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Sen. Tom Coburn: I'm Willing to Accept Tax Increases
http://news.yahoo.com/sen-tom-coburn-im-willing-accept-tax-increases-163152570--abc-news-politics.html ^

Posted on 12/09/2012 1:17:09 PM PST by Orange1998

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To: TigersEye
You just proved my point.

Medicare Supplment is private insurance not Medicare, so you like a good liberal like to attack the private sector.

Medicare on average costs the taxpayers almost $12,000 per beneficiary, and only Part A is covered by the Medicare payroll tax. Both Part B and Part D are paid by general tax revenue, so neither your mother or anyone else “pre-paid” for Part B or D.

Explain how JohnsonCare(Medicare) is different than ObamaCare.

51 posted on 12/09/2012 2:43:51 PM PST by Conservative Actuary
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To: oh8eleven

“Your ignorance and hatred are beyond words. Do yourself a favor and STFU.”

Please see posts 10 and 21, I’m not the only person that sees this SELFISHNESS here.


52 posted on 12/09/2012 2:44:01 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: illiac

“I’m an elderly conservative....and I take exception to your post.”

You’re not alone, but at best you only represent half of the older people on this site. They rest want THEIR MONEY. But, I agree, there are a good number of people just like you that love the country and understand, full well, that the money is GONE, it’s been spent, it’s not there, and that my kids (and your kids and grandkids) are going to have to pony-up for them.


53 posted on 12/09/2012 2:46:18 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: tumblindice
Social Security, Medicare and ObamaCare are all just different versions of providing socialized programs to protect people against a risk that should be protected against by either charity or private industry. Unless you think FDR was some kind of conservative.
54 posted on 12/09/2012 2:47:39 PM PST by Conservative Actuary
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To: TigersEye
Medicare is free? Who told you that? My mother paid into it from every paycheck she ever got

And every dollar taken from her was given as welfare to someone else. Nothing was saved or invested to pay future disbursements upon her retirement. Now she is on welfare and those who still have jobs are paying for her.

and now pays over $3,000 per year in premiums for her Medicare supplemental insurance.

That's private insurance, nothing to do with the government welfare.

55 posted on 12/09/2012 2:47:51 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: Conservative Actuary

Everybody hates pork and entitlement spending, except for the pork and entitlements that they benefit from.


56 posted on 12/09/2012 2:48:30 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Conservative Actuary
Medicare Supplment is private insurance not Medicare, so you like a good liberal like to attack the private sector.

And if she didn't have that she wouldn't have any Medicare. Part D is for drugs and that also requires paying for a private insurance policy. We dropped that because we dropped all of her drugs. It isn't an attack on the private sector to point out the reality that she has to pay $3.2k per year for Medicare. Nice Alinsky tactic on the ad-hominem there, DUmmie.

57 posted on 12/09/2012 2:48:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Nervous Tick

“How old are you?”

In the middle - lots of years of work behind me, a good number ahead of me.

I made a point of making sure that my kids got through college with NO DEBT - and that meant staying clear of the “top tier” universities and doing other stuff to pay their way, real-time. I don’t like debt to begin with, but I HATE IT when it’s put on the backs of MY KIDS and they can’t do jack about it.


58 posted on 12/09/2012 2:48:59 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: Gunslingr3
That's private insurance, nothing to do with the government welfare.

I guess I didn't understand the bills I'm paying for her then. She can just drop that and the FedMob will pick up the whole bill from now on?

59 posted on 12/09/2012 2:51:29 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Gunslingr3
And every dollar taken from her was given as welfare to someone else.

And she's the selfish one for not dying or living on the streets? (assuming she could still understand a word of this which she can't)

60 posted on 12/09/2012 2:53:55 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: TigersEye
Once again the private insurance isn't part of Medicare it only covers some of the cost sharing she otherwise would have. If she dropped that she would still have Part A and Part B.

Just because people have to pay some fee doesn't mean it isn't welfare, most people will be paying some portion of their premiums in the ObamaCare exchanges.

In two years you will be posting here telling me to stop attacking the ObamaCare subsidies in the Exchanges because people are paying some fraction of the cost out of pocket.

61 posted on 12/09/2012 2:54:19 PM PST by Conservative Actuary
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“You don’t think that tax increases will get us entitlement reform? You don’t believe that, do you?

Please tell me you don’t believe that.”

Don’t worry - I’m with you. Tax increases won’t do jack for entitlement reform, unless the reform is done first and signed off into law BEFORE the tax increases (and fat chance for that).

No, I’ve given up on entitlement reform because half of the older people, ON THIS SITE, are HELL-BENT on collecting what they see as “their money” and could care less what kind of debt that leaves my kids with. So, if half of people on the most conservative large-scale site in this country want THEIR MONEY without reservation, there absolutely NO WAY that entitlements could ever be reformed.

So I’m beyond that. Now I just want to find a way to pay them the money that THEY DEMAND real-time, instead of dumping it on my kids. My kids don’t deserve this treatment - they are just now getting old enough to vote - this mess was not due to them - so I don’t want them stuck with these debts.

So, I simply want US ALL to pay our bills TODAY, instead of borrowing trillions more. But yes, reform of entitlements is TOTALLY HOPELESS - the only hope for my kids is that they don’t keep getting debt stuck on their necks.


62 posted on 12/09/2012 2:56:10 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL
...I HATE IT when it’s put on the backs of MY KIDS and they can’t do jack about it.

But you LIKE IT that old people were suckered into thinking they were paying into a retirement fund and are being asked to just do without it and can't do jack about it.

63 posted on 12/09/2012 2:57:14 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: tumblindice
those who say we old farts should just `write it all off’ so their children can have that money (that isn’t there anyway), well, they can go s*** in their hats.

That's why the country is screwed. You had to pay for welfare, so you want welfare too. The cycle will never end, they'll just keep inflating the currency (with all the harm it does to the real economy and the savings of those who live within their means) and buying the votes.

It's not a matter of 'their children can have that money', it's that we don't want higher and higher taxes for ourselves and our children to continue this naked ponzi. I want my kids to have THEIR money, not be forced by the federal government to give it to you (on top of the debt they'll be left regardless to finance into perpetuity).

64 posted on 12/09/2012 2:57:50 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: tumblindice
those who say we old farts should just `write it all off’ so their children can have that money (that isn’t there anyway), well, they can go s*** in their hats.

That's why the country is screwed. You had to pay for welfare, so you want welfare too. The cycle will never end, they'll just keep inflating the currency (with all the harm it does to the real economy and the savings of those who live within their means) and buying the votes.

It's not a matter of 'their children can have that money', it's that we don't want higher and higher taxes for ourselves and our children to continue this naked ponzi. I want my kids to have THEIR money, not be forced by the federal government to give it to you (on top of the debt they'll be left regardless to finance into perpetuity).

65 posted on 12/09/2012 2:58:14 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: Conservative Actuary
In two years you will be posting here telling me to stop attacking the ObamaCare subsidies in the Exchanges because people are paying some fraction of the cost out of pocket.

That's even dumber than your other comments.

66 posted on 12/09/2012 2:58:53 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Orange1998
Republican Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) told me Sunday on ABC News' "This Week" that he is willing to accept tax rate increases as a component of a fiscal cliff deal, as long as Democrats put "significant entitlement reform" on the table.

The you need to leave office, Coburn.
67 posted on 12/09/2012 2:59:42 PM PST by arderkrag (An Unreconstructed Georgian, Forever in Rebellion.)
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To: Gunslingr3

The Philippines


68 posted on 12/09/2012 3:00:42 PM PST by Mark17 (California, where English is a foreign language)
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To: Orange1998

Didn’t think it possible, but I’ve come to despise Republicans as much, or more than Democrats.


69 posted on 12/09/2012 3:02:57 PM PST by cblue55 (The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.)
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To: TigersEye

Really, your the one defending LBJ policy.


70 posted on 12/09/2012 3:02:59 PM PST by Conservative Actuary
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To: Conservative Actuary

I’m not defending any policy I am addressing the reality of cutting those benefits. When all you have are straw men arguments and ad-hominems it means you have nothing of substance or simply have no interest in discussing the substance.


71 posted on 12/09/2012 3:05:11 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: TigersEye

“But you LIKE IT that old people were suckered into thinking they were paying into a retirement fund and are being asked to just do without it and can’t do jack about it. “

They KNEW FULL WELL that their money was being spent as it came in, and then some. I can even remember, DECADES AGO, when I started working - everyone in my age group was saying that the money would not be there for them when they retired.

It was NO SECRET, everyone knew the money was being spent as it came in. But all I’m asking for now is that we tax ourselves to meet those obligations, so that your generation can have its Winnebagos, just like the prior generation - I just don’t want the debt. I’ve already given up on you guys (can’t you tell), I just worry about my kids...because that means something, at least TO ME. The

For HEAVEN’S SAKE, they have $16 Trillion of debt on their backs TODAY - the least you guys can do, if you really want the money that bad, is agree to increase taxes enough to cover it.


72 posted on 12/09/2012 3:07:25 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: Orange1998
So "Dr. No" has become "Dr. Yes!!!"
73 posted on 12/09/2012 3:10:51 PM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: TigersEye
And she's the selfish one for not dying or living on the streets?

You want everyone else to pay for your mom. Why don't you? She's your mom. Why are you fobbing her off on the public dole?

They report that "A male reaching 65 years of age today (in 2000, the year of their study) can expect to receive $71,000 more in government 'transfer' benefits (of all kinds at both the federal and state levels, but mainly from Social Security and Medicare) than he will pay in taxes (of all kinds at both the federal and state levels) before he dies. A 65-year-old female can expect a net gain of more than twice that amount; she can expect $163,000 more in benefits than she will pay in taxes." - Walter Williams

You're welcome.

74 posted on 12/09/2012 3:12:37 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: BobL
They KNEW FULL WELL that their money was being spent as it came in, and then some. I can even remember, DECADES AGO, when I started working - everyone in my age group was saying that the money would not be there for them when they retired.

IOWs you are one of the "they." Funny how you like to disassociate yourself from 'them.'

... so that your generation can have its Winnebagos, just like the prior generation - I just don’t want the debt.

I don't want the debt either. I'm not living in any Winnebago. Assuming SS is still going nine years from now and I get my $65 dollars a month I won't be living in one then.

75 posted on 12/09/2012 3:13:55 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Tau Food

“I think your post helps explain why the tea party movement was not as prominent in this year’s election. Many, many seniors took to the streets to vocally oppose Obamacare, but they fully support Social Security and Medicare. “

...and most of them do this because they don’t want “to be a burden” to their children. That’s all good and fine, but when they don’t have the money in the bank, they become a burden to MY CHILDREN, instead - and I don’t like that.


76 posted on 12/09/2012 3:17:52 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: Gunslingr3
You want everyone else to pay for your mom. Why don't you? She's your mom. Why are you fobbing her off on the public dole?

I am her full time care taker. We both live on her $16k 'public dole.' I should take your advice and leave her and get a job. For $10 per hour. Hire a full time care taker for her and pay my own expenses. Or put her in a nursing home for $6k per month. I was never good at math so I didn't see before how easy this would be.

77 posted on 12/09/2012 3:17:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Orange1998

So the GOP position that such a tax increase would cause the loss of 700,000 jobs and affect small business was all a lie? How can Coburn accept such a deal?


78 posted on 12/09/2012 3:22:07 PM PST by kabar
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To: RIghtwardHo

Great news! everyone send their tax bills to Sen. Tom Coburn.
He’s willing to accept it.


79 posted on 12/09/2012 3:22:23 PM PST by Morris70
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To: TigersEye
There was a guy on the news just now, who had bought two english bulldog puppies for his two young daughters, $800 each, as Christmas presents.

The news story made it sound like he and his wife had sold jewelry, family heirlooms, etc to come up with the money. The sellers told him to pick up the puppies at the ATL Airport Kennel.

Do I feel sorry for him? Yeah, but do I think he should be able to pass on the price of his....whatever, to my kids?

What do you think?

80 posted on 12/09/2012 3:22:57 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Tau Food

The seniors went for Romney.


81 posted on 12/09/2012 3:23:12 PM PST by kabar
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To: TigersEye
If you are willing to accept that Medicare is welfare and our goal should be to completely repeal it. Then I agree that their are real practical issues about how to accomplish that. That is also why it will now be next to impossible to repeal ObamaCare because people will become dependent on it, just like people are dependent on SS or MediCare.

That is why in a few years people will be making the same argument for ObamaCare that we can’t repeal ObamaCare because my “Insert Relative Here” is paying X% of their income on insurance already and that will go up if they didn’t have ObamaCare and how will they survive.

That is why practically the GOP should be pushing for raising the eligibility age, means testing and privatization to overtime eliminate the programs.

You are the one that made the argument about you by brining up your mother, I simply responded to the argument you made. Plus you are the one who called my comment “dumb” so I don’t really think you want to claim my arguments invalid because of ad hominiem logic.

82 posted on 12/09/2012 3:23:18 PM PST by Conservative Actuary
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I am not following the connections you are trying to make there.


83 posted on 12/09/2012 3:24:55 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: TigersEye
I was never good at math so I didn't see before how easy this would be.

That explains how you can only earn $10/hr...

You think your problems should be everyone else's problem. Got it. The freedom you want is the freedom from reality that welfare provides.

84 posted on 12/09/2012 3:28:36 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: Tzimisce

It will work at first until they run out of other peoples money.


85 posted on 12/09/2012 3:29:14 PM PST by Orange1998 (Please DO NOT PRESS CTRL W)
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To: TigersEye

“Funny how you like to disassociate yourself from ‘them.’”

Not me...I’ve told my kids that they are EXPECTED to pay for their parents’ old age. We’ll work as long as we can, but the bottom-line is that we WILL NOT shove even more debt on the backs of strangers. They understand that is their obligation...and I feel sorry for those that didn’t bother getting that point across.


86 posted on 12/09/2012 3:29:42 PM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: TigersEye

The time to worry about getting taken is BEFORE you hand over the cash.


87 posted on 12/09/2012 3:36:06 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Orange1998
as long as Democrats put "significant entitlement reform" on the table

On the table? And then afterward they take if off the table just like they did to Bush I.

More Lucy vs. Charlie Brown action here.

88 posted on 12/09/2012 3:36:40 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Conservative Actuary
You are the one that made the argument about you by brining up your mother,...

Finally you make a post addressing the substance of the issues and suggest that solutions need to be found. Until you get to that point. I wasn't making an argument for starters. I was using a real world anecdote because I know the numbers involved in it to make a point. The fact is she is doing better than a lot of people. She has me to think and act on her behalf and however hard it is if her SS is cut or eliminated I will do something.

The point being is that millions of seniors have no wiggle room. You want to save the economy? So do I. You don't want to burden the younger generations? Neither do I. Personally I am not asking for anything. In the context of this political discussion I am pointing out that 'saving the chirren' by 'killing the old farts' is no more of a solution than 'saving the old farts' by 'killing the chirren.'

As for calling you dumb; once someone drops their pretense of discussing a subject rationally and starts in with the finger-pointing ad-hominem arguments, which you did, I cease to treat them seriously. You gave rational discussion a good shot but at the last moment you fell right back into the straw man misdirection.

89 posted on 12/09/2012 3:40:12 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Gunslingr3
You think your problems should be everyone else's problem. Got it.

If that is the conclusion you came to from what I said then you must be worth $5 per hour. Ad-hominem is the argument of the incapable.

90 posted on 12/09/2012 3:42:31 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: plain talk

The point is, you can make the pain of increasing taxes fall upon the DNC’s constituencies - which will result in phone calls and panic among their ranks, and suddenly the GOP is in the position to go on the talking-moron circuit and say “The Democrats wanted higher taxes. We gave them what they wanted - higher taxes. Now they’re complaining.”

The problem is that the GOP doesn’t know jack about how to handle people like the Democrats. There’s all manner of ways to hoist these morons on their own petard - but the GOP repeatedly carries water for those who are hostile to their own interests - for example, opposing copyright law changes, which is a position that the press, Disney, Hollywood and the movie companies want. What does the GOP own these liberal clowns? Nothing. So what is the GOP firing staffers who suggest doing something that would hurt liberal media interests?


91 posted on 12/09/2012 3:45:26 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Mozilla
Again, I'm going to ask you where are you going to get enough new people in sufficient numbers to win an election? With three parties, you're going to have to be able to defeat both the Democrats and the Republicans.

This cannot be done--it won't work. We already have something like 40 so-called "third parties". Isn't that enough and you think one more is going to do the trick.

Time for a reality check, fight inside the Republican party--it's the only way.

92 posted on 12/09/2012 3:47:07 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Orange1998

This is insanity. They are talking about sucking another $1.6 Trillion out of the private sector through increased taxes, without doing anything to cut spending. When the new taxes run out the deficit will be even larger and they’ll be asking for yet another tax increase on “the rich”. Only next time, there will be far fewer “rich” to fleece. They have the golden goose on the chopping block and are about to lower the axe. Going to war with the producers in America is national suicide.


