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Letís go over the fiscal cliff (Give the Democrats what they want)
Washington Post ^ | 11/17/2012 | Marc Thiessen

Posted on 11/19/2012 12:46:53 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Here’s an idea for how to start the New Year in a bipartisan fashion: Let’s go over the fiscal cliff!

Today, the only ones in Washington who advocate fiscal cliff-diving are liberal Democrats. It’s time for conservatives to join them. Letting the Bush tax cuts expire will strengthen the GOP’s hand in tax negotiations next year, and it may be the only way Republicans can force President Obama and Senate Democrats to agree to fundamental tax reform.

Right now, Democrats believe they have the upper hand in the fiscal standoff. Patty Murray (Wash.) — the fourth-ranking Senate Democrat and the leading champion on Capitol Hill for going over the fiscal cliff — says that Republicans are “in a real box” because “if they do nothing, those increased taxes [they oppose] will take place.” If Republicans dig in, says Murray, all Democrats need to do is “go past the December 31st deadline” and let the tax increases happen automatically.

There’s one problem with her scenario: While the Bush tax cuts expire on Dec. 31, so do a lot of tax policies the Democrats support. For example:

* The 10 percent income tax bracket would disappear, so the lowest tax rate would be 15 percent.

* The employee share of the Social Security payroll tax would rise from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent.

* An estimated 33 million taxpayers — many in high-tax blue states — would be required to pay the alternative minimum tax, up from 4 million who owed it in 2011.

* The child tax credit would be cut in half, from $1,000 today to $500, and would no longer be refundable for most.

* Tax preferences for alternative fuels, community development and other Democratic priorities would go away.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: debt; deficit; fiscalcliff; taxes

1 posted on 11/19/2012 12:47:07 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
because letting the Bush tax cuts expire simply restores the status quo during the Clinton administration

Actually, not.

Taxes are going up additionally because tax hikes in Obamacare begin in Jan '12.

That "we will just be going back to Clinton taxes" is yet another Obama lie.

2 posted on 11/19/2012 12:56:41 PM PST by what's up
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To: SeekAndFind
the rats, who have controlled the senate for 6 yrs now, have not passed a budget in 3 yrs....

if they don't care, I don't either....

but, if push comes to shove, just agree to the tax on the so called rich, and complain loudly and bitterly for all to see that not cutting anything will kill whatever is left of our economy....

if they cut defense, well go complain to Patty Mouse Murphy....since our state of Washington depends heavily on the military presense..

3 posted on 11/19/2012 12:56:46 PM PST by cherry
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To: SeekAndFind

Ok by me!


4 posted on 11/19/2012 12:57:55 PM PST by ully2
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To: SeekAndFind

I agree. Let all taxes go up on everyone. The Dems can try to blame the GOP but the great unwashed will only know that their taxes went up, 0bama is in charge and he promised they would never go up.


5 posted on 11/19/2012 12:58:58 PM PST by Truth is a Weapon (Truth, it hurts so good.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hear me out: Just enough Republicans should sign on if 100% of the Rats sign on. Just put it over the top by 1. Don’t fight. The American voter settled the issue. Make it sunset in 2016. If a Rat is in the WH fine. If a RINO/GOP is in the WH it should end. Let this country know what it voted for.


6 posted on 11/19/2012 1:00:13 PM PST by DIRTYSECRET
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To: SeekAndFind

Let’s do it.


7 posted on 11/19/2012 1:00:29 PM PST by gotribe
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To: SeekAndFind

If the republicans cannot fight for keeping our tax rate down/stable in this bad economy, they are proving there is no difference between the 2 parties. I work in the grassroots. I have never seen this amount of disgust for the republicans. I was prepared that Romney would not win. I think, if they allow the taxes to go up, they are pretty much old news. We lost a number of voters in 2012; that number will increase. Not many democrats will go into the republican column. Pretty much, a democrat stays loyal to their party while the repub walks away. It’s very telling, what is happening. We all are getting a tax increase in 2013. That is already set. No congressional debates. It’s set. Now, we are suppose to buy these of the cliff reasons (like the bailouts) to allow them to Tax us more to grow this out of control give away to the dems/repubs spending. The dems are setting the trap, and the repubs are walking right into it. When they do this, they will deserve to be removed from office on their reelection bids. It will happen. People are done with this one party get along we come together to rule over you.. It’s we, the people. I have never seen such blatant fraud in our government going on in front of us unchecked. They use to hide it from us as they could.


8 posted on 11/19/2012 1:02:30 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. As another FR member says..Obamas are living in gangster paradise.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Go for it...it’s already been negotiated and was signed by your president.


9 posted on 11/19/2012 1:02:46 PM PST by sanjuanbob
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To: DIRTYSECRET

Why not 100% of Republicans vote “present”? Put it all on the Dems.


