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Asian Americans Turn Democratic [73% Voted Obama: End H1B Visas & Chain Migration]
LA Times ^ | November 23, 2012 | Taeku Lee and Karthick Ramakrishnan

Posted on 11/23/2012 7:39:06 PM PST by Steelfish

Asian Americans Turn Democratic Their support for President Obama on Nov. 6 caught many political pundits by surprise.

By Taeku Lee and Karthick Ramakrishnan November 23, 2012 As the dust settles on the presidential election, there seems to be a new theory daily as to why Mitt Romney lost and what it signals for the future of the Republican Party. Common to nearly all the speculation are the partisan implications of demographic change. The United States is shifting gradually toward a majority-minority electorate, with ever-growing numbers of Latino and Asian American voters. Notably, these groups are increasingly voting as Democrats. According to exit polls from Nov. 6, 73% of Asian Americans and 71% of Latinos voted for President Obama.

The high levels of Latino support for Obama were in line with expectations. The myriad preelection polls from Latino Decisions, the Pew Hispanic Center and many others pointed toward an overwhelming Latino majority in support of the president.

But the fact that nearly three out of every four Asian Americans voted for Obama caught most pundits by surprise. Moreover, Asian Americans, who voted in record numbers in 2008, appear to have mobilized an even higher turnout in 2012. Asian Americans are no longer a swing vote or a crouching tiger in the electorate; their political stripes are now distinctly Democratic blue.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: affirmativeaction; aliens; california; carolliu; h1b; lacanadaflintridge; lelandyee; prop209; proposition209; quotas; racenorming; sanfrancisco; sca5; tedlieu; torrance
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1 posted on 11/23/2012 7:39:10 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish

What is your problem with the H1B? I think it is a great program except that it is a lottery. Salary should determine the economic contribution a person will make to the USA, not a lottery.

Also, high income people on H1B VISAs are much more likely to be conservative than low income people on the same visa.


2 posted on 11/23/2012 7:44:23 PM PST by impimp
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To: impimp

We don’t need any more immigrants, we have enough people. As for the idea that high income people are more likely to vote Republican, that’s been proven wrong with the Asian vote.
Immigration Moratorium Now, before it’s Too Late.


3 posted on 11/23/2012 7:47:22 PM PST by River Hawk
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To: impimp
high income people on H1B VISAs are much more likely to be conservative than low income people on the same visa.

Source for this statistic?

The only H1B's I've known were Indians and "high" income, but I can't say I ever discussed their political persuasion. I'm not sure they even had one, as per American ideals, because much if not most of their income was sent back to India before they even saw it.

4 posted on 11/23/2012 7:51:13 PM PST by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Steelfish
[73% Voted Obama: End H1B Visas & Chain Migration]

Ending H1B visas for people who don't vote has nothing to do with trying to win over the Asian-American vote. The Asians - whether from China, India, Vietnam - are hard-working, educated, successful and basically conservative. If the GOP can't even manage to convince these people that the Democrats are opposed to everything Asian-Americans value, then the GOP is done for.
6 posted on 11/23/2012 7:53:18 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: workerbee
Most Indian H1Bs I know are low income. The high income people on H1Bs are more likely to be Caucasian, and Caucasians are more likely to be conservative than non-caucasians.
7 posted on 11/23/2012 7:54:25 PM PST by impimp
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To: impimp

The Indians I knew were all engineers and software consultants. (and I’m not talking about “call center” phone operators).

I don’t know any Caucasian H1B’s, high income OR low. Can you be more specific?


8 posted on 11/23/2012 8:00:30 PM PST by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Either that, or what “we” always thought “Asian-Americans” valued is completely wrong.


9 posted on 11/23/2012 8:02:52 PM PST by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: Steelfish

Loser RINO File.


10 posted on 11/23/2012 8:08:26 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: impimp

11 posted on 11/23/2012 8:11:29 PM PST by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: Steelfish
These folks have rituals, religious beliefs, engage in a guttural massacre of the English language, and filthy traditional practices that are alien to the US and all of western civilization.

And of course people said the exact same thing about the Irish and Eastern and Southern Europeans in the 19th and early 20th century.

12 posted on 11/23/2012 8:14:02 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: impimp

13 posted on 11/23/2012 8:18:51 PM PST by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
If the GOP can't even manage to convince these people that the Democrats are opposed to everything Asian-Americans value, then the GOP is done for.

The GOP is done for. Asians think the party is full of white racists, and when we try to argue otherwise people like the poster above come along and prove them right.

14 posted on 11/23/2012 8:24:39 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: impimp

What is your problem with the H1B? I think it is a great program except that it is a lottery. Salary should determine the economic contribution a person will make to the USA, not a lottery.

