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Promises on Gun Control
NY TIMES ^ | November 26, 2012

Posted on 11/26/2012 9:48:03 AM PST by SoFloFreeper

President Obama's fleeting mention of the need for stronger gun controls at a presidential debate last month was hardly the kind of forceful political statement needed to address the scourge of gun violence in this country. Even his tepid remark was considered by the nation's gun owners as a threat to take away their firearms. In what amounts to a buyers' panic, they are again ramping up gun and ammunition sales as they did four years ago, convinced that Mr. Obama intends a gun-control crackdown.

Yet in his first term, Mr. Obama did nothing to cross the gun lobby, and he actually signed legislation allowing loaded firearms to be carried in national parks. Let's hope Mr. Obama shows more courage on guns in his second term. He said during the debate that he would see "if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced" and that we need to look at "other sources of the violence," like "cheap handguns." Now it's time to follow through on those promises.

(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; banglist; bloodoftyrants; democrats; dictator; guncontrol; guns; obama; shallnotbeinfringed; tyranny; youwillnotdisarmus
Look for "federal fees" on ammo to increase 500%.
1 posted on 11/26/2012 9:48:20 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

Every law should be met with the question: how will this law stop the criminal misuse of guns that current laws do not?


2 posted on 11/26/2012 9:51:42 AM PST by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affirmative Action President.)
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To: Mikey_1962

It won’t of course.

Now if they were going to spend the taxes on offering free lessons to the public by conservative gun groups, first come first serve, I’d say it might be worth it.


3 posted on 11/26/2012 9:56:54 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: SoFloFreeper
Gun control....hmmm...since I retired in January, I've spent an average of 2-3 days/week at the gun range. Mainly getting acquainted with all the pistols and revolvers I've collected over the years and just doing some basic 'gun control'....my eyesight sucks and I'm shaky for an old man.

It's hard to align my progressive lenses and the targets at 25-30 feet so I've just been practicing putting as many down range hits in the main mass, and then at the head when the paper target gets so torn you can't tell where you hit. I think I could do this without my glasses now. At a pace that approaches better a shot/second, sometimes a lot better than that when I can get away with rapid fire at the range.

That's what I call gun control.

4 posted on 11/26/2012 9:57:56 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: SoFloFreeper
“...In what amounts to a buyers’ panic, they are again ramping up gun and ammunition sales as they did four years ago, convinced that Mr. Obama intends a gun-control crackdown...”

I got a phone call yesterday from the NRA, with a Wayne L. recording that was just extreme scare tactics. I think that a lot of the panic buying is being fueled by the NRA.

If ammo taxes or fees are put in place, my expectation is that the House will tie them to wildlife, hunter safety training, gun safety training in schools, and a host of things. Since I reload most of my ammo and since it is not that hard to learn, I really don't see the fed’s getting too carried away unless they want to turn reloading into the “new bootlegging.”

5 posted on 11/26/2012 10:00:58 AM PST by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Mikey_1962

“Every law should be met with the question: how will this law stop the criminal misuse of guns”

That is not the goal of gun control, so it will be easy for them to lie about it.


6 posted on 11/26/2012 10:02:09 AM PST by DBrow
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To: Robert357

To SOFREEPER.........

“If ammo taxes or fees are put in place, my expectation is that the House will tie them to wildlife, hunter safety training, gun safety training in schools, and a host of things. Since I reload most of my ammo and since it is not that hard to learn, I really don’t see the fed’s getting too carried away unless they want to turn reloading into the “new bootlegging.” ...

With this “TAX and SPEND” president do you think for one minute he won’t apply a tax on ammunition or gun sales?

He will get his way by whatever means he can and an “Executive Order” WILL make it happen. His idea is, “We Don’t Need No Stinken Constitution. I won”


7 posted on 11/26/2012 10:09:40 AM PST by Progov
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To: SoFloFreeper

If he intends to sieze absolute power, he has only a few years left to do so. Look for an all-out assault, soon.


8 posted on 11/26/2012 10:10:10 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

this and other recent stories site garbage data about the increase of “gun violence” among 10-19 yr. olds, as a reason for more gun control.