10 posted on 11/19/2012 1:06:59 PM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: SeekAndFind

i concur


11 posted on 11/19/2012 1:08:29 PM PST by jjw
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To: Christie at the beach

I will bet if the repubs stay firm and not fold, the economy will not tank. It is a lie to grow the tax base to grow the government. Don’t fed the beast. if you do, it’s your own doings. And thank you for making me pay for more freebies.


12 posted on 11/19/2012 1:08:44 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. As another FR member says..Obamas are living in gangster paradise.)
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To: SeekAndFind

We need an AMT patch passed right now.
there is no reason not to do that.


13 posted on 11/19/2012 1:09:21 PM PST by DOGHEAD
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To: Christie at the beach

Don’t worry, you’re gonna pay anyway...Obamacare, carbon tax, capitol gains. Might as well get on with it.


14 posted on 11/19/2012 1:14:47 PM PST by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: All

We sure need some here.
FReepathon Day 50!

15 posted on 11/19/2012 1:17:03 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: ez

I am real worried. So, all these higher taxes and give them another check. No thank you! Some are making things much worse vs putting the pressure on the officials to keep the taxes stable. It is very troubling that the game is being played so casually to increase the spending.


16 posted on 11/19/2012 1:29:32 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. As another FR member says..Obamas are living in gangster paradise.)
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To: Christie at the beach
It is a lie to grow the tax base to grow the government.

You're right, of course. But that's not the point.

I consider this to be an "instructional" moment in American history. The vast lemming herd that voted for the Socialist-in-Chief has no idea that a fiscal cliff is just ahead. And if they are vaguely aware of such a thing, they believe that the tax-and-spend policies of the Democrats will save them.

Their eyes need to be pried open to the truth. Will it hurt? Yes. But pain focuses the mind and will get their attention. Socialism has consequences.

Bring on the consequences!

17 posted on 11/19/2012 1:31:30 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/treasury-secretary-geithner-lift-debt-limit-infinity


18 posted on 11/19/2012 1:34:54 PM PST by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: SeekAndFind

I was for this the day after the election.. I still am! Elections have consequences give the voters just what they voted for the fiscal cliff!!!! High High taxes!!!


19 posted on 11/19/2012 1:36:09 PM PST by tallyhoe
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To: SeekAndFind

....this kind of thinking got us Obamacare.....


20 posted on 11/19/2012 1:38:09 PM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every level and every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against yo)
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To: Flycatcher

and you just proved what a moderate republican or I don’t care voter is which got us in this jam. Go along. You are terribly wrong because once the taxes are increased, they only go UP. Play with fire because some of you are mad because Romney lost so give up, pay back to the rest of us that have a job who already are being soaked who do not want to give them more blank checks. Man, glad I was not brought up like this and had a great dad for guidance.


21 posted on 11/19/2012 1:44:11 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. As another FR member says..Obamas are living in gangster paradise.)
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To: 5thGenTexan

The Democrats won’t do it without the Republicans sticking their necks out; they’ll just scream that they “can’t” do it without the cooperation of the Republicans. Then they’ll beat Boehner black and blue for “obstructionism”. Boehner and McConnell won’t loudly ‘SPLAIN it to the people; and it’ll be the “mean old Republicans” again and “Bush’s” fault.


22 posted on 11/19/2012 1:46:34 PM PST by Twinkie (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The MSM is pretending as if avoiding the “fiscal cliff” is paramount. We are to do that through compromise, mostly Pubs compromising on tax cuts. I don’t get it. The fiscal cliff is a compromise; it is a mix of both sides. So what else are we looking for?


23 posted on 11/19/2012 1:47:10 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: DIRTYSECRET

“The American voter settled the issue.”

No it didn’t. Otherwise you wouldn’t need to tell them what to do. The voter left things almost exactly as they were before the election.


24 posted on 11/19/2012 1:50:05 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: Christie at the beach
ps the dems are not going to get the blame. They were rewarded at the polls, even after Obamacare. The GOP-e will loose more voters after the media blames them so we lose in the end..to get the base back out. Think long term damage. We need to be conservative every day in all political climates. Take care.
25 posted on 11/19/2012 1:50:20 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. As another FR member says..Obamas are living in gangster paradise.)
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To: Twinkie

Well, if they don’t announce anything and just do it at vote time, then the Dems will have caught the hot potato. What can they do, “uncast” their vote?


26 posted on 11/19/2012 1:53:07 PM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: DIRTYSECRET
"Hear me out: Just enough Republicans should sign on if 100% of the Rats sign on. Just put it over the top by 1."

Not necessary. The Republicans can (and should) all vote "Present."

But, and this is important,

The Repubs have the majority in the House. That means they can Name the Bill!

Call it the "2012 Obama/Democrat Tax Bill" or the "2012 Democrat Tax Increase Bill to Fix All the Problems in the US Economy."

Name it, then vote "Present."

27 posted on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM PST by eCSMaster (2012 elections: American Coup d'etat!)
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To: DOGHEAD; All
We need an AMT patch passed right now, there is no reason not to do that.

I spoke with CPA and EA gnomes and they are freaking out...

* AICPA I think denoted everyone's taxes will go up $3,500 per family.
* The lead time for new legislation is not enough for them to go to seminars, learn the new code, and or change the Tax Planning Software.
* They can't give multi year advice, (special situations).
* The EA see's they only solution as extending the tax season into May.
* And as you mentioned, AMT. It is not fixed for 2011, let alone 2012, people snagged may go from 4 million to 23 million. Again, the CPA is freaking out and asked even that I come in to make sure I am not in AMT land for 2011...

We are so FUBAR'd, people have no idea what they voted for again....

28 posted on 11/19/2012 2:02:27 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: eCSMaster

Name it OBAMACURE. That’ll make for catchy slogans in 2014. “Obamacare and Obamacure got us here. Now what?”


29 posted on 11/19/2012 2:10:06 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: Flycatcher

Yup. The burned hand teaches best.


30 posted on 11/19/2012 2:14:38 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Christie at the beach
I'll try to answer your illiterate and emotionally overwrought post as best as I can.

First, all these taxes are scheduled for implementation at the first of the year -- no matter what we do now. Can we overturn some of them in the foreseeable future? No. We control only the House. The Senate will not brook our efforts to overturn these tax increases. Ever.

Second: It IS possible that we can sustain the Bush tax cuts before they too go the way of the dodo in January. This is the only "revenue increase" that we have some leverage on. But at what cost? If the Democrats agree with us to sustain the Bush tax cuts, then they've made it clear that Republicans must then allow them to spend more on their programs. Don't fall for it. It's a deal with the devil. And the devil wins these things.

So what are our options?

A)Fight them on this battle. We can't win this one, but we can fight them. I believe that's your position. It's an admirable one. But this battle is unwinnable.

B)Instead of fighting and losing this battle, try to win the war. This battle is lost, but the war can be won if we can convert enough of the rabble to our side. How do you do this? Let them see socialism clearly for what it is. They chose it. LET THEM LIVE IT!

As the old saying goes, a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. If enough liberals are "mugged" by the nuts-and-bolts reality of real socialism, then we can grow a new grassroots conservatism to beat the socialists over the long haul. This isn't a short-term battle; it's a war.

And I'm willing to let Atlanta burn to win it.

31 posted on 11/19/2012 2:17:08 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: taildragger

Actually because of “ordering” rules of tax credits etc... about 60 million taxpayers will be affected.- Not able to even re-program the IRS computers until mid to late March.(If no AMt patch by Dec 31.)
60 million paying AMT would be a real wake call now!


32 posted on 11/19/2012 2:30:12 PM PST by DOGHEAD
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To: DOGHEAD

DH.... Please explain ordering rules. CPA I take it or are you a CFA?


33 posted on 11/19/2012 2:34:15 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: eCSMaster

I agree, burn it all down, let them spend to ruination, the idiot libs will laugh at the preppers until they starve to death.

Burn everything down except the cconstitution and amenments 1-10.

Then rebuild.

Oh and sign up as may people as you can, even fluffy the cat and donald duck for an EBT.


34 posted on 11/19/2012 2:58:13 PM PST by GraceG
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To: 5thGenTexan

The Democrats won’t do it without the Republicans sticking their necks out; they’ll just scream that they “can’t” do it without the cooperation of the Republicans. Then they’ll beat Boehner black and blue for “obstructionism”. Boehner and McConnell won’t loudly ‘SPLAIN it to the people; and it’ll be the “mean old Republicans” again and “Bush’s” fault.


35 posted on 11/19/2012 3:09:03 PM PST by Twinkie (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I say let them all expire.......

This way the some of the 47%, like my M-I-L, who is a millionaire and voted for Obama and does not pay a red cent in taxes, will start paying HER fair share.

She actually told me she would not vote republican because she would have to start paying taxes again.

The only reason she was NOT paying taxes was because what Bush put in place. Fricking hypocrite.....

I say let it burn down around them.


36 posted on 11/19/2012 3:44:05 PM PST by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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To: taildragger

I spoke with a friend of mine who does taxes yesterday about all this. I got blank stares and shoulder shrugs and panicked looks. All this crap is coming down quickly and the CPA industry has no clue how to respond to all this yet.

And the AMT will hit anyone who earns over $45k/year.

All these new taxes kick in in a a few weeks, but most people won’t realize what hit them until April of ‘14.

Get crackin, get smart and start figureing out what you can do to avoid all this junk.


37 posted on 11/20/2012 6:02:17 AM PST by Texas resident (Welcome to the nightmare)
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