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Some Thoughts On The Catholic Vote
http://www.catholicleague.org ^ | November 9, 2012 | Bill Donohue

Posted on 11/09/2012 9:46:30 AM PST by NKP_Vet

Catholics are a quarter of the electorate, and they voted for Obama over Romney by the same margin as the total electorate, 50%-48%. Contrary to what many pundits are saying, this suggests that the bishops’ campaign for religious liberty, waged against the Health and Human Services mandate, actually paid off: Obama got 54% of the Catholic vote in 2008 to McCain’s 45%.

Some commentators talk about the Catholic vote as if it were monolithic, and others say it doesn’t exist. It would be more accurate to say there are four Catholic votes: practicing and non-practicing; white and Latino.

Among practicing Catholics, Obama received 42% to Romney’s 57%; among non-practicing Catholics, Obama picked up 56% while Romney got 42%.

White Catholics gave Obama 40% of their votes while Romney earned 59%; Latino Catholics gave Obama 71% of their votes while Romney earned 27%.

From previous survey research published by the Pew Forum, we know that practicing Latino Catholics are less likely to support the Democrats than are non-practicing Latinos.

What this shows is that the more practicing a Catholic is, of any ethnic background, the less likely he is to support the more secular of the candidates.

Finally, there is a serious question whether non-practicing Catholics should be considered Catholic. By way of analogy, if someone tells a pollster that he is a vegetarian, but has long since been a veggie-only eater, would it make empirical sense to count him as a vegetarian? Self-identity is an interesting psychological concept, but it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of a person’s biography.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho2012; catholicvote; christianvote; romney2012; sourcetitlenoturl
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Translation. Hypocrites that don't practice their faith voted for Obama, no matter what demonination. Romney got the ones that actually try to live their faith. But we have more hypocrites than real Christians so the communist carried the day.
1 posted on 11/09/2012 9:46:32 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Excommunicate them.


2 posted on 11/09/2012 9:49:30 AM PST by Heartland Mom ("Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: NKP_Vet

Re-translation: spriritual revival has the side benefit of an electorate that makes better choices.


3 posted on 11/09/2012 9:51:45 AM PST by Skulllspitter
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To: NKP_Vet
Among practicing Catholics, Obama received 42%

Astonishing! It would be interesting to know how the local priests voted.

4 posted on 11/09/2012 9:57:28 AM PST by aimhigh
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To: NKP_Vet

Translation. Hypocrites that don’t practice their faith voted for Obama, no matter what demonination. Romney got the ones that actually try to live their faith. But we have more hypocrites than real Christians so the communist carried the day.

Yep that is it!!!! You can’t beat Santa Claus!!!


5 posted on 11/09/2012 10:01:39 AM PST by tallyhoe
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To: NKP_Vet
I would not want this sort of thing to be seen as a "Catholic" problem. As you say, this is pretty widespread among the denominations.

I would like to see religious leadership make a real effort to tell people which political issues are in line with their faith. There is right. There is wrong. The religious leaders are supposed to help people see the difference.

And if the IRS has a problem, it should be pushed to the supreme court. Black churches push socialism from the pulpit all the time. We can, and should, push from our pulpits.

6 posted on 11/09/2012 10:01:44 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
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To: Heartland Mom

Secret Ballot....however, I bet God’s recording angels are busy taking notes!


7 posted on 11/09/2012 10:01:49 AM PST by TEXOKIE (Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. EdmondBurke)
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Bill would say that almost 70% of the white practicing Catholics voted Romney.

Not true. Almost 40% of the white practicing Catholics did not vote. So they did not vote in the Congressional and state races, which is more important. Considering most do not live in a swing state.


8 posted on 11/09/2012 10:01:57 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (campaigning for local conservatives)
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To: aimhigh
My independent, fundamental Baptist pastor urged us to use our spiritual eyes and minds and choose the best candidate for Christian values ... we were electing a president, a leader, not a pastor.

Privately, my church was voting for Romney in spite of the religious difference .... which is GREAT, but the man is good, and THAT counts for a LOT.

