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Krauthammer On Fiscal Cliff Negotiations: "Republicans Ought To Simply Walk Away"
Real Clear Politics ^ | 11/29/2012 | Charles Krauthammer

Posted on 11/30/2012 1:50:01 AM PST by GVnana

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: It's not just a bad deal, this is really an insulting deal. What Geithner offered, what you showed on the screen, Robert E. Lee was offered easier terms at Appomattox, and he lost the Civil War. The Democrats won by 3% of the vote and they did not hold the House, Republicans won the house. So this is not exactly unconditional surrender, but that is what the administration is asking of the Republicans.

This idea -- there are not only no cuts in this, there's an increase in spending with a new stimulus. I mean, this is almost unheard of. What do they expect? They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything. I think the Republicans ought to simply walk away. The president is the president. He's the leader. They are demanding that the Republicans explain all the cuts that they want to make.

We had that movie a year-and-a-half ago where Paul Ryan presented a budget, a serious real budget with real cuts. Obama was supposed to gave speech where he would respond with a counter offer. And what did he do? He gave a speech where he had Ryan sitting in the front row. He called the Ryan proposal un-American, insulted him, offered nothing, and ran on Mediscare in the next 18 months.

And they expect the Republicans are going to do this again?

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: fiscalcliff; republicans
Video and full comments at link.
1 posted on 11/30/2012 1:50:07 AM PST by GVnana
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To: GVnana

I think the public deserves to hear everything out in the open. If city and county governments operate under the ‘sunshine law’....I think these folks ought to operate under the same standard. If the public understood what was going on....they’d start laughing just like McConnell.


2 posted on 11/30/2012 2:04:00 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: pepsionice

It is very clear who refuses to bring executive branch spending into line with the revenue the IRS takes in. It is Obama who refuses to play ball. The Speaker better start telling that VERY LOUDLY to the voters. If the so-called press won’t carry it, buy time on TV to address the public. Do something to get Republicans out of the line of fire.


3 posted on 11/30/2012 2:25:51 AM PST by Rapscallion ( OBAMA: You own it now. See if you can govern it.)
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To: Rapscallion
Do something to get Republicans out of the line of fire.

BOEHNER: Last year, the President offered spending cuts in exchange for revenue. We in the House agreed. This year, I don't know who I am negotiating with. This isn't President Obama. President Obama wants a long-term solution to our fiscal crisis and campaigned on reducing the deficit. The man I have been negotiating with wants spending increases and to double the deficit....

...take Obama's stump speech after he blew the first debate, do a little word substitution and throw it back out.

4 posted on 11/30/2012 2:42:50 AM PST by superloser
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To: Rapscallion
->Do something to get Republicans out of the line of fire.

I would not cover for them. They are partly to blame.. They either have to stop doing secret deals or show the public what deals they've already made w/the dems. No one knows for sure, what they have done behind closed doors. Newt gave the advice but we don't know what they have done. (What's with Charles-one day, it's this way, now this)

5 posted on 11/30/2012 2:50:10 AM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. Our nation's foundation is under attack.)
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To: GVnana

Contacted the offices of my Reps and Sens and told them to walk away from any plan with tax increases, to let the 1.2 trillion in cuts kick in.


6 posted on 11/30/2012 2:50:32 AM PST by gotribe
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To: GVnana
—>And they expect the Republicans are going to do this again?

all of them are acting so immature. It is not about them, Charles nor saving their careers. Stop being their cheerleader because you act like it's all the dems. The repubs are spending, too!!! and could have made deals behind doors. I agree with Newt and Rush.

7 posted on 11/30/2012 3:00:35 AM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. Our nation's foundation is under attack.)
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To: GVnana
They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything.

I believe it was Sun Tzu who said, "Know your enemy". The Democrats have got the Republicans figured out pretty well.

8 posted on 11/30/2012 3:21:46 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I think the plan is to go over the fiscal cliff, blame the Republicans for a few months, then watch the Republicans cave in to tons of middle class taxes marketed as “taxes on the rich”.


9 posted on 11/30/2012 3:34:09 AM PST by cgbg (HLM--"Democracy is the theory that people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.")
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To: GVnana

I do believe the house, independent of any other branch of government, has the ability to SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT.

As I see it, that is the only course that remains. The cost would be great in the sense of who might take over in the next election, but that seems to be the goal of everyone on the left anyway. Shock and Awe is the only course remaining where someone is actually in control of spending before the real fiscal cliff is reached, total collapse.

