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Divorce still damages children: Suffering goes on into adulthood and even old age
Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 23:55 EST, 6 November 2012 | Steve Doughty

Posted on 11/09/2012 10:52:34 PM PST by Olog-hai

Family breakdown is as devastating for today’s children as it was when divorce was a source of social disgrace, a state-backed report warned yesterday. Even though divorce is no longer considered ‘shameful’—as it was until the 1970s—the children of broken families continue to suffer destructive effects throughout their lives, the report said.

The paper, produced by a team of senior academics, found that the damage caused to a child by divorce continues to blight his or her life as far as old age. It said parental separation in childhood was ‘consistently associated with psychological distress in adulthood during people’s early 30s’. The report added: ‘This seems to be true even across different generations, which suggests that as divorce and separation have become more common, their impact on mental health has not reduced.’

It comes a week after figures were published showing that almost half of all children have now seen their parents break up by the time they are 15. …

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: children; destroythefamily; divorce; eussr; family
Full Daily Mail title (brevity is the soul of wit, gents):
No longer taboo, but divorce still damages children: Suffering goes on into adulthood and even old age
The leftists, even in spite of the obvious evidence, want to continue the long march into the dirt . . .
1 posted on 11/09/2012 10:52:40 PM PST by Olog-hai
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>> the children of broken families continue to suffer destructive effects throughout their lives, the report said.

Shouldn’t require a report to know this.


2 posted on 11/09/2012 11:03:52 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Olog-hai

People “get over” war, too, But a child is dreadfully scarred by divorce, as much as by the death of a parent. The evidence shows it. Of course, a bad marriage is also wounding, but on balance, in more cases, not as much as divorce.


3 posted on 11/09/2012 11:05:01 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Olog-hai

When my son was in middle school, some years ago, he asked me out of the blue in the car one time if I’d ever been unfaithful. Fortunately, it was easy for me to tell the truth. What was on his mind was a friend of his whose parents were splitting up because of some kind of an affair. What I remember most was that he stated to me that it was his GREATEST FEAR that his mother and I would break up. You know, in my youth, such a thing never even occurred to me.


4 posted on 11/09/2012 11:13:14 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: RobbyS

“We are no longer accepting comments”

Yada yada yada


5 posted on 11/09/2012 11:16:18 PM PST by acapesket
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To: dr_lew

I’m divorced, two kids...Even though my ex-wife asked for the divorce, there is not a day that goes by that I do not feel guilt for what my kids have had to deal with...divorce is a terrible thing, it is really a death, just the death of a marriage not a person....


6 posted on 11/09/2012 11:19:52 PM PST by usafa92 (Conservative in Jersey)
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To: Olog-hai

Divorce affects you through your entire life. As a child you love your parents yet feel you need to establish a loyalty to one or the other. The battle of the parents is to win the loyalty of the child which really screws them up. Divorce is destructive. Always has been, always will be.


7 posted on 11/09/2012 11:21:59 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: antceecee

watching my grown grandchildren suffer through a broken home has been one of my deepest pains.
Our hearts have bled for our beloved daughter, their mom, who was put thru a tornado and destruction of abuse and affairs.


8 posted on 11/09/2012 11:27:43 PM PST by pollywog ("O Thou who changest not, abide with me.".......)
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To: dr_lew

I went to a seminar on parenting teens, and the guy had written a book on adolescence. Scientific studies, etc. He said that adolescence is the time one spends “discovering themselves”. Back in Christ’s time there was no adolescence as since childhood the stories of their tribe had been told, and the kids KNEW who they were.

Nowadays with TV, numerous cultures, no discussion of family “tribes” adolescence doesn’t end until an average of 26 years of age!! (Some researchers say early 30’s).

One comment he made was that kids in a “nuclear family” don’t even see themselves as that - they see it as a set of parents ready to divorce and the family split apart. What a fear to live with! We have also had to reassure the kids that we aren’t getting a divorce a few times (back when they were younger).

“Yes, your mom and I WERE angry at each other. But we talked about it and will work things out. No, we are not getting a divorce. Marriage is NOT easy - do you agree with YOUR friends all the time? No - but they are still your friends. Life is tough sometimes. Get over it.”


9 posted on 11/09/2012 11:33:08 PM PST by 21twelve (So I [God] gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices. Psalm 81:12)
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To: Olog-hai

My friend volunteers in a Kindergarten class. She said you can spot the kids whose dads are not in the picture - they are untethered, off kilter. At FIVE!


10 posted on 11/09/2012 11:34:04 PM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: pollywog

I understand completely. I was the child.