9 posted on 11/09/2012 10:04:06 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: NKP_Vet

“What this shows is that the more practicing a Catholic is, of any ethnic background, the less likely he is to support the more secular of the candidates. “


the problem with this is several fold....

1) there is no measure listed of the % of practicing latino Catholics who voted Romney/obozo...

2) there is no measure on the % of practicing latino Catholics vs non-practicing latino Catholics...

3) this is another area where the GOP has fallen short- getting into the areas where there are practicing latino Catholics and displaying how the liberal agenda is anti-Catholic/Christian....


10 posted on 11/09/2012 10:07:28 AM PST by God luvs America (63.5 million pay no income tax and vote for DemoKrats...)
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To: NKP_Vet
there is a serious question whether non-practicing Catholics should be considered Catholic

LOL, don't count on this changing anytime soon. It's too much benefit to the Left to claim Catholics as their own. Psy-ops and all that.

11 posted on 11/09/2012 10:07:46 AM PST by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

do you have a link for this?? i’d be interested to take a look....


12 posted on 11/09/2012 10:08:34 AM PST by God luvs America (63.5 million pay no income tax and vote for DemoKrats...)
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To: NKP_Vet

There is no bigger supporter of the welfare state and thus welfare state politicians and the Dem party than the Catholic bishops. They love this destructive system based on envy, jealousy, covetousness, bitterness and theft. They promote this all the time and then they say oh, no, don’t vote for pro-abortion candidates. Good luck with that. Choosing which sins are ok and which are not is kinda tricky business.
Most Christians would rewrite Jesus’s parable and take the golden talents from the man with 5 and give them to those who had fewer or none.


13 posted on 11/09/2012 10:09:08 AM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: TEXOKIE
Yes, a secret ballot, but specifically address the issue from the pulpit and put it in the bulletin: if you voted for Obama in the presidential election, that was a mortal sin. This was specified in the Catholic Voter’s Guide which you were encouraged to avail yourselves of. As such, you are in a serious state of sin and should not partake of Communion until you are reconciled with the Church.
14 posted on 11/09/2012 10:12:02 AM PST by Heartland Mom ("Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: God luvs America

you live on the east coast.

Go to Daily Mass ... politely ask a few people if they found it hard to vote or did they just get too busy.

Sure, there is polling. Until you hear it yourself, you cannot put a face on it. And that is the daily communicants.

Nobody would dare ask the Sunday Catholics. Your pastor would be appalled if you suggested a show of hands. (”Everyone who was able to vote, raise your hand!”)


15 posted on 11/09/2012 10:17:22 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (campaigning for local conservatives)
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To: NKP_Vet

Growing up we learned to create pictures of Jesus out of dried pasta as kids, as teens we thought John Paul II was pretty cool but learned next to nothing about doctrine outside of a few basics, as adults we read vague pamphlets about “voting our consciences” — I had hope that bishops FINALLY speaking up would be listened to but I should have known that is a foreign concept to my peers.


16 posted on 11/09/2012 10:19:25 AM PST by ShovelPenguin
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To: NKP_Vet

ItWere practicing Catholics suppose to vote for a man who promised NEVER to infringe on a womans right to choose? Or the Father of gay marriage? Or a man who as Governor tried to force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions, and was responsible for Catholic Charities to close down adoptions in Mass. because they refused to provide gay adoptions. We were given no choice on those issues.


17 posted on 11/09/2012 10:19:25 AM PST by brightright
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To: NKP_Vet

I’m seeing dozens of postings on this subject in FR.. What no one is pointing out is that MSM is killing stories on reporting about Obama’s war with the Catholics . I’ll bet that at most of those non practicing Catholics voting for Obama haven’t any idea of what is going on or about the law suits on contitutional ground that are being filed.


18 posted on 11/09/2012 10:20:20 AM PST by mosesdapoet ("Vengence is mine".....Thus sayeth the Lord.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

i spoke to people leading up to the election at 5:30 mass on Saturday....just about all were voting for Romney...


19 posted on 11/09/2012 10:22:47 AM PST by God luvs America (63.5 million pay no income tax and vote for DemoKrats...)
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To: NKP_Vet

We have a 150 years of the same thing.