That would mean some serious financial negotiation on a daily basis, on what goes out of the treasury, and they could then perhaps make the case that we are broke!

The so called budget that does not exist would also become apparent and whose fault that was.

Everyone in the country would be impacted, including the President and that is hugely important, and if they were doing it right, there would be an immediate fifty percent CUT in every expenditure.

That particular cut would equal a balanced budget with money left over. The house would have to make sure the public was aware of their past bungling of their duties, and that they regretted having to take control of spending, but in the name of the flag of the United States of America, the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, it had to be done.

Get on with it, the sooner the better.

I am not wise enough or clairvoyant enough to know the financial risk relative to a depression, but think short term depression would be far better than long term collapse.

I do not like the alternative of giving in, giving up, or giving the President everything he wants at the expense of the American people and those in our past who have bought this Republic with their life’s blood.


10 posted on 11/30/2012 3:57:51 AM PST by wita
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To: GVnana

11 posted on 11/30/2012 4:01:25 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: GVnana

The Republicans have absolutely nothing to gain by playing along with the Democrats. If anything were to go wrong, they will be blamed. The MSM will always spin everything to be the fault of the Republicans. A majority of Americans will believe anything they are fed by the MSM.

I’ve said it before, and will say it again, bankrupting the US will be the best thing that will ever happen to this country. It will be the only way to force the Liberals to stop spending money they don’t have. The Liberals cannot be trusted. The will demand increased taxes not, for promised spending cuts in 10 years (which will never come). In the meantime, the spending will increase at twice the rate of the forecasted increase in tax revenue.

If an economic collapse were to come, the parasite class will be hardest hit. Those with ambition will struggle, but will survive.

It is better to have a collapse and get it over with and begin to rebuilt. By prolonging and delaying the inevitable, the outcome will only be more unnecessary suffering.


12 posted on 11/30/2012 4:05:05 AM PST by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: GVnana

Here’s an idea: refuse to raise the debt ceiling and let Obama deal with the consquences for the next two years. In effect, take away the keys to the car.


13 posted on 11/30/2012 4:30:08 AM PST by rbg81
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Contacted the offices of my Reps and Sens and told them to walk away from any plan with tax increases, to let the 1.2 trillion in cuts kick in.

1. Put a radical cut bill with no tax increases and massive cuts through the House.

2. When the Senate compromise comes back to the House loaded up with all taxes and NO CUTS, every Republican vote "present" and put it all on the Democrats and and president.

14 posted on 11/30/2012 4:32:51 AM PST by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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To: Cowboy Bob

I think you are 100% right. Its time we tried going nuclear.


15 posted on 11/30/2012 4:34:44 AM PST by rbg81
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100% not fund everything that has to do with Obamacare. Let’s see if this Obamacare repeal was all political posturing or they have a spine and really mean what they say.


16 posted on 11/30/2012 4:35:31 AM PST by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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To: GVnana

Krauthammer must have liste4ned to RUSH yesterday.


17 posted on 11/30/2012 4:46:00 AM PST by kenmcg (scapegoat)
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To: GVnana; Kaslin; SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; ...

Pass the partial extension of the tax cuts through the House to disarm Obama and Dems of that club, then get on TV and make sure voters know you are not for raising taxes on the middle class.

Then you can walk away from Obama’s?Geitners list of demands.

Alternatively play the same strategy as a year ago (on FICA) and the outcome will be the same.

And create a video commercial of all the Dems who have been lining up calling to go over the cliff to use as a club to beat Dems with next January when the heat really goes up.

Summary : Fight like Dems, meaning fight like winners for a change,.


18 posted on 11/30/2012 5:00:27 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: kenmcg

It’s interesting that Obama chided the Republicans early on that they better not listen to Rush. - He’s sort of like B’rer Rabbit and the Briar Patch; with Obama being B’rer Rabbit and the Briar Patch being Rush. - Rush makes more common sense than most I hear.


19 posted on 11/30/2012 5:00:55 AM PST by Twinkie (ABORTION is GENOCIDE of Blacks & Hispanics!)
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To: GVnana

If Obama is going on VACATION, then he’s ABDICATING his responsibility.

Boehner simply announces:

“We’re NOT going to sit here and negotiate with ourselves!”