Also, high income people on H1B VISAs are much more likely to be conservative than low income people on the same visa.


You are the world? Citizen of the world? Do you vote for your country, the world. Does your election government, the world, enact your laws and tax you?

You are totally out to lunch about foreigners being “conservative.” The tech. industry and scientific and medical research industry prove you wrong. You have a lot of unanchored slogans echoing in your mind. These people come here and have NO IDEA why we are wealthy and free. They are conditioned to be socialists from the multicultural superior homeland.


15 posted on 11/23/2012 8:33:04 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Steelfish

> ...engage in a guttural massacre of the English language,...

How many of the following immigrants to the U.S. “engage in a guttural massacre of the English language”?

Nations Sending Largest Percentage Of Total U.S. Immigrants, 1820-1987

13.0% Germany
10.0% Italy
9.4% United.Kingdom
8.8% Ireland
7.9% Canada
6.3% USSR
6.0% Austria-Hungary*
5.0% Mexico

* All between 1860 and 1910 Source: U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service 1987 STATISTICAL YEARBOOK (1988) Readers are welcome to update the chart with figures for years after 1987.


16 posted on 11/23/2012 8:35:10 PM PST by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: Steelfish

The AA’s organized and voted against McCain last time because he called them gooks. That just got them started and got the liberal ones energized. This time they turned out in the blue states and blue areas and the conservative ones stayed home. Pandering to the AA’s has given us the worst energy secretary ever. Basically his Nobel prize means he doesn’t know how to say no to any asinine idea that someone in the Obama cabinet might have, and it also sucked him into the elite club of catastrophic global warming idiots.


17 posted on 11/23/2012 8:40:56 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: Steelfish; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; ...
RE :”But the fact that nearly three out of every four Asian Americans voted for Obama caught most pundits by surprise. Moreover, Asian Americans, who voted in record numbers in 2008, appear to have mobilized an even higher turnout in 2012. Asian Americans are no longer a swing vote or a crouching tiger in the electorate; their political stripes are now distinctly Democratic blue.
Many people have begun to ask: Why are Asian Americans so Democratic, and how did they get that way? These questions take on greater intrigue when we look at exit poll data over the last two decades. Asian Americans have demonstrated the biggest shift in their presidential voting preferences of any demographic group, whether by race, gender or age. They doubled their vote share for the Democratic candidate, from 31% in 1992 to 62% in 2008, and voted even more Democratic in 2012 (73%)
.“

I been noticing that for a while here on the East Coast. But I still get people claiming Asians are natural Republicans.
But the good news is Republicans get a good 90%+ of the FNC viewer base, the 50+ whites.

‘Natural’ Republicans are dying out and so to win the WH they are going to have to start convincing those who don't naturally agree with them that their positions make sense.

18 posted on 11/23/2012 8:42:32 PM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: Steelfish

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!


19 posted on 11/23/2012 8:44:03 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Labor unions are the Communist Party of the USA.)
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To: Steelfish; All

So only white Christians should come to this country??


20 posted on 11/23/2012 8:47:18 PM PST by KevinDavis (And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.)
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To: impimp

‘Also, high income people on H1B VISAs are much more likely to be conservative than low income people on the same visa.’

That’s false, as I’ve learned from 20 years working in the smeiconductor industry.

Asians and Indians and other assorted easterners are not conservatives, and they don’t give a damn about this country.


21 posted on 11/23/2012 9:02:04 PM PST by AlmaKing
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To: Steelfish
Asian Americans Turn Democratic

Huh... Funny, but I never thought of Asians as moochers and slobs.
(shrug) Oh well. I guess most of them are.

22 posted on 11/23/2012 9:07:19 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: KevinDavis

Only those who believe in the founding principles of our nation and they are generally those who are inculcated in the values of western civilization as given us to us by Judeo-Christian principles. Most Asians come from socialist countries where socialized medicine is a given.


23 posted on 11/23/2012 9:12:00 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Why should “we” need to win them over? If they don’t recognize the values differences and the harmful effects of “affirmative action’ BS then you’re asking for the impossible. Racial or immigration pandering won’t cut it, only the realization of the values and cultural differences with the left wingers will and that should be obvious.

I agree, end the immigration. There’s a ton of fraud in the process as well. Fake “marriages” within ethnicities, bar girls bringing the whole family here, marriages for green cards, tourist visas looking for spouses so they can stay here, etc. We don’t need more people here, they tend to settle in big cities anyway. Jobs first for Americans. Screw it, I’m done with “give us your tired, whatever” All they do nowadays is stab us in the back with Obama types.