Catholics vote democrat, protestants vote republican.


20 posted on 11/09/2012 10:35:25 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was not the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: NKP_Vet
That a large segment of the Catholic population will reliably support a pro abortion/birth control/gay marriage candidate appears to be a reality that many Catholics simply cannot accept.
Surely this segment can't be “good” Catholics! But according to whose definition? According to what metric?

Show me the official statement that says a Catholic who attends church only occasionally is not a “good” Catholic.

The majority of Latino Catholics, the fastest growing Catholic group, will support a pro abortion, etc. candidate.

The Catholic church hasn't figured out what to do with this group that it depends upon for future growth and platitudes about “evangelizing” ring hollow when a sizable portion of the membership is willing to hold the coats of those practicing or advocating a “grave sin”.

21 posted on 11/09/2012 10:38:05 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: aimhigh
Whether a Catholic is “practicing” is subjectively defined when it comes to polls. Objectively, “practicing Catholic” means one who goes to church every Sunday and on holy days of obligation. I'd wager about 70% of even the Catholics who call themselves “practicing” go once a month or even just on Christmas and Easter.

I am a miserable sinner who makes no claims to personal sanctity, but I happen to go to Mass every week and I can tell you that the percentage of Catholics who go to church every week who voted for Romney is much higher than 57%.

22 posted on 11/09/2012 10:41:09 AM PST by utahagen
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To: ansel12

Baloney. Your assertion is fifty years out of date. First separate white Catholics from Latino Catholics. Then, take the white Catholics and separate those who go to church every Sunday from the EasterandChristmasOnly ones. White Catholics who go to weekly Mass are heavily Republican. In 2008, my hometown, an affluent suburb of NYC that is half white Catholic, half WASP, the breakdown was this: Catholics who go to church every week went dramatically for McCain, and it was among the WASPs whom Obama was the most popular.


23 posted on 11/09/2012 10:48:00 AM PST by utahagen
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To: ansel12
Catholics vote democrat, protestants vote republican.

Maybe that's true for the national average. Here in Madistan, WI, protestants vote for democrats, too.

24 posted on 11/09/2012 10:49:25 AM PST by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: ansel12

So the 60% of practicing Catholics who voted for Romney don’t even exist? I must be invisible.


25 posted on 11/09/2012 10:50:47 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: count-your-change
Show me the official statement that says a Catholic who attends church only occasionally is not a “good” Catholic.

Any traditional Catholic catechism will tell you that missing Mass, even once, on a Sunday or holyday of obligation, without a serious reason (like illness), is a mortal sin. Attendance is not optional.

26 posted on 11/09/2012 10:55:07 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: NKP_Vet

Bill Donohue strongly defended Cardinal Dolan’s Al Smith laugh-fest with Obama. Why should I care about anything he has to say?


27 posted on 11/09/2012 11:01:48 AM PST by schmootman
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To: count-your-change

“The majority of Latino Catholics, the fastest growing Catholic group, will support a pro abortion, etc. candidate”

Any person who calls himself a Catholic and support pro-abortion candidates and homo “marriage” candidates have forfieted the right to call themselves Catholic. They are supporting intrinsic evil and non-negoiative moral issues of the CHurch and should not show their face in a Catholic Church. But sadly the vast majority of the latinos that support Obama know nothing of their faith requirements and only want free handouts from the same government that let them enter the states illegally in the first place. Politicians that call themselves Catholic but support baby killing and queer “marriage” are causing great scandal and should be pubically ex-communicated from the Church, but the spineless bishops will not do it. The dollar means more to most bishops than following the word of God.


28 posted on 11/09/2012 11:02:41 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: Campion

Catholics have always voted democrat (with a handful of exceptions), including before the recent influx of Hispanic members of the Christian denomination.


29 posted on 11/09/2012 11:02:50 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12

“Catholics vote democrat, protestants vote republican”

Wrong. Church goers of both demoninations vote republican, hypocrites than never go to church are reliable democrat voters. The biggest hypocrites of all are blacks, who give the most anti-Christian president in history over 90% of their votes because of welfare and the color of his skin. To them the free stuff trumps the word of God.