11 posted on 11/09/2012 11:39:18 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Olog-hai

All I can say is after what I saw my dad go thru, I vowed I wouldn’t ever voluntarily go thru that.


12 posted on 11/09/2012 11:41:04 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Olog-hai

I’m 61 years old now, and I can look back and see the damage my parent’s divorce caused. By the time it was over, it damaged most of the relationships in my life.

It’s not something I dwell on. It is something I can look back on and make assessments about. And in truth, as an adult, you’re responsible for your own actions. I still see negative influences in there. They are obvious.

One thing I determined as a child, was that I would never divorce my children’s mother. And so I proceeded to fight divorce when my first wife wanted out. My determination since my damaged youth, caused me to stay in that relationship too long and damage my own children’s lives.

And then my children carried over the damage from our relationship into their adult lives.

My present wife has an ideal family setting. Her parents remained very close. When my wife went through her divorce, her psychologist she went to see to help her through, once actually told her that her parents had a dysfunctional relationship because they never argued.

I believe that for many people, life is a minefield that you do your best to get through unscathed.

I believe that God laid down the best blueprint possible. People would be a lot happier if they listened to Him more, and themselves a lot less.


13 posted on 11/09/2012 11:41:17 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 47 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: antceecee

And you can thanks the government for making it worse, especially dealing with getting child support pymts to the other spouse on time.


14 posted on 11/09/2012 11:42:44 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: bboop

” My friend volunteers in a Kindergarten class. She said you can spot the kids whose dads are not in the picture -they are untethered, off kilter. At FIVE!”

I believe it. My parent split up permanently when I was around 5-6 years old (and were divorced not too long after). I recall being “untethered, off kilter” at that age. And the people I was acquainted with, teachers fellow classmates, friends in the neighborhood, etc. all sensed it about me.


15 posted on 11/09/2012 11:44:25 PM PST by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: bboop

Moms arejust not the same, not wired the same, especially with boys. No amount of chemicals can make a boy behave like a girl.


16 posted on 11/09/2012 11:45:18 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Govt screws it all up, that’s for sure. My Grandmother (maternal) taught all of us to trust no one in the school or govt. Don’t talk about what goes on in the family, it’s none of their business.


17 posted on 11/09/2012 11:50:27 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: DoughtyOne

I’m there with you. Only about 15 years younger, and still (4 years post divorce) without a 2nd wife. 20 years of marriage, 4 kids, stoic and idealistic determination to keep the “marriage” alive.

Disaster. Absolute disaster.


18 posted on 11/10/2012 12:02:48 AM PST by dadgum (Overjoyed to be the Pariah.)
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To: DoughtyOne
I believe that God laid down the best blueprint possible. People would be a lot happier if they listened to Him more, and themselves a lot less

I agree, But we need to help adolescent boys learn how to find a good wife that will not lead to divorce after children are born.

19 posted on 11/10/2012 12:09:40 AM PST by tommix2 (,)
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To: DoughtyOne
... My determination since my damaged youth, caused me to stay in that relationship too long and damage my own children’s lives.

Now see, I just don't get this. I'm not judging, as I'm in no position to judge, having many faults, and more to the point I have no predisposition to judge. 'nuf said. But this language of "relationships" etc. perplexes me. It's like they're alien invaders or something. "What could I do? The relationship went haywire."

In the words of the poet, "You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but you can be happy if you've a mind to."

And oh yeah, "It's my belief, pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives." I'm not judging! Ringo Starr is judging!

20 posted on 11/10/2012 12:19:19 AM PST by dr_lew
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To: DoughtyOne
I can kind of see what your wife's psychologist was saying. My parents were married 50+ years until my father's death and yes, they could argue. But I never felt like they were going to get divorced, or even really upset by it— it's how they worked through disagreements and moved on. I guess it depends on the family— we argued hard and played hard! Catholic Democrat married to a Republican Protestant! We were raised Catholic and she became a Republican!

Anyway, I've been married 15 years and it can be tough because my husband's parents never argued that my husband can remember and then one day his father up and left. He always feels like if we argue it's going to lead to something really bad happening, yet then he holds it all in until he's ready to explode. Sometimes I provoke small disagreements to keep them from getting to large. There are so many little things I can see that his father leaving has done to him, but he doesn't see it. Like being way overprotective of our kids and wanting to be there for them every second because his dad wasn't. I understand but sometimes I just have to tell him to relax, you can miss one Soccer game when your working. It really bothers him.

21 posted on 11/10/2012 12:42:31 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Olog-hai

My parents were divorced but the way I look at it, at least I had two parents of the opposite sex.