24 posted on 11/23/2012 9:17:14 PM PST by A_Former_Democrat (Elections do have consequences, young people of America)
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To: Steelfish

I’m pretty sure Asians like freebies and government handouts too. What makes Asians any different than the other Obamazombie freeloaders? Everyone wants a free piece of the American pie because it’s owed to them for giving us the honor of having them live here.


25 posted on 11/23/2012 9:18:19 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Criminal defense lawyers won't have the Twinkie to kick around anymore.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

True. The less of them the better. End the H1Bs and chain migration. Buchanan had it right we are experiencing The Death of the West! Why would we support a migration stream where 3 out 4 vote for the Rats,.


26 posted on 11/23/2012 9:24:41 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

Hey, Asian Americans like their free ice cream too.


27 posted on 11/23/2012 9:36:13 PM PST by Dapper 26
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To: Jyotishi

>> How many of the following immigrants to the U.S. “engage in a guttural massacre of the English language”?

Ignore the idiotic comments. I’m guessing, however, the results likely reflected a stereotypical bias against the imperial White guy.


28 posted on 11/23/2012 9:39:46 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Steelfish

It’s kind of sad to see Republicans agonizing over how they can abandon the basic principles and values they have always stood for in order to lick the boots of “demographics” that don’t even identify themselves as Americans. Latinos and all hyphenated nationals who identify themselves by ethnicity have no interest in being Americans. They want to recreate their culture in a country where free food, healthcare and education are provided. Their only obligation is to vote for the Socialist party that supports them. Republicans are finished just like America is finished. The point of no return was election day, 2012. The Communist/Marxist/Socialist elements that my Father and countless other brave Americans fought and died to defend against now resides in the Whitehouse thanks to the abject stupidity of a dumbed-down public that couldn’t tell the difference between a Patriot and a traitor if their lives depended on it. It did and they didn’t.

I have always been a Conservative Republican . I’ll be dropping the Republican part since listening to my party leaders turn into sniveling cowards who sell out Americans for the favor of foreign nationals.

Early immigrants came here longing to be Americans and willing to do everything to support and advance the nation in return for the glorious freedoms of being American. The immigrants of today come coveting our resources and denigrating our history and culture at every turn.

From now on, the votes and the power will go to whomever can import and buy the most “demographics”. In addition, I suppose the next step is to promise all the Sandra Flukes that they can kill their children anytime if they are an inconvenience, not just in the womb.

There’s one thing worse than a Liberal Progressive devil and that is a Conservative Republican trying to go lower than one to win votes. My guess is that when the old-school, hardworking, taxpaying Americans are gone, the “demographics” will starve or turn on each other. It’s a cold comfort.


29 posted on 11/23/2012 9:49:46 PM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: sickoflibs; Steelfish; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; ...
>> I been noticing that for a while here on the East Coast. But I still get people claiming Asians are natural Republicans. ‘Natural’ Republicans are dying out and so to win the WH they are going to have to start convincing those who don't naturally agree with them that their positions make sense. <<

The difference here is that GOP talking heads say stuff like "Hispanics are natural Republicans because they're very devout Catholics and have strong family values" for PR purposes. The fact is most Hispanics and blacks don't fit the pattern of "natural Republicans" at all.

On the other hand, most of the demographics about Asian-Americans SHOULD make them "natural Republicans": they tend to be well educated with a college level education, have extremely low crime rates and come from stable, two-parent families, they are for the most very successful and high up on the economic ladder, and are very well assimilated into American culture -- Asians tend to want to "Americanize" their kids and give them anglo friendly sounding names ("Michael", "Ed", "Stephen", etc.) They not only surpass other minorities with these trends, but surpass white voters. Whites who fit into these patterns tend to be the most reliable GOP voters.

The problem is Asians aren't even close to competitive for the GOP. They're getting more and more Democrat and they might have even passed Hispanics in terms of % of how many vote Democrat. This isn't much of an issue nationally, as Asians really don't have big enough numbers to affect the outcome of any election except in Hawaii and certain areas of the west coast -- but it is a major dilemma because if this group isn't turning Republican when they match the patterns of "natural Republicans", there's the question of whether they ever would. One would presume Hispanic and blacks that are very well educated, successful, have stable families, and see themselves as Americans first and foremost -- would be more GOP friendly. But if Asians are still overwhelming Dem, there's little hope that changing the trajectory of other minority groups would start moving them into the GOP column.

30 posted on 11/23/2012 10:35:59 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; All

Asians contribute big to the Rats. Time to pull the rug on H1B visas and end chain migration.