30 posted on 11/09/2012 11:09:54 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: utahagen

Catholics have always voted democrat (with a handful of exceptions), including before the recent influx of Hispanic members of the Christian denomination.

You just lived through the best Catholic voting period of American history, the Catholic vote went republican for the first time, in 1972, (with the probable exception of 1956 when many or most sources think that they voted republican) Catholics voted republican 4 more times during the 40 years after that.

It looks like that history thwarting period is over, as the Catholic vote returns to it’s normal place in American politics.


31 posted on 11/09/2012 11:10:33 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12

Like talking to a wall.


32 posted on 11/09/2012 11:14:03 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: NKP_Vet

We have the voting history of the United States.

Catholics have always voted democrat with 5 to 6 exceptions, (depending on the source on 1956).

Protestants have always voted against the democrats, with the exception of 1932, 1936, and 1964.


33 posted on 11/09/2012 11:14:19 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: Campion
Some people have no interest in the truth. They simply follow the Rules:

Rule One: "Rome" is the locus of all evil.

Rule Two: In case of doubt, see Rule One.

Corollary: "Rome" must be destroyed. All else is irrelevant.

34 posted on 11/09/2012 11:18:42 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Campion

Because the Catholics are a single denomination, a single church of baptized members counted as Catholic by themselves and by their church and it’s leadership over in Europe.

The Catholic vote has never varied, until recently, but that was short lived, and three of those elections came from Reagan, the Catholic vote for Obama is normal in every way in regards to 150 years of Catholic voting.


35 posted on 11/09/2012 11:20:12 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: schmootman

You are so right.Archbishop Dolan gave Obama the stamp of approval.Suppose Cardinal Dolan said he would not sit down and smile with the most pro-abortion President in the history of the United States.


36 posted on 11/09/2012 11:22:16 AM PST by ardara
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To: ansel12

You’re not communicating, just repeating yourself.


37 posted on 11/09/2012 11:23:50 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: count-your-change

“Show me the official statement that says a Catholic who attends church only occasionally is not a “good” Catholic’

A Catholic is REQUIRED to attend weekly Mass unless their is some grave reason why you can’t attend. A Catholic can not support a pro-abortion or pro sodomite “marriage” politician. It is committing a grave sin and must be confessed and you must not do it again. You must be sincere in wanting to live your life according to the Church. Catholics can defer on the death penalty. Can defer on social “justice”, but can not defer on abortion and sodomite “marriage” or anything to do with taking the life of someone else. These are non-negotiatible moral truths of the Church and if you can’t adhere to them, you need to find yourself another faith because you are not a Catholic any longer. “Catholics” who support democrat politicians know the truth and know what they are doing is wrong. They need to get out of the Catholic Church if they can’t abide by the teachings of the Church. It’s that simple.


38 posted on 11/09/2012 11:24:35 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

CATHOLICS FOR OBAMA (CFO)

“A project of Catholic Democrats, Catholics For Obama (CFO) was formed to promote the presidential candidacy of Senator Barack Obama in 2008. Noting that “Americans are weary of being pitted against one another over issues of race, disparity of wealth, and religion,” CFO stated that “Senator Obama has made bringing Americans together to solve common problems the central theme of his campaign.” One CFO board member called Obama “a presidential candidate of historic accomplishments,” and lauded his background as a 1980s-era community organizer whose efforts “to [economically] empower the lives of thousands of people” had received vital “funding from the U.S. Bishops.” Obama’s employer in the eighties had been the Chicago-based Developing Communities Project, an initiative of the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.”

Though Obama has been an unwavering backer of abortion rights throughout his years in politics—he opposed even the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act as a state senator—CFO says that by the standards of “Catholic Social Teaching,” Obama is technically “pro-life” because he “has spent his entire career striving for the common good.” Specifically, CFO praises the President for supporting “health care programs that will cover all Americans, a living wage for working families, and solutions that allow distressed families to stay in their homes.” Moreover, CFO reasons that Obama’s presidency will ultimately reduce the number of abortions “by promoting health care for pregnant women and better infant care, day care and job training.”