22 posted on 11/10/2012 1:13:07 AM PST by GrandJediMasterYoda (Someday our schools we will teach the difference between "lose" and "loose")
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To: Olog-hai

Divorce usually kills children’s belief in God ( the Father) and makes them emotionally insecure so the state can manipulate them easily or make them dependents. The State can become parent which fills the void in the children whose loyalty is crushed and redirected to negative things. Warps their entire view of human relationships of men and women. They will usually copy the behavior of divorce. It is easier than staying married.

Dalrymple writes about divorce and unwed mothers destroying the children of England. They are imploding—the nation—because of the destruction of the family unit. But this has always been know by sociologists—destroy the family and you destroy the culture. (Cultural Marxists decided to do this in the 30’s—destroy American culture-— Mock Christianity and fathers and focus men in puerile pursuits so they never mature. Then get the mothers out of the home, particularly away from nurturing their children, so the children become unmanageable and make the “home” miserable. Then the family unit falls. Without morality—there will be no healthy family unit.

The state (Marxism) has created the conflict between the sexes, (feminisim/Friedan the communist) between adults and children (movies of rebellion against tyrannical, dumb parents who are usually Christian) and teaches the perversion of homosexuality to sexualize children—the easiest way to corrupt the innocence of a child and warp their thinking (Harry Hay was sodomized as a boy and became a radical Communist and founded the homosexual movement in America).

The media preaches dysfunction 24/7 in everything.....to cheat and lie and normalizes all perversions which denigrate human beings. Makes it easier to treat people in unchristian ways and split up. But the grass is never really greener for more than a very short time——the negatives are too costly when children are involved since all future relationships are negatively affected for the rest of their lives.


23 posted on 11/10/2012 1:37:08 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Olog-hai

Some o’ y’all are neglecting the frequent circumstance that one partner is a total POS and has done things for which no forgiveness is possible much less virtuous.

Some children know what’s going on and actually cheer their parents’ divorce, and by the stats given, around 78% of children whose parents divorce do just fine.

Cheat? You might fool the spouse, but the kids will know and they will hate you for it.


24 posted on 11/10/2012 1:52:23 AM PST by Bethaneidh (another literalist.)
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To: Bethaneidh

My parents were divorced and I can see it had a huge impact on me.

Sometimes one person is a POS but I won’t use the word partners. Thru Gods grace they can change if they are willing. Let no man separate what God has made.

From what I’ve seen its far more common for the two people to simply grow apart. Society teaches women that they don’t need a man. Society teaches men they are children and not worthy of being leaders.

To be a family you have to live as a family. Share meals together, play, work and fight together.


25 posted on 11/10/2012 3:34:59 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: bboop

“She said you can spot the kids whose dads are not in the picture - they are untethered, off kilter. At FIVE!”

Sad but true; when I take my my sons to the park or playground, you can tell which kids also are not spanked. My kids are like the Asian kids; you never see them talk back to their parents, whine when they don’t get their way, etc.

Not to toot my horn (because I’m a mess), but a few times mothers of unruly children in restaurants have told my wife and I how well behaved our boys are. I just don’t take sh!t from my kids, and don’t know why any parent would. You either straighten it out now, or when they’re teenagers...I choose to do it now.


26 posted on 11/10/2012 5:01:14 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: driftdiver

The government stepped in and removed the economic basis for families; it really shows. I couldn’t imagine not having both of my parents at home when I was younger, and I can’t imagine my sons not having the same.


27 posted on 11/10/2012 5:12:55 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Olog-hai
Yes, divorce damages children. However, in my case, my parents split up when I was about 13/14, and my life became more peaceful when my mom and I either lived with an aunt and uncle, or even alone in some crappy rental. My father was such a mean bastard; he neither liked nor respected women. He seemingly took more pleasure in withholding things than giving them. If he gave us something, he was likely to take it back when he next got irritated.

He refused to pay child support for me, and he hated it that I was loyal to her. Old bastard. He's een gone now for about 9 years; but If I ever visit Miami, Florida again, I intend to piss on his grave.

My mother's second husband wasn't much better, IMO. I left home a couple of months after they married. I think she was really worried about ending up alone. I don't share my mother's taste in men (all in her mouth, IMO), and I'm really glad that not all men are like those two assholes.

28 posted on 11/10/2012 5:29:50 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: DoughtyOne

The divorce boom of the Baby Boomers is one reason why the illegitimacy rate among Gen-X and Gen-Y is so high. These young adults fear divorce more than they fear having a child alone. So the girl goes ahead and has a baby - often in her 20s as a deliberate choice, not as an ignorant teen - hoping he stays to help but willing to go it alone if not.