31 posted on 11/23/2012 10:44:23 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: AlmaKing

You nailed it.


32 posted on 11/23/2012 10:45:29 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: AlmaKing

You nailed it.


33 posted on 11/23/2012 10:45:38 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: BillyBoy; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; ...
RE :”The problem is Asians aren't even close to competitive for the GOP. They're getting more and more Democrat and they might have even passed Hispanics in terms of % of how many vote Democrat. This isn't much of an issue nationally, as Asians really don't have big enough numbers to affect the outcome of any election except in Hawaii and certain areas of the west coast — but it is a major dilemma because if this group isn't turning Republican when they match the patterns of “natural Republicans”, there's the question of whether they ever would.”

Koreans have been immigrating to the East coast in huge numbers the past 10 to 15 years (starting longer ago than that) but it may be mainly the solid blues states where I have lived.

I will tell you who I have found are real conservatives and it sure isn't these Koreans. Its Chinese from the PRC. They are anti-socialist (see government as wasteful) and are strongly for traditional two parent families. But they have a nationalist loyalty to the PRC, so they got mad at Bush, then they got mad at Obama for bashing China.

RE :”The difference here is that GOP talking heads say stuff like “Hispanics are natural Republicans because they're very devout Catholics and have strong family values” for PR purposes. The fact is most Hispanics and blacks don't fit the pattern of “natural Republicans” at all.”

The flaw in this dumb idea is that they so many of them are doing poorly here and so they are very prone to Dems who come with help=$$$$ and talk compassion. They are not small business owners, most work for them. Republicans have little or nothing to offer to them compared to what O can.

But for survival Republicans need to learn how to convince (some) others of their views and why it is good for America and their Children.
This belief that there is 10s of millions of conservatives who haven't voted since Reagan who are just waiting for ‘someone exactly like me(them) ’ to run to get them to come out and vote and win in a landslide is just as silly as saying that Hispanics are (mostly) natural conservatives.

34 posted on 11/23/2012 11:16:13 PM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: Steelfish

I think the problem is with any type of visa. If it ain’t needed for hispanics to enjoy the benes of illeal living here, then why should it apply to anyone? C’mon in folks, the free stuff is great.


35 posted on 11/24/2012 12:21:14 AM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Steelfish

When is the treatment of American citizens in Mexico and their rights vs US treatment of Mexicans going to be an issue when we discuss amnesty ?

Ever hear of reciprocal aggrements ? These are arranged to protect the rights of American citizens working or living in other countries.

Why is it when it comes to citizens of other countries we are required to offer them the same privledges as we do to US citizens? But when it comes to US citizens who get in trouble or attempt to do business in other countries they do not get the same treatment their citizens get.

Americans can’t own coast land in Mexico. And get no title to it elsewhere. If they run out of cash they’ll get unceremoniously sent back or put in jail untill some relative comes up with the “fresh”. That’s just for starters as for granting them voting privledges yea let’s give Mexican citizens that right when American citizens vote in their elections .

What Romney should now explain are the reasons why those on fixed incomes must go on food stamps and apply for other “benefits” such as energy assistance etc.

The price of ; goods, services ,food, as well as the cost, use, and type of of energy resources, particularly coal,and oil, have all been driven up by Obama through his endless edicts, use of regulations and prohibitions all designed to change the systems of distribution and use of pleantiful resources to conform to his socialist scheme or ideal. Without any regard to the consequences. After all let US remember “to make an omlet ..”one must break a few eggs” and the one who made that remark and the followers of that ism who repeat it.”


36 posted on 11/24/2012 1:59:22 AM PST by mosesdapoet ("A voice crying in the wilderness make When is the treatment of Amstreight for the way of the Lord")
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To: A_Former_Democrat
Why should “we” need to win them over?

Because that's what political causes in a democracy do if they want to be successful - they win over converts.

I agree, end the immigration.

It's not going to happen. We can't even stop illegal immigration by building a border fence - couldn't get it done during 12 years of Reagan and Bush 1, couldn't get it done under 8 years of Bush 2. Legal immigration is not going to end. And if conservatives can't offer those legal immigrants something more worthwhile than the original poster's slander, those legal immigrants are going to vote Democrat.
37 posted on 11/24/2012 3:35:22 AM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: SaraJohnson

I am on an H1B and I am conservative. The only “scam” I know of with the H1B is that some companies apply for hundreds of H1Bs for people with worthless tech diplomas from India and who will get paid not much more than minimum wage.

Meanwhile foreigners who are needed to really grow a business (i.e. half million salary or more) lose out on the lottery to the people mentioned above.