The Congress has repeatedly submitted budgets, while the President has done NOTHING to present a budget that has ANY support in a Democrat lead Senate!”


20 posted on 11/30/2012 5:04:14 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: GVnana

Win win for the RAT party. Go over fiscal cliff, have the media blame Repubs for the next 4 years as causing a trumped up catastrophe. Repubs cave, Obama gets whatever he wants. Third alternative: Give the commie in chief what he wants with the stipulation that Repubs announce they are acting in protest as its the only way for people to see the horror of obamanomics.


21 posted on 11/30/2012 5:13:14 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I think our enemies are both parties.


22 posted on 11/30/2012 5:15:20 AM PST by bmwcyle (Women reelected Obama)
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To: GVnana

The Speaker needs to tell the President..... According to the people, I won.


23 posted on 11/30/2012 5:22:40 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: GVnana
Let's go of the cliff! We will at least get the cuts to kick in. It will also get rid of the “Bush tax cuts” so they don't have that to demonize any more. Make Obama OWN it! The Republicans will get bad press no matter what. I will enjoy watching all the clueless people that voted for this idiot, on Jan 15th see $100 to $200 missing out of their paycheck. That alone will be well worth the pain it will cause my family. We need something to enlighten the clueless so they vote at least a tiny bit smarter in the future.
24 posted on 11/30/2012 5:42:20 AM PST by Plumres
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To: GVnana

No Democrat wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

As then Spkr. Rep. Nancy Pelosi once said: “We have to pass Obama’care’ to see what is in it.”

And now Benghazi-Coward Obama’s Democrats are saying: ‘We have to go over Obama’s Fiscal Cliff to see how far we fall financially.’


25 posted on 11/30/2012 5:55:34 AM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Plumres
Let's go of the cliff! We will at least get the cuts to kick in. It will also get rid of the “Bush tax cuts” so they don't have that to demonize any more. Make Obama OWN it! The Republicans will get bad press no matter what. I will enjoy watching all the clueless people that voted for this idiot, on Jan 15th see $100 to $200 missing out of their paycheck. That alone will be well worth the pain it will cause my family. We need something to enlighten the clueless so they vote at least a tiny bit smarter in the future.

This is exactly what needs to happen. It will also go a long way of turning back the insane "immigration reform" (aka surrender) sentiment in both parties.

26 posted on 11/30/2012 5:55:43 AM PST by TADSLOS (No need to watch the movie "Idiocracy". We're living it.)
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To: GVnana
We had that movie a year-and-a-half ago where Paul Ryan presented a budget, a serious real budget with real cuts. Obama was supposed to gave speech where he would respond with a counter offer. And what did he do? He gave a speech where he had Ryan sitting in the front row. He called the Ryan proposal un-American, insulted him, offered nothing, and ran on Mediscare in the next 18 months.

I'm not sure when Republicans are going to learn that public opposition to an idea strengthens the idea. Democrats are smarter - they oppose ideas they consider a threat by personally attacking the politician who puts them forward. Since they don't even acknowledge the existence of the dangerous Republican plan, the plan gets zero media attention and consequently no support, even from Republicans.

Thus...

"That jug-eared fool smoked pot in college, bows to foreign dictators, and let four American diplomats die in Libya because he was afraid of getting a bad headline - you're going to listen his fiscal cliff plan? Don't make me laugh!"

...would be far more effective than what the Republicans are trying to do now.

27 posted on 11/30/2012 6:03:55 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Rapscallion

That’s exactly right. Walk away but there MUST be a steady drum beat from the speaker and the rest of GOP leadership laying blame where it belongs—at the president’s feet. Over and over and over.


28 posted on 11/30/2012 7:01:12 AM PST by Oratam
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To: sickoflibs; GVnana; Kaslin; SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy

” Summary : Fight like Dems, meaning fight like winners for a change,.”

Wake me when this happens.


29 posted on 11/30/2012 7:39:54 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: cgbg

And the Dumbos will be swept out of office in 2014. DC can’t do anything right. There’s no reason to keep conservatives there anymore. It’s like Afghanistan, they should all come home.


30 posted on 11/30/2012 7:51:14 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: GVnana

We should just walk away.

No one is going to remember this in 2 years.


31 posted on 11/30/2012 9:12:39 AM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
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To: GVnana

Krauthammer:
“It’s not just a bad deal, this is really an insulting deal. ... And they expect the Republicans are going to do this again?

