Posted on 11/14/2012 3:52:19 PM PST by greyfoxx39
Do you know what your religion teaches about Mormonism and why they are not Christian?
ALL Catholics:
Here are the types of statements made by Mormon leaders about Mary that 1rudeboy, the Catholic, "defends":
Example: Some LDS leaders have tried to play it both ways re: describing Mary as a virgin (for example, LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie). Some clearly implied that she wasn’t (Brigham Young)
Example of LDS saying Mary was a virgin: "Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 822. [A CARM writer’s comment to this was: Let them proclaim it. But quite honestly, I fail to see how the Mormon people can assert that Mary remained a virgin in light of this evidence from their prophets and apostles. I see them saying two different things and backpedaling trying to sound Christian.]
Let’s deal with each of those descriptions separately, shall we?
”Literal”:
”The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." (Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Religious Truths Defined, p. 44)
“…Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (McConkie Mormon Doctrine, p. 742, 1966)
Did ya'll catch the conception part here being discussed as part of a “normal and natural course of events” process? Was McConkie just making that up out of thin air? No. He was simply repeating what earlier LDS “prophets” have said about this “natural process”:
...same physical sense that any other man begets a child...:
Brigham Young:
“God…created man [as spirit children], as we create our children: for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be.” Journal of Discourses (JoD), vol. 11, p. 122
(OK, Young's quote here = absolute statement that God only has one means of creation, and that the spirit, Jesus, was first “created” in heaven through the same process “as we create our children”).
“The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (JoD vol. 8, p. 115)
(Of course, if any poster wants to tell us that they were begotten of their fathers in some other manner that their fathers who ”partook of flesh and blood”--anything other than what Young called a “natural action”--we’ve got listening ears)
“When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it.” (JoD, vol. 4, p. 218, 1857)
What was Brigham meaning? “When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven.” (JoD vol. 1, p. 50, April 9, 1852)
What did Brigham mean by "who is the Father?...first of the human family?”
”Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation…Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.” (Millennial Star, Vol. 15, p. 770, 1853)
What other LDS “prophets” embraced Brigham’s “natural process” of begottening?
“…As the horse, the ox, the sheep, and every living creature, including man, propogates its own species & perpetuates its own kind, so does God perpetuate His.” (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Mediation & Atonement, 1882, p. 165 )
What about other LDS apostles? What did they say about this natural process?
"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (LDS apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547.)
Now I’ve cited McConkie twice, and a lot of folks have seen one or both of those quotes, but not nearly as many have seen this following McConkie excerpt…where McConkie makes sure we otherstand the literalness of what’s he talking about:
“We have spoke PLAINLY of our Lord’s conception in the womb of Mary. I am the son of my father and the father of my sons. They are my sons because they were begotten by me, were conceived by their mother, and came forth from her womb to breathe the breath of mortal life, to dwell for a time and a season among other mortal men. And so it is with the Eternal Father and the mortal birth of the Eternal Son. The Father is a Father is a Father…And the Son is a Son is a Son…a literal, living offspring from an actual Father. God is the Father; Christ is the Son. The one begat the other. Mary provided the womb from which the Spirit Jehovah came forth, tabernacled in clay, as all men are, to dwell among his fellow spirits whose births were brought to pass in like manner. There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord’s coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is that simple. Christ was born of Mary. He is the Son of God—the Only Begotten of the Father. (McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pp. 467-468, 1978 )
I am able to criticize my faith without having a bunch of internet jihadists calling me a hypocrite.
So throwing dogma at me is the same as throwing dogpoop.
Hmm...I wonder if it's because at least deep down, Romney knows how wacky & weird Mormonism really is...and he didn't want to get caught in the crosswinds trying to defend or even explain it???
Mormonism as 'Weird' -- Examples Thereof:
* Are Mormons "Weird"?
* Anne Frank, a Mormon?
* HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?
* About Mormonism - Mormon Underwear
* Mormonism and Mitt Romney’s “Weirdness”
* Planet Kolob to Mormons: It’s not our weird beliefs, it’s our credibility
* 21 facts everyone should know about Mormon teaching [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]
* Mormonism's Outlandish Heresies [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]
ROFLMAO!!!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Such a predictable bunch.
mormonISM is not Christianity, yet it is their right to take bus loads of people into neighborhoods and pester them.
Who has said they need to be stopped?
It needs to be exposed as the anti-Christianity that mormonISM is.
What mormon haters?
Who said otherwise?
Claiming to be a Catholic is extremely common for the fighters for Mormonism and against Christians, it is a constant, your anti-catholic attack was pretty revealing as well
Do you know what your denomination teaches about Mormonism and why they are not Christian?
Yet another aspect of Mitt being "mum" on Mormonism is it's already highly secretive...and Mitt's "secretive" approach to Mormonism furthered the Lds church PR effort to exercise Control -- including controlling direct access & info access to its secretive occultic ritualistic acts:
* Temple dress guidelines [MormonISM - Open]
* Is God's Kingdom a Kingdom of Secrecy? [Mormonism]
* The Secret LDS Temple Ceremony [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]
* Go Ahead And Skip That Temple Wedding (Mormon)
* Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]
* Mormons even marry the dead by proxy (Vanity: The OTHER World Series)
* Mormon bishop's daughter spills Romney's 'secrets' ...
* Mormon bishop's daughter spills Romney's 'secrets' ...
Maybe you all can go back to the Religion Forum and cry about it together.
HOGWASH
And the above will be our first nomination for "most unintentionally hilarious post" of the thread.
BAIL OUT! BAIL OUT!
The clown car arrived and they are coming to get you.
(psst - you are the only target here.)
You have made this ignorant charge before - prove that anyone on FR has said anyone can not beleive what they wish (you may exclude yourself in that)
your reply is totally inane. If he believes it, was taught it all his life, he is not lying, he is like a protestant....mislead.
Right after you give me a foot massage.
What really irritated me is when I was reading a thread about some totally unrelated subject, and "Beep!! Beep!! Wocka-wocka-wocka!!" the clown car would show up center ring and they'd all pile out with their 800-line pasted screeds in ransom-note typography.
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