There needs to be some VISA for either wealthy people or high income people to come into the US. The American economy demands it and it helps the country. H1B is currently one of the best mechanisms to do this. But it can be abused.


38 posted on 11/24/2012 4:28:13 AM PST by impimp
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To: Steelfish

There is an old saying.

“You reap what you sow.”


39 posted on 11/24/2012 4:36:50 AM PST by chainsaw ("Two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by Obama")
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To: workerbee
... much if not most of their income was sent back to India before they even saw it.

Which is precisely how they avoid paying all or most tax in the US.

... The only H1B's I've known were Indians and "high" income, but I can't say I ever discussed their political persuasion. I'm not sure they even had one, as per American ideals, ...

India is a very socialistic country with a big government doling out the bennies. No surprise that they would vote democrat. However our big government doles out much better bennies, especially to what would be lower caste.

H-1B's take jobs american can and will do at a salary americans can't survive on after full taxes. Their mere presence suppresses salaries via supply and demand.

It is not unusual for 'guest workers' to over stay their visa and morph into illegal aliens. The last I saw 40% and rising of the illegals in the US are visa overstays.
40 posted on 11/24/2012 6:04:28 AM PST by khelus
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To: impimp

You don’t know what you are talking about. I bet you don’t work where the majority of the workforce is Indian. They vote democrat, period.

H1b workers are taking our jobs.


41 posted on 11/24/2012 6:18:53 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: impimp

Another post of ignorance. Tell me where you work and how many of these H1Bs you know. Tell me how many people you know that were H1Bs, got green cards and eventually became citizens. I’m here to say for a fact, those that can vote, vote democrat, those that can’t wish they could.


42 posted on 11/24/2012 6:20:50 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: SaraJohnson

You are correct Sara, imp imp is clueless.


43 posted on 11/24/2012 6:22:14 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: SaraJohnson

You are correct Sara, imp imp is clueless.


44 posted on 11/24/2012 6:22:25 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: snippy_about_it

Is this what you want? Fine. Let me explain.

Most immigrants will vote Democrat. Most H1B VISA holders will vote Democrat (once citizenship is attained). Most high income H1B holders will vote Democrat. Most low income H1B holders will vote Democrat. My point is that the skew is even more toward Democrat for low income VISA holders than it is for high income VISA holders.

Nothing in this post can be refuted by anyone.


45 posted on 11/24/2012 6:33:04 AM PST by impimp
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To: snippy_about_it

My productivity is giving many Americans jobs. I have exceptional skills.

The H1B VISA program does help the American economy in the short to medium term. I am not saying that one can’t make a case that it is bad for the country in the long-term. But there are definitely economic benefits being achieved now.


46 posted on 11/24/2012 6:37:07 AM PST by impimp
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To: KevinDavis

We actually limit white Christians coming into this country. It would help to give preference to others nations that come closest to sharing uur values, which happen to be white Christian nations.

On a secondary note, it’s sad to see Vietnamese Americans voting Democrat — the people who wanted to give their homeland to Communist tyrants.


47 posted on 11/24/2012 7:06:03 AM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Then let them sink us into oblivion and see if you and others think the same, because that’s what going to happen.


48 posted on 11/24/2012 8:15:39 AM PST by A_Former_Democrat (Elections do have consequences, young people of America)
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To: snippy_about_it

I know he’s clueless. I work with basic science and medical research organizations across the nation. And there is no doubt the tech industry curves left because of foreign influence as well. They mostly operate in total ignorance about American freedom and it’s ideals and culture. There is, in fact, and illusion of multicultural foreign superiority going on there, big time. It’s not to our country’s advantage to be dominated by a foreign professional class that have not been educated in Western ethics. Being “educated” in University leftism/elitism is no education about freedom at all.

Another problem with foreign professional import is that it has allowed our public schools to get worse and more and more abusive of intellegence and the nature of human beings because American business does not need an American workforce. They can import and train their foreign tech workers and scientists who are not burdened with American leftist wacko “education” in their youth.

Foreign students and workers were permitted in their society to develop mental and social self discipline, read, write and do math while our children are treated as sexual objects and inmates serving teacher unions and left wing wacky tribal activists and abusers.


49 posted on 11/24/2012 8:24:39 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: impimp
There are American engineers and scientists, believe it or not. End H-1b visas now.

Funny story I am friends with an Indian guy who words with me, he was an H-1b now a US citizen,. His son was born here. I said when your son graduates from college with an engineering degree and an H-1b FOB gets the job he wanted and he struggles to get employment, how are you going to feel then about H-1b? He said he would be pissed off.

50 posted on 11/24/2012 8:26:34 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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