Yup, that’s what the ‘rats expect.
Yup, that’s what the Republicans are going to do...

Aside: I believe the Pubbies are afraid — DEATHLY afraid — of the public beating they took back around 1996 (or so) when Gingrich tried to stand up to Clinton’s refusal to accept their budget. The House Republicans are not looking ahead to 2016 but instead to 2014 when they’ll have to face the voters again. And the ‘rats and the sycophant media will “keep the memory pot a-boilin’” ‘til then!

This is why even a bad agreement is worth more to them than being painted in the press as forcin’ the car over the cliff.

And a “bad agreement” they’ll accede to!


32 posted on 11/30/2012 9:33:20 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; GVnana; Kaslin; SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; ...
Pass the partial extension of the tax cuts through the House to disarm Obama and Dems of that club, then get on TV and make sure voters know you are not for raising taxes on the middle class.

I think this merely gives Obama what he wants.  He then gets to say he is the defender of the middle class, and he has taken it to the rich in their defense.  We can say that we defended the middle class, but it will be a hollow argument no matter what we profess.  You either oppose raising taxes or you don't.  And you don't sign on to raising them if you want to have credibility on the subject ever again.

The small businessman is going to be harmed by this.  Is he going to think we came to the rescue of the middle class?  He's going to be spitting nails in our direction, and rightfully so.

Either we believe in undoing Socialism or we don't.  It's that simple.

Why do we oppose raising taxes on the rich?  And by classification, who are we really talking about when we reference anyone making over $250,000 dollars per year?  Only the rich?

I believe we have to explain our position much better than we have.  And if it requires infomericals to get the point across, then so be it.  Break out the charts.  Explain it to folks in terms they can understand.

The one thing I have come to believe about what is considered 'the Right' in the United States, is it's timidity about explaining what it's true ideology is.  We don't explain our position.  We lose the argument.  We then extrapolate what that means in a vacuum.


We understand the problems with labeling everyone pulling in over $250,000 dollars per year as rich.  What we fail to understand is that not everyone understands.  We simply assume that because we do, everyone does or should.  That's not enough.


Then you can walk away from Obama’s?Geitners list of demands.  Alternatively play the same strategy as a year ago (on FICA) and the outcome will be the same.

No matter what we cave on, the part we don't cave on will still be fodder for the Left to blame us.  Looking back over the sixty years, what has caving on issue after issue after issue gained us?  Here we are living in a Socialist paradise, and we're still being demagogued on the issue of us being unreasonable.  Then the operative plan is to give one more time, so we'll look reasoned.  I'm sorry, at some point in time we need to take a stand, explain why, and start moving the yard marker back toward the other end zone.

Man, if we can't take a stand on creeping Socialism now, then we should fold up our camp and register as Democrats and be done with it.


We really do have to start a massive education effort against the Left.

1. What is Socialism?
2. What has happened other places it has been tried?
3. What is Capitalism?
4. What has happened places it has been tried?
5. Why has China prospered in recent times vs it's period from 1955 to 1992?

6. Has the Republican party bent over backwards to try to be reasoned with the Left?  (Is the U. S. a Socialist state today or not?)
7. Has the Left bent over backwards to try to be reasoned with the right? (Do we still support our Constitution? Who suggests we should and who doesn't?  How does this relate to the amendments?)


...and much much more.


This isn't being taught in schools.  Someone has to do it.  It's about time we did, or at least tried.

And create a video commercial of all the Dems who have been lining up calling to go over the cliff to use as a club to beat Dems with next January when the heat really goes up.

We can't do that after telling the other side hell no to ANY tax increases?

Summary : Fight like Dems, meaning fight like winners for a change,.


Agreeing to raise taxes on 'the rich', is exactly that, fighting like Dems.  No, scratch that, it's fighting for them.  I want no part of that.  I can't for the life of me see how that is anything other than fighting like losers.

Are we where we are today, because we stood firm and explained our reasoning?  I would submit we are where we are today because we didn't stand firm, and failed all too often to explain sound principles to the people we seek to lead.

Stand firm.  Explain yourself in detail.  Win!

33 posted on 11/30/2012 10:37:39 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Thus...

"That jug-eared fool smoked pot in college, bows to foreign dictators, and let four American diplomats die in Libya because he was afraid of getting a bad headline - you're going to listen his fiscal cliff plan? Don't make me laugh!"

