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To: Perseverando

The Articles of Confederation and the Constitution explicitly made the Union perpetual until and unless the States ratify the secession of a State in exactly the same means by which the State secured accession to the perpetual Union. claims that the Constitution does not forbid unilateral secession are totally false and deceptive.


2 posted on 11/28/2012 9:54:11 AM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX
the Constitution explicitly made the Union perpetual until and unless the States ratify the secession of a State in exactly the same means by which the State secured accession to the perpetual Union.

You are saying that this is explicit in the Constitution - please refer me to the provision that you are talking about. Thanks!

18 posted on 11/28/2012 10:22:08 AM PST by Stingray51
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To: WhiskeyX
Perhaps, but, 11 states representing 2/3 of the geographical union was hardly unilateral, was it?
19 posted on 11/28/2012 10:24:08 AM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: WhiskeyX

The "Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union between the States" were in fact a perpetual compact among thirteen states, but that was replaced by the "Constitution of the United States" and never applied to the other 37 (43?) states.

At no point in the text of the Constitution of the United States is the word "perpetual" or any synonym used to describe the union. In the absence of such a mandate, I would argue that the 10th Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," clearly grants states the legal authority to secede. The practical power - the ability to resist conquest by the United States is a different question, one on which the Confederacy fell short, but states have a constitutional grant of the legal power to secede. Secession is a question of strength and will, not of law - the "supreme Law of the Land" permits that option, as does the long tradition of deciding such questions by force of arms, or by mutual consent. The socialists in our White House and in the Senate have no legal obligation to resist a peaceful secession, and I pray that they will not feel bound (whether for noble reasons or otherwise) to do so if the situation arises.

54 posted on 11/28/2012 11:11:26 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: WhiskeyX

If Virginia did not legally secede, the West Virginia does not legally exist.
(US Constitution Article 4, section 3.1: ...no new state may be formed within the jurisdiction of any other state...without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned and of the Congress.)

However, both NY and VA conditionally ratified The Constitution, under the direction of Patrick Henry. The conditional ratification explicitly retained the right to secede for NY and VA at their discretion, when they deemed that the fedgov was operating outside of their best interests.

G-S-M


67 posted on 11/28/2012 11:29:12 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: WhiskeyX

Please reference said article in the Constitution.


77 posted on 11/28/2012 11:42:40 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: WhiskeyX
The Articles of Confederation and the Constitution explicitly made the Union perpetual until and unless the States ratify the secession of a State in exactly the same means by which the State secured accession to the perpetual Union. claims that the Constitution does not forbid unilateral secession are totally false and deceptive.

Untrue. The States seceded from the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, and the first legal treatise written after Ratification acknowledged both the secession from the Articles AND the continued right to do so under the Constitution.

And since the seceding states, by establishing a new constitution and form of federal government among themselves, without the consent of the rest, have shown that they consider the right to do so whenever the occasion may, in their opinion require it, as unquestionable, we may infer that that right has not been diminished by any new compact which they may since have entered into, since none could be more solemn or explicit than the first, nor more binding upon the contracting parties. Their obligation, therefore, to preserve the present constitution, is not greater than their former obligations were, to adhere to the articles of confederation; each state possessing the same right of withdrawing itself from the confederacy without the consent of the rest, as any number of them do, or ever did, possess.

Of the Several Forms of Government, St. George Tucker, View of the Constitution of the United States, Section XIII

103 posted on 11/28/2012 12:24:54 PM PST by MamaTexan (It is impossible to follow the Original Intent of the Constitution and NOT acknowledge secession)
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To: WhiskeyX

“The Articles of Confederation and the Constitution explicitly made the Union perpetual until and unless the States ratify the secession of a State in exactly the same means by which the State secured accession to the perpetual Union.”

Prove it. Quote the section of the Constitution that explicitly states this.


126 posted on 11/28/2012 1:24:07 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: WhiskeyX

“The Articles of Confederation and the Constitution explicitly made the Union perpetual until and unless the States ratify the secession of a State in exactly the same means by which the State secured accession to the perpetual Union”

Sure, pal. That’s written in there. Of course, you couldn’t find it or your ass with both hands.


225 posted on 11/29/2012 8:50:27 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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