29 posted on 11/10/2012 5:49:47 AM PST by tbw2
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To: Olog-hai

I agree with that. My maternal grandparents divorced, my paternal grandparents divorced. My parents divorced when I was 2, each remarried. Then my mom divorced my step-father when I was 13. She married again, then divorced again 5 years after that.

I don’t spend a lot of time wondering why I have my own problems with maintaining functional relationships. I’m on marriage #2 myself...and it’s my wife’s 2nd marriage as well.

As the song goes - “I wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger...”


30 posted on 11/10/2012 5:56:52 AM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around.")
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To: Olog-hai

Importantly, children raised in heterosexual, two-parent families are raised on the “success track”, academically and emotionally. By observation they learn how the opposite gender lives, and how a heterosexual couple interact.

Children with single parents, however, are on the “survival track”, which often means that they approach life from a predator-prey standpoint. And it is up to their individual strength to determine whether they are predator or prey, or oppressed to the point where they become oppressors when the opportunity presents itself. Which is why children of single parents are 60% more likely to become criminal offenders, and many of the rest are passive-ineffectual.

Children of divorce are likely a miserable blend of these things, and children of homosexual parents, while a relatively new phenomenon, are already being seen as trending towards the survival track.


31 posted on 11/10/2012 6:10:43 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: RobbyS

Worse than bereavement in many cases since the parents often compound their errors in custody and support battles.


32 posted on 11/10/2012 7:03:26 AM PST by relictele
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To: dadgum

Sorry to hear it. It was absolutely the worst thing I ever had to deal with. It does get better. Hang in there. This can be terribly destructive to a man. Support structures are there for women. In most cases, you’ll go it alone, very alone.

It does get better. You have my every good wish for a bright future, which will come.

Hang in there bud.


33 posted on 11/10/2012 7:09:33 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 47 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: Olog-hai

The pain never goes away, NEVER. It’s been 30 years for me, and it still hurts, and I still have anger about it.

Oh, my brother and I went on with our lives, we married and had kids ourselves, but I think the both of us long ago swore to ourselves and our spouses that we would never NEVER do to our children what was done to us — and our parents had an “amicable” divorce, with no fighting over property or custody.

Divorce is a scourge; it should be discouraged at all times, and especially if there are children involved.

Regards,


34 posted on 11/10/2012 7:12:06 AM PST by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: tommix2

I know what you mean. Girls need that help too, in reverse.

Look, as much as you and I wish we could spare our kids the ‘crash and burn’, chances are they’ll make the same mistakes we did.

I’m speaking from experience. I laid it out for one of my kids when they met someone I knew was going to present them with a hellish nightmare. Four to five years later, one kid in tow, it was a hellish nightmare. It played out exactly as I had predicted. I doubt the kid even remembered.

That’s life unfortunately.


35 posted on 11/10/2012 7:14:50 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 47 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: dr_lew
My determination since my damaged youth, caused me to stay in that relationship too long and damage my own children’s lives.

Now see, I just don't get this. I'm not judging, as I'm in no position to judge, having many faults, and more to the point I have no predisposition to judge. 'nuf said. But this language of "relationships" etc. perplexes me. It's like they're alien invaders or something. "What could I do? The relationship went haywire."

Marriage is a relationship.  And yes, sometimes they do go haywire.  And yes, sometimes it's like the other person has been occupied by an alien invader.

And to my spouse, I seemed like I had been occupied as well.


In the words of the poet, "You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd, but you can be happy if you've a mind to."

We'll see how happy you're of a mind to be, when at 40 all you have to show for twenty years of work and relationship is a couple of suit-cases worth of clothing and belongings, your credit has been destroyed, you have no place to stay, the children you woke up with every morning are now only a part of your life every other weekend and you have no place to take them, you basically have zero input into what they can and can't do, you are tasked to provide money that is diverted to R&R purposes for your ex spouse so they can go out clubbing every night and out of town every weekend, your children remember nothing of the tens of thousands of hours you spent doing fun things together, and they're spouting catch phrases your ex uses to denigrate you.  As you walk a mile to catch the nearest bus to get to work, and wait for it to show up while it's raining at the rate of about three inches an hour, you actually realize this is an enhancement to your meager existence.  With all due respect to you and Roger Miller, you know what you can do with the roller-skates.


And oh yeah, "It's my belief, pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives." I'm not judging! Ringo Starr is judging!


Pride huh?