...would be far more effective than what the Republicans are trying to do now.

.
Great strategy! Now if only the ball-less Repukes would do it and stick with it. Which they won't unfortunately! Because that's not "nice" or "respectful" to 0dumb0shit or the demoRATs. And after all, Mitt Romney declared that 0dumb0 was a "nice" guy. And Boehner would cry & wet his panties at the same time, if he were ever to proclaim this in public, in front of the news cameras.

34 posted on 11/30/2012 10:54:37 AM PST by rcrngroup
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To: DoughtyOne; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; GVnana; Kaslin; SeekAndFind; ...

” I believe we have to explain our position much better than we have”

We haven’t explained it at all. Every time Obama says Republicans are for protecting the rich, Boehner, McConnell, and all of their little followers go into hiding for 6 weeks.
Not once did any of them gather the media to explain why small businessmen need that money to keep and hire employees.
They never explain anything. I’m surprised we still have the House.


35 posted on 11/30/2012 11:05:12 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: stephenjohnbanker
I’m surprised we still have the House.

It's quite surprising to me the difference in the Obama vote from the local votes.

We took over more state houses with super majorities. We took over more with just simple majorities. We gained more governors.

Sounds to me like people at the local level have a voice.

I will say this again though, Romney came very close to pulling it off. Three or four states, a few hundred thousand votes in the right areas, we've got a Romney presidency.

The Republicans are reading far too much into this election's losses, and far too little into this election's wins for our side.

36 posted on 11/30/2012 11:26:17 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; GOPsterinMA
RE :”They never explain anything. I’m surprised we still have the House.”

The one that ps me off to no end is entitlements.
Rs are so scared to admit they both are broke right NOW and generating debt NOW that they let Dems get away with saying they are fully funded, and wonder why no one believes them about needing reform.

In fact a Dem on CSPAN called in this morning and he said that SS should not be touched because ‘ SS takes in more money than it spends

The mod asked “How about the payroll tax cut ? Should that be extended?” (didnt mention FICA or SS and how they relate to above.

He replies :”Sure

If Republicans are not going to bother to explain why they want to do what they propose, then screw them . Hell, I did more than them by creating that video on SS and posting it to youtube

Not every rich guy >$250K is a small business owner yet if you listen to the Rs everys single one of them is a small business owner who hires employees because thats all they ever say in response to tax increase talk.
Most people know this is non-sense. Come up with something that sounds real.

37 posted on 11/30/2012 11:36:33 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: sickoflibs

” The one that ps me off to no end is entitlements.
Rs are so scared to admit they both are broke right NOW and generating debt NOW that they let Dems get away with saying they are fully funded, and wonder why no one believes them about needing reform.”

Correct.

” Not every rich guy >$250K is a small business owner yet if you listen to the Rs everys single one of them is a small business owner who hires employees because thats all they ever say in response to tax increase talk.
Most people know this is non-sense.”

The proportion is higher than you might know. In California it is hundreds of thousands. Forgetting this, there are a dozen ways tax increases hurt the economy, and you are correct that none of it is ever explained by Republicans. They are stuck on COWARD, and stuck on STUPID.


38 posted on 11/30/2012 11:46:38 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: Rapscallion

Buy time on TV, amen brother, Amen.


39 posted on 11/30/2012 11:55:04 AM PST by CPT Clay (Follow me on Twitter @Clay N TX)
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To: DoughtyOne
It's quite surprising to me the difference in the Obama vote from the local votes.

Interesting, isn't it? I believe there was massive fraud in this election.

40 posted on 11/30/2012 12:10:01 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; GOPsterinMA
They never explain anything. I’m surprised we still have the House.

The one that ps me off to no end is entitlements.  Rs are so scared to admit they both are broke right NOW and generating debt NOW that they let Dems get away with saying they are fully funded, and wonder why no one believes them about needing reform.  In fact a Dem on CSPAN called in this morning and he said that SS should not be touched because ‘ SS takes in more money than it spends”

I do believe we need entitlement change.  (I believe you were addressing Medicare and Social Security here.  If that assumption is incorrect, please mention it.)  The type of change I would like to see does not involve folks who spent 40-50 years working under the old system, only to be told they get less and less now that they can't work any longer.  Instead it involves converting the entitlement programs into private investment driven enterprises, which over a rather short period of time returns us to solvency as the older generation dies off.  Under the new program, future retirees would see their whole lives changed through creative initiatives.