Maintaining that “the state has a positive moral function to promote the common good,” CFO views the expansion of governmental power as a preferred means of solving society’s most pressing problems.

The president and board chairman of CFO is Patrick Whelan, who also serves as president of Catholic Democrats. A member of the pediatrics faculty at Harvard Medical School and a co-director of Pax Christi Massachusetts, Whelan was formerly a national co-director of Catholics for Kerry; he served for three years on the Democratic National Committee’s Faith Advisory Council under Howard Dean; and he volunteered with the Catholic Worker communities in Los Angeles and Houston.

Other CFO board members include:

- Victoria Reggie Kennedy: The widow of the late Senator Edward Kennedy, Victoria is an attorney and an activist who has been an official with numerous groups focused on reducing gun violence and restricting access to firearms.

- Kathleen Kennedy Townsend: The eldest of Robert F. Kennedy’s eleven children, Townsend served two years as deputy assistant attorney general during the Bill Clinton administration, and later as Maryland’s lieutenant governor (1995-2003).

- Thomas P. O’Neill III: O’Neill was lieutenant governor of Massachusetts from 1975-1983. Today he is CEO of O’Neill & Associates, a government and public-relations firm in Boston. (Tip’s son)

- James Roosevelt, Jr.: Formerly the chief legal counsel for the Massachusetts Democratic Party, Roosevelt currently co-chairs the Rules and By-laws Committee of the Democratic National Committee. He is also president and CEO of the Tufts Health Plan. (FDR’s grandson)

- William D’Antonio: This retired professor of sociology was once the CEO of the American Sociological Association.

- Lisa Schare: This Cincinnati-based high-school art teacher serves as state chair of the Catholic Democrats of Ohio. A longtime Democratic Party activist, she did volunteer work for the Clinton/Gore, Gore/Lieberman, and Kerry/Edwards presidential campaigns.

Read full article here:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7727

The Creation of the Religious Left

“When people reflect on the Christian church they generally picture a fellowship of believers whose focus is on *spiritual growth*, *spreading the faith*, and *good works*. These were the church’s primary goals until the last few decades. There is a wide gulf, however, between yesterday’s goals and today’s agenda. The American mainline churches the most prominent of which are the *United Methodists*, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopalians, the American Baptists, many Catholic leaders and orders, and the Lutheran Church in America - have realigned their priorities in a frighteningly *political* direction.”

“A growing percentage of Christian leadership has abandoned its role as *spiritual shepherd* because it no longer considers humanity’s *spiritual welfare* its greatest concern. A great many bishops have rejected *winning souls* in favor of *influencing political issues*. Church bureaucracy now neglects traditional mission in favor of *lobbying for political causes*. In fact, certain sectors of the church now make it their primary business to manufacture, widely distribute, and finance a radical agenda by which they hope *to save the world*. In doing so, they have created the *Religious Left*.”
http://cmpage.org/betrayal/chapt1.html

Walter Rauschenbusch - was a Christian theologian and Baptist pastor (Convert from German Luthern). He was a key figure in the Social Gospel movement which flourished in the United States during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Plus

Rev. Harry F. Ward - the “Red” Dean of Union Theological Seminary - NYC

“In 1929, when Kornfeder was in Moscow, he heard **Harry F. Ward** and his work discussed in the Anglo-American Secretariat, where Ward was portrayed as the architect of the methods by which churches could he infiltrated (”of Communists and fellow travelers working inside the churches, giving themselves the coloring of religious reformers and of getting the church in the social side, away from spiritualism”).”

“In fact, when one studies the methods of the Methodist Federation, I wonder who learned from whom, whether it was Harry F. Ward who learned from Stalin or whether Stalin learned from Harry Wand.”

Plus

Abyssinian Baptist Church - New York

Adam Clayton Powell, Sr. - preached the Gospel of **Social Justice** as pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church

Plus

Howard Thurman and Martin Luther King

Plus

Bonhoeffer in Harlem - “Deeply interested in **ecumenism**, he was appointