12/31/2012 8:48:24 PM PST by narses
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To: FlingWingFlyer
This country sure is obsessed with homosexuality.

So which side are you on, dearie?

Such a troublous issue ... and you post on it so often, and yet manage to land dexterously on your toes.

So are you calling all the hets "deviants", clever fellow?

78 posted on 12/31/2012 8:49:01 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: NoRedTape
I surely hope that even if a Christian Church is "gay friendly" that they are adamantly opposed to "gay marriage".

Sorry, FReeper, but there's a fat chance of that. This is the eruption-point (think MRSA) of a long-running seminary cabal some 45 years in preparation.

These people are hardened and confirmed perverts, determined to overthrow the moral order and have their way in every venue, including inside the sanctuaries of the biggest churches. All must acquiesce in homosexual sodomy, pederasty, exotic paraphilias, blackhearted perversion, and every degree and kind of amorality.

79 posted on 12/31/2012 8:54:27 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You are abosultely correct and your comments are truly insightful. We cannot leave children out of the marriage debate. Kids need two parents and those parents need to be married. That on average drives the best results for the woman, the man, the children and their society. That’s the historical fact and the science is catching up to it.

That said, my argument is on one narrative we’ve heard from the pro-homosexual lobby - that homosexuality is normal. That’s a logical fallacy called: equivocation. Normal has more than one meaning. Clearly, same-gender attraction isn’t ideal.

We have to push back against the reigning secularism and in my opinion do so using the very same tools the left uses. Here in this article they’re attacking us using a faith-based approach. These clergy are counterfeits in the same way the Chinese have a fake Dalai Lama.

Turnabout is fair play, especially when the facts and reality are on our side. Same-gender attraction is most likely a mental illness caused by epigenetic effects in the womb as well as a child’s environment.

Most people don’t know the history of how homosexuality was removed from the DSM. Here it is and as told by liberals:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/204/81-Words

Use it to sway the masses who are being groomed on the meme that homosexuality is “normal”.

We need many tacks to drive the argument back to God’s reality. Homosexuality is unhealthy physically. It is a mental illness which doesn’t make them evil, but points out a cure - spiritual, psychological or as a medical/chemical intervention.

That’s the only meme that will win against the Pink Mafia. Love (charity) the sinner and hate the sin - show that the sin is an abnormal result which is treatable and reversable (hope). Show it over and over again by sharing the best science we have including the above history by the liberals at NPR (faith).

We’ve then testified through faith, hope and charity (all of which endure eternally) using secular science and history. It’s a win-win.


80 posted on 01/01/2013 5:48:43 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: jsanders2001

Here’s the history of Cook County Democrats in Illinois:

http://www.amazon.com/Gambler-King-Clark-Street-ebook/dp/B008PPPL42/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Here’s a little background on him, but if you want to understand the urban Democrat mindset read the above book.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=10741444

Please have a little pity on us.


81 posted on 01/01/2013 5:53:20 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: theBuckwheat

That’s great and I agree, but you’re talking to a fellow Christian. In politics you do a SWOT analysis and afterward your greatest attacks will be against the enemies Strength.

The Pink Mafia has been selling the “I’m normal, loving and just like you” civil rights meme. It goes back to the apocryphal Lincoln quote comparing a Negro to a white, but put a dog up there and you can see that a Negro is a person.

They’re deeply invested in this idea and have been using the emotional appeal (the faith based attacks are the same) to promote their agenda. Science hasn’t been kind to them, though. It appears most likely that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic effects during pregnancy combined with environmental factors in the child’s life.

Emphasizing our strength to a secular worldview needs a secular argument without abandoning our God-given truths. Ours should be two-fold: 1. Science is pointing us toward the origin and hence a cure for same-gender attraction and 2. It is unhealthy as a lifestyle - phsyically and emotionally/psychologically not only for the participant, but for children involved with the participant(s) in their role as parents.

Toss in the purpose of marriage - procreation - and the need for children to have the unique traits of both parents and you’ll turn back homosexual marriage. The risk is the mushy middle- those people that know God’s arguments, but for whom the emotional appeal and equivocacy argument hold sway.


82 posted on 01/01/2013 6:06:06 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
Again, most of these "churches" will be found listed on the list of National Council of Churches.

If you are a member of one of these "churches", you might make a New Year's resolution to leave. We left the apostate ELCA for the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and have never been sorry.

• African Methodist Episcopal Church
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists
• American Baptist Churches in the USA
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
• Church of the Brethren
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
• The Episcopal Church
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Friends United Meeting
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• International Council of Community Churches
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
• National Baptist Convention of America
• National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
• Orthodox Church in America
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
• Polish National Catholic Church of America
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
• Reformed Church in America
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
• The Swedenborgian Church
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
• United Church of Christ
• The United Methodist Church •

83 posted on 01/01/2013 6:10:20 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: CatherineofAragon

If you ‘totally disagree’ then you’re missing the best science we have right now. There isn’t a homosexual gene. There is significant evidence for an epigenetic effect on a devoloping baby. These hormones give a disposition toward same-gender attraction. Throw in the example you gave and you end up with a practicing homosexual. They’re sexually immature and mentally ill.

The above information is important because once we know the cause we can find the cure. Therapies exist to cure homosexuality. That’s the good news for parents and children as well as adults with same-gender attraction.

Furthermore, the fact is that more girls and boys are molested than turn homosexual. The story you describe is one where a small minority of the population of all those molested as children become homosexual. So clearly, molestation doesn’t equal homosexuality, not on a one to one basis. There must be some other contributing factors or cause.

Everything is a choice, but a hormonal imbalance is a noted cause of many mental illnesses and can be cured or medicated.


84 posted on 01/01/2013 6:15:20 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Yep, but the truth doesn’t matter. It’s propaganda.


85 posted on 01/01/2013 8:33:21 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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