Which state’s laws currently allow handgun purchases by 10-19 yr, olds?


9 posted on 11/26/2012 10:19:54 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Looks like the black market for ammo is going to be tremendous.


10 posted on 11/26/2012 10:25:15 AM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Gaffer
It's hard to align my progressive lenses and the targets at 25-30 feet so I've just been practicing putting as many down range hits in the main mass, and then at the head when the paper target gets so torn you can't tell where you hit. I think I could do this without my glasses now. At a pace that approaches better a shot/second, sometimes a lot better than that when I can get away with rapid fire at the range.

See, this is why the Constitution does not say "gun".

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

Any law limiting the keeping or bearing of any arms infringes upon those rights.

There are a lot of other weapons that might be much more effective for citizens with below average sight and steadiness.

IMHO, we should be moving towards getting rid of all legacy "gun laws", since we have always had laws against the actual crimes related to assault and murder.

I could care less if my neighbor has their own personal M1A1 Abrams tank, in fact, it would be nice to know there's one handy by just in case it's needed.

I know my dad and my uncle would be in their glory playing with one.
11 posted on 11/26/2012 10:29:13 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: Robert357

“I got a phone call yesterday from the NRA, with a Wayne L. recording that was just extreme scare tactics. I think that a lot of the panic buying is being fueled by the NRA.”

No, it is not. It is being fueled by fear of violence by gangs and the mexican cartels. Or a Chicago style situation in which the only people with guns are gangbangers. A weekend last year featured 39 shootings and 13 deaths in that great city. People don’t want this in their own backyard.

House bill 1022, btw, did require reloaders to turn in their rounds and replace them with serial numbered rounds. So yes it could become a crime to reload.

“Fast and Furious” was apparently an attempt to make the case for tighter gun control with a story line involvong cross border sales that were uncontrolled. Fortunately all of the dealers involved had lawyers to back them up from the get go. Why anyone in that faraway colonial power, Washington DC, would think higher levels of violence just beyond the border would do anything other than spur gun sales is beyond me.

That is the mindset of Congress and it is scaring people.


12 posted on 11/26/2012 10:34:06 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: Robert357

The most powerful incentive for people to buy guns is that the general populace sees the country falling into chaos and they have no intention of becoming just one more statistic. That is what is driving the sales.


13 posted on 11/26/2012 10:38:00 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: SoFloFreeper
President Obama's fleeting mention of the need for stronger gun controls at a presidential debate last month was hardly the kind of forceful political statement needed to address the scourge of gun violence in this country.

Gun control is not the same thing as gun violence. Today, in the US, we have over 20,000 active gun control laws on the books and there isn't a single one of them that will prevent the next gun-related crime.

Humans tend to be violent, at times and, when they have one of those times, they will grab anything they can use as a weapon. If we outlaw private gun ownership, it will be knives, baseball bats, bows and arrows, big chunks of wood, large rocks or pieces of concrete . . . . When someone is angry enough to attempt to kill another, ANY item can become a lethal weapon. If they ban guns, where will the bans ultimately stop??

Laws are created to control law abiding citizens. Criminals are also called "outlaws" because they they don't comply with the law. So, this is a continued attack on our freedoms by leftists who 1) hate the Constiution, 2) hate freedom for anyone but themselves and 3) want more control over the rest of us. Right now, the only thing that separates us from the Egyptians (and Morsi) is that we have a lot of guns and ammo and will (if necessary) use them to fend off any attempt to destroy our Second Amendment right.

Our Founders are currently apoplectic over the corrupt government that our career elected representatives have perverted the system they so carefully and thoughtfully created.

14 posted on 11/26/2012 10:41:11 AM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

There aren’t really any “cheap handguns” out there anymore. Even the junk costs money.


15 posted on 11/26/2012 10:44:14 AM PST by ozzymandus
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To: DustyMoment

Gun control is kinda like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.


16 posted on 11/26/2012 10:44:49 AM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: Gaffer

A thought for you to consider. I have taught a number of people to shoot and have worked on some adaptive handling for those who do not have steady hands.