The mod asked “How about the payroll tax cut ? Should that be extended?” (didnt mention FICA or SS and how they relate to above.  He replies :”Sure”  And this guy was waiting to be plucked this election, and we probably didn't get him.  What a shame.

If Republicans are not going to bother to explain why they want to do what they propose, then screw them.  Agreed.  Hell, I did more than them by creating that video on SS and posting it to youtube

Not every rich guy >$250K is a small business owner yet if you listen to the Rs everys single one of them is a small business owner who hires employees because thats all they ever say in response to tax increase talk.  Most people know this is non-sense. Come up with something that sounds real.


We'll you're right here, but the issue of the percentage that is/isn't a small business owner, isn't the way it should be exploited.

It along with a number of other economic factors this idiot is clueless about, should be exploited to the end of outing this president for the economic 'nine year old' he is.

"We read with not a little amusement the president's proposals related to 'rich people' and how those makeing over $250,000 dollars per year are rich, and need to be taxed more.  Not everyone making over $250,000 is a small businessman, but the president failed to even address the fact that there are many small businessmen whose businesses exceed the $250,000 dollar limit by varying margins who none the less still file their taxes under a person income tax return.  This raises the glaring ignorance of the president yet again, as it relates to yet another aspect of economics."

"Does our president merely wish to cause these small businessmen to have to lay off employees, or does he want to put them out of business altogether?   Mr. President, the American public deserve better!"

"While we're pitting rich against poor, I'd like to ask folks who own a home worth $250,000 dollars, do they consider themselves to be RICH, and deserving of paying more taxes?"

"If you're in the midst of paying off your $250,000 dollar home, do you think you'll be a rich person when you have paid it off, deserving of paying more takes?"

"Mr. President, this class warfare game you're playing is beneath the dignity of this nation.  You could really use some night-school classes on Economics 101."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, that's all for now.  I'm sure we'll be back here tomorrow addressing another aspect of the clueless one's failing grasp of economic reality."


41 posted on 11/30/2012 12:28:13 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: riri

Yep, I’m leaning in that direction myself. There were too many valid stories of shenanigans this election cycle, to be totally closed to the idea. We must address this.


42 posted on 11/30/2012 12:33:35 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: GVnana
Krauthammer started to rehabilitate his opinion with me when he said this about domestic drones:

"I don't want regulations, I don't want restrictions, I want a ban on this. Drones are instruments of war. The Founders had a great aversion to any instruments of war, the use of the military inside even the United States. It didn't like standing armies, it has all kinds of statutes of using the army in the country."

"A drone is a high-tech version of an old army and a musket. It ought to be used in Somalia to hunt bad guys but not in America. I don't want to see it hovering over anybody's home. Yes, you can say we have satellites, we've got Google Street View and London has a camera on every street corner but that's not an excuse to cave in on everything else and accept a society where you're always under -- being watched by the government. This is not what we want,"

"I would say that you ban it under all circumstances and I would predict, I'm not encouraging, but I am predicting that the first guy who uses a Second Amendment weapon to bring a drone down that's been hovering over his house is going to be a folk hero in this country,"

[snip]

"The Founders we're deeply opposed to the militarization of civil society. There is all kinds of aversions to it and this is importing it because, as you say, it's cheap, it's easy, it's silent. It's something that you can easily deploy. It's going to be, I think the bane of our existence. Stop it here, stop it now"

43 posted on 11/30/2012 6:11:52 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; GOPsterinMA
RE :” Not every rich guy >$250K is a small business owner yet if you listen to the Rs everys single one of them is a small business owner who hires employees because thats all they ever say in response to tax increase talk.
Most people know this is non-sense.”
....
The proportion is higher than you might know.

By the way, the Clinton era taxes was on income OVER $250K.
So a small business owner making say $300K sees a tax increase on the last $50K. They need to explain why this is bad.

I will not support a party who is not honest, especially when it frequently backfires. They need arguments that don't fall apart so fast. Buffet now says he wants it at $500K. So pass the extension up to 500K

One of the worst arguments for tax cuts is that it is a stimulus that will get taxpayers to spend more money. This a guaranteed losing argument.

44 posted on 11/30/2012 11:01:48 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems want to win. The GOP wants to whine. Why dont they fight line Dems do? To win??)
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