LOL

36 posted on 11/10/2012 7:41:57 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 47 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: RobbyS

I use to pray my parents would divorce, because of the non stop fighting. But they never did.


37 posted on 11/10/2012 7:44:58 AM PST by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: CaptainK

But the evidence shows that, on balance, divorce results in more anguish than bad marriages. It also does not end the bitterness felt by a parent who retains custody, or another parent who is left out in the cold. Divorce is like abortion: a bad solution to a bad problem. That is because usually the divorcing couple are,usually, thinking only of themselves. That is also the case in bad marriages.


38 posted on 11/10/2012 8:34:37 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: pbmaltzman

So divorce was no solution was it? Your father was damaged goods, and despite the divorce, you are filled with the same rage he felt. The sin of the father is visited upon the generations. That has been true since Adam.


39 posted on 11/10/2012 8:45:20 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS; pbmaltzman

and despite the divorce, you are filled with the same rage he felt.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even if the parents had stayed together there still would have plenty of reason for long lasting rage. ...Maybe even **more** reason for rage.


40 posted on 11/10/2012 8:52:48 AM PST by wintertime (:-))
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To: Olog-hai

Click, click click- a whole bunch of very serious puzzle pieces in my emotional junk-drawer just came together in understanding why certain things are the way they are in my life.

Thank you- this thread has hit home like no other. Going to donate to FR today in appreciation.


41 posted on 11/10/2012 9:33:30 AM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: wintertime

That is to ignore the elephant in the room: divorce is like cutting the Gordian knot. It solves nothing, it only destroys. It promises happy outcomes it does deliver. Sort of like adultery, or getting drunk. The hangover is worse than the pain you are trying to escape.


42 posted on 11/10/2012 9:47:28 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS

Obviously, your eye hasn’t been blackened.


43 posted on 11/10/2012 9:58:42 AM PST by wintertime (:-))
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To: wintertime

You presume wrongly.


44 posted on 11/10/2012 10:16:47 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: wintertime
Let me see... the old bastard was physically and mentally abusive to me, and nothing I ever did was good enough for him.

My fraternal twin was his favorite to such an extent that not only we sisters were jealous, but my mother was jealous too. It's a very stupid man who does that.

And yeah, there have been other men for whom nothing was ever good enough. Fortunately I'm with someone better now.

Oh, yeah, I'm 6'1"' and although I am not and was not ugly, there have been times when it has been painful to see that a lot of men prefer women who are a lot smaller, less intelligent, etc., than they themselves are.

One ex-boyfriend had an ex-girlfriend from hell. About 5 feet tall with big boobs, and a real beeyotch in many ways, including promiscuity and multiple children out of wedlock. I hated her for the way she treated my ex and those kids, and also other men. But as long as her looks held out, she could get away with outrageous things. Made her look dumb, and made the men look dumb too for having anything to do with her.

Yes, it might have been nice to have more of a choice, instead of merely taking what I could get.

Anyway, I'm glad there are some decent men in this world. I finally got together with one.

45 posted on 11/10/2012 10:17:09 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: pbmaltzman
He seemingly took more pleasure in withholding things than giving them. If he gave us something, he was likely to take it back when he next got irritated.

My (hardcore leftist education-establishment) stepmother was the same way. I eventually stopped seeking to engage in any activity that she could take away, and missed much that would've been worthwhile in my high school years because of it.

When I realized how to Galt a control freak like her and started to do so, things went from bad to worse. I got thrown out and sent to live with relatives in a distant city.

That ended up being a positive thing in the end, though. I finished HS in a new school and began to see that there was something other than illogical, dysfunctional leftism in the world (thanks Andy S. at CHS for pointing me in the right direction).

46 posted on 11/11/2012 2:36:48 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: Olog-hai

placemark


47 posted on 11/11/2012 6:38:40 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Riley
Look, a lot of us grow up with a world of pain and problems. I'm at last to the oint in my life (now 59) that I realize I've just got to work with the hand I've been dealt, and do the best I can. Yes, I might have been able to do better, but I also know I can't change history.

Still, if I ever do go back to Miami, I will piss on the family graves (father's side). The last uncle on that side promised me he was remembering me in his will, but it was total BS. The lawyers told me there was nothing in the will or trust for my sisters and me.

At least I've always been willing and able to work to support myself, even if I wasn't doing a lavish job of it. We're going to get out of California hopefully soon. Right now, I figure that once we get to northern Arizona, we can save significantly on rent and utilities. Maybe we'll even own property at some point.

Life has been difficult at times, but it's still a gift.

48 posted on 11/12/2012 1:08:53 AM PST by pbmaltzman
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