One technique you may consider is to not to use your index finger as the trigger finger. Instead, use your middle / long finger. This may require a reduction in the “power” of the fire arm. The idea is that you use your index finger to point and push. This will often steady a shaking hand and will develop instinctive shooting. For some people it makes them faster and more accurate.

Your mileage may very.

Rules for a gun fight in order:
1) gun beats no gun - only carry what you WILL ACTUALLY carry. A gun left at home because it is too big does you no good.
2) hit beats no hit - .22 that hits beats a .44 mag that misses and NEVER fire a warning shot
3) accuracy beats big hole - .22 to the eye beats .45 to the arm.
4) 2 holes beat 1 hole - If it was necessary to shoot once, then shoot a second time


17 posted on 11/26/2012 10:44:59 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: SoFloFreeper

Our daily offer to anyone so inclined remains outstanding:
Come and get them.


18 posted on 11/26/2012 10:48:56 AM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

If Obama believes so much in gun control, he can start by setting the example by giving up his SS protective detail.


19 posted on 11/26/2012 10:50:42 AM PST by patriotsblood
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To: Gaffer

Just a note that if your eyes are a little tired it’s even more important to make sure your gun “points where you look”. Depending on what your favorite gun is you might need to doctor the grips. A lot of European style guns just naturally go “muzzle down” when you snap the gun up to fire. It’s the reason that the US military eventually added the swelled mainspring housing to the Colt 1911-—too many guys let the muzzle drop on a quick shot and the swell pushes up against the heel of the hand. Remember that if you actually need the gun it’s never going to be laying on a table in front of you at the range. It will be someplace else requiring you draw it all the while keeping your eyes on the target. Banging away at paper is good but is not all the practice you might need. When selling guns for personal defense I make people try different styles until they swear to God to me that the gun is pointing where they are looking. And that gun is almost never the one they first thot they wanted.


20 posted on 11/26/2012 11:01:58 AM PST by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: Robert357

They called me at lunch today.


21 posted on 11/26/2012 11:10:56 AM PST by USAF80
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To: SoFloFreeper
From the linked article: "... the 1994 enactment of a 10-year ban on civilian use of assault rifles, ..."

What would the anti-gunners do if deprived of the ability to lie?

The so-called "assault weapons" law did not address "assault rifles" in any manner whatsoever. "Assault rifle" is a military term which describes an automatic (or select-fire, which includes full automatic or burst capability) weapon using an intermediate size cartridge.

"Assault weapon" is a political term used to describe military-looking semi-automatic rifles and has been used purposely to confuse the issue and allow the government to outlaw rifles because they have a bayonet lug (not even a bayonet), a pistol-grip, a folding-stock, or some other feature which is absolutely irrelevant to whether the firearm is more or less deadly.

22 posted on 11/26/2012 11:20:20 AM PST by William Tell
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To: taxcontrol

“2 holes beat one hole - If it was necessary to shoot once, then shoot a second time”

I just love that.

I usually carry a Ruger LCP .380. Rule of thumb for the .380 is: If they’re still moving keep shooting.


23 posted on 11/26/2012 12:07:57 PM PST by technically right
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To: SoFloFreeper
Yet in his first term, Mr. Obama did nothing to cross the gun lobby,

Ahem … does Guns for Gangsters ring a bell?

Not to mention the UN gun grab treaty…. But who counting, right?

24 posted on 11/26/2012 12:40:30 PM PST by Voice of Reason88 ( Freedom is never lost all at once - Edmund Burke)
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To: ozzymandus

Depends on how ‘cheap’ is defined. If ‘cheap’ is anything below $800, that would be very bad.


25 posted on 11/26/2012 1:28:08 PM PST by expat2
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To: cherokee1

Useful info. A laser sight is very helpful, as long as it is easy to turn on.


26 posted on 11/26/2012 1:31:38 PM PST by expat2
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To: DBrow

“Every law should be met with the question: how will this law stop the criminal misuse of guns”

That is not the goal of gun control, so it will be easy for them to lie about it.

wrong!