93 posted on 12/09/2012 3:47:22 PM PST by littleharbour
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To: TigersEye
If that is the conclusion you came to from what I said then you must be worth $5 per hour.

My 'work' here pays $0/hr, but I make about $25/hr 40 hours a week and $125/hr for what I decide to do above and beyond that. The people who pay me do so of their own free will, so they must consider it worth it or they wouldn't.

Ad-hominem is the argument of the incapable.

You're the one who said you were bad at math and could only earn $10/hr, not I. I've simply read your posts and understand why you say that.

94 posted on 12/09/2012 3:49:00 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: BobL

I understand. On a personal level I feel the same way. That is why I am here taking care of my mother. It’s my job not someone else’s. If she failed to understand that the system was corrupt and broken during her working years that is on her. There is no going back now. If your children, who are barely of voting age, are incapable of doing JACK how much less are seniors with dementia capable of doing JACK? She voted for Republicans all of her life, as have I, and we have what we have today.


95 posted on 12/09/2012 3:50:55 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Aria
And why did they agree to this in the first place?

This was in the Reagan administration; the party satchems feared they would be called racist if they investigated voter fraud in black central cities. And then the next year Reagan signed the King Day Act. His advisers told him that King Day would cause blacks to consider voting Republican! King Day is becoming the No. 1 or No. 2 holiday nationwide. Without King Day, there could have been no Obama. And with a little help too from GWB! King Day really feeds into "white guilt".

96 posted on 12/09/2012 3:54:48 PM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: Gunslingr3
You're the one who said you were bad at math and could only earn $10/hr, not I. I've simply read your posts and understand why you say that.

Nonsense. It was a cheap shot designed to deflect from having to do any mental work on the equation I laid out. What I can expect to make is what I can expect to make. Your opinion of why that's what I would expect is worth $0. You chose the easy way out instead of participating like an adult.

97 posted on 12/09/2012 3:56:42 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Orange1998
How y'all feeling now Oklahoma? You got your very own resident turncoat. He fits in well with the douche bag, Richard Burr, we have here in NC. Almost makes you want to push for term limits don't it? You know we had that chance when Newt the Poot was in charge with getting 10 points in the Contract with America passed into law. Except, dog gone it, even though he paid monumental lip service to the absolute two most important items, namely term limits and a Balanced Budget Amendment, he just didn't find enough votes. Shucks. Guess instead of running around on his wife du jour, he should have found those votes. Imagine how much better life would be without the likes of Reid, Pelosi, Dingell, Durbin, Schumer, Harkin, Kerry, McCain, Hatch, Graham, McConnell et al. Now we can add Chambliss, Corker, and Coburn’s names to the list.
98 posted on 12/09/2012 4:26:34 PM PST by cashless (Obama told us he would side with Muslims if the political winds shifted in an ugly direction. Ready?)
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To: Theodore R.

Interesting...thanks for the info.

What a giant disaster that turned out to be.


99 posted on 12/09/2012 4:26:34 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: BobL
"I made a point of making sure that my kids got through college with NO DEBT"

"My kids don’t deserve this treatment - they are just now getting old enough to vote"

So which is true? Did they graduate from college debt-free, or are they just now getting old enough to vote?

Where should the cuts come from? Before those who have been compelled to pay in (since this is not a voluntary system) all their working lives are forced to forego what they've been promised, I would like to see exactly what other groups will lose benefits. A lot of the resentment is caused by the fact that non-citizens (exhibit A - Auntie Zeituni) who have paid exactly nothing into the system enter the U.S. and then spend the rest of their lives on the government dole, at the expense of working Americans. Will they be required to forego their "entitlements"? Not likely. And the people who have been the honest players and have done their part and followed the rules will take it in the shorts before the freeloaders such as this deadbeat dad are cut off.

"Deadbeat dad requests public support after fathering 30 children"

http://www.examiner.com/article/deadbeat-dad-asks-for-public-support-after-fathering-30-children

BTW, I'm not a senior - I'm squarely in the "sandwich" generation, but I recognize unfairness when I see it.

100 posted on 12/09/2012 4:28:37 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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