Every law should be met with the question what are the negative unintended consequences this will have on law abiding individuals?


27 posted on 11/26/2012 2:09:27 PM PST by GraceG
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To: SoFloFreeper

The American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.

Seems fitting that it ends with the colonists demanding to be disarmed.


28 posted on 11/26/2012 4:25:37 PM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
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To: Voice of Reason88
Yet in his first term, Mr. Obama did nothing to cross the gun lobby, Ahem … does Guns for Gangsters ring a bell? Not to mention the UN gun grab treaty…. But who counting, right?

HE had plans that is for sure, but Fast and Furious backfired on him when a border agent was killed by the very weapons OBAMA delivered to the drug lords. Next he used an illegal executive privilege claim to protect his people - Eric Holder.
29 posted on 11/26/2012 4:37:50 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: SoFloFreeper

FUNYT.


30 posted on 11/26/2012 5:31:53 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: GraceG; DBrow
“Every law should be met with the question: how will this law stop the criminal misuse of guns”

That is not the goal of gun control, so it will be easy for them to lie about it.

wrong!

Every law should be met with the question what are the negative unintended consequences this will have on law abiding individuals?

Dear Grace,

Your last sentence is absolutely correct. However, that does not make DBrow's statement wrong. Your stance and his statement are not mutually exclusive.

Stopping the criminal misuse of guns may be the goal of the "useful idiots," but it is not the goal of the powers pulling the strings, and they will lie about anything if it suits their purpose.

Think of it as a form of liberal taqiyya.

31 posted on 11/26/2012 5:35:12 PM PST by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got eight? [NRA Life Member])
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To: taxcontrol

great post.

pinging myself to remember it.

thnx


32 posted on 11/26/2012 6:41:29 PM PST by digger48
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To: GraceG

Wrong. The correct question is “is this law Constitutional”.


33 posted on 11/26/2012 6:42:10 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Robert357

I want to learn how to make gunpowder .
Need to get prepping, I think it involves lots of urine and light hardwood charcoal


34 posted on 11/26/2012 10:02:05 PM PST by KTM rider
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To: taxcontrol

Thanks for the tip. I tried this (dry fired w/snapcap) on my 1911 and seemed to be a bit steadier. However, a couple of my 1911s have forward slide relief cuts and my index finger could get snagged it seems. I don’t know if I’d have the same problem with my Berettas.

I do think, however, that I wouldn’t use this on a revolver because of the chance for gas vent between the cylinder and the barrel forcing cone. The only revolver I have that wouldn’t do this is my Nagant Revolver which is a true gas-seal revolver.


35 posted on 11/27/2012 3:07:30 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: cherokee1

Actually, I practice this a lot at night while watching TV in bed. Point to the door or something without sighting, then looking at how the sights are lined up without moving my hand/arm. Getting much better at it.

My eyesight is actually improving with older age. Eyeballs shrinking or something - my myopia is getting better it seems according to the prescription changes. I think it’s time to get them redone again. I also am wondering about how laser surgery might do away with the need for specs on the range. Anyone out there have experience with this?


36 posted on 11/27/2012 3:11:30 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: William Tell

Re your post 22, isn’t it a shame that no organization has yet paid for a series of TV commercials aimed at Mr. and Mrs. Average out there to explain what an assault rifle really is?

You’d think the NRA with its deep pockets would have done this.


37 posted on 11/27/2012 5:39:50 AM PST by OldPossum
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To: GraceG

“Any so-called negative consequences are irrelevant if we can save the life of just ONE child, gunned down by these deadly tools of death spraying destruction through our peaceful neighborhoods.”

How was that? Actually not too good- the progressive spin machine would have done it slicker.

The actual goal is civil disarmament, so that only a government will have the means to project force. We can pretend it has something to do with street crime, but you can see that the progressives really do not care about street crime or the “death toll from cheap handguns”. In fact if pressed the progressives will pretend to care greatly about street crime, while passing laws preventing you from getting a normal sized magazine, effective ammo, body armor, or a robust semiauto, all of which have more to do with equipping an effective fighting force than it does with a yoot with a Lorcin .32 auto knocking over convenience stores.


38 posted on 11/27/2012 5:49:34 AM PST by DBrow
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To: Gaffer

Yeah it is very much a per hand per firearm kind of thing. Works in some situations, not so much in others. It is an alternative technique. Standard gripping is preferred but if the standard gripping does not work, it is something to try.


39 posted on 11/27/2012 8:00:45 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: SoFloFreeper

Watch for Chris Tingles & Retchie MadCow to start using code when referring to gun rights advocates: “those people”, “not our kind of people”, “bitter clingers”, “old white men”, etc. Also increasing numbers of Freudian references to inadequacy & projection.

“The chair is against the wall.”


40 posted on 11/27/2012 8:35:14 AM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: SoFloFreeper

“Mr. Obama is free of the pressures of campaigning - and free to lead the nation toward sensible laws that can help reduce the flood of guns and related homicides.”

Hmm, I wonder if the author knows the double meaning behind that sentence.


41 posted on 11/27/2012 12:29:09 PM PST by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: SoFloFreeper
If you wave a Twinky close to someone's face and eyes in a threatening, aggressive manner, is that assault? Would the Twinky then be called an "Assault Twinky"? Of course, carrying it along a little further, if you actually blind someone with a Twinky, it would probably be "battery", so it could then be called a "Battery Twinky", or a shorter version....maybe a "Batter Twinky".

Just wanted to clear up this "assault" weapon thingy. I may be mistaken and way off base, of course, so please step up and educate me.

42 posted on 11/27/2012 3:48:12 PM PST by Scooter100 ("Now that the fog has lifted, I still can't find my pipe". --- S. Holmes)
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To: Scooter100; William Tell
Okay, so after shooting from the hip, I've now gone back and read all the threads and thanks to WilliamTell I now have a definition of an "assault weapon".

So, to carry on with my analogy, if a Twinky was an approved piece of equipment for military maneuvers, or for use during the final phase of an attack, i.e., "the assault", then, with proper modification, it could become known as an "assault Twinky".

The modifications might possibly be a hardened, crush-proof case, waterproofed, snap-locked, improved grip, camo-wrapper, etc. However, it is still basically a Twinky, with its fluffy exterior and creamy center...Yum. So, the various modifications really haven't added or subtracted to its intrinsic "Twinkie-ness".

Guess I'm just never going to understand the vagaries of this issue.

43 posted on 11/27/2012 4:12:42 PM PST by Scooter100 ("Now that the fog has lifted, I still can't find my pipe". --- S. Holmes)
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To: Tzimisce

“The American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.

Seems fitting that it ends with the colonists demanding to be disarmed.”

Uhhh - not to disagree, but those clamoring for disarming of Americans are commies (if the leaders) or they are either ParasitePersons or Urban Ferals wanting safer stealing conditions.


44 posted on 11/27/2012 6:12:42 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Tzimisce
Tzimisce said: "The American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists."

I would say this differently.

"The American Revolution began when their own government, determined to collect taxes on tea and to punish the citizens of Boston for destroying untaxed tea, occupied the city with soldiers, surrounded it with the navy, and tried to disarm the people."

It's worth pointing out that Paul Revere did not shout, "The British are coming". He shouted, "the Regulars are coming out", meaning the regular army of his own government.

45 posted on 11/27/2012 7:18:19 PM PST by William Tell
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To: SoFloFreeper

Taking guns from private citizens might be an easier sell for Idi Obama if he were willing to relinquish all weapons he has in his possession, including those he surrounds himself and his 3 bit**** with. The Kenyan vulture wants it all. His desire is to selectively eliminate all opposition and if he can use all of his weaponry against an unarmed force, he will solidify total control. How is Bo any different than Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe?


46 posted on 11/28/2012 7:33:43 AM PST by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: Mikey_1962

It’s not about stopping criminal misuse of guns.
It’s about increasing what legally constitutes criminal misuse, so they have an excuse to jail your a$$.

“There’s no way to rule innocent men...”


47 posted on 11/28/2012 7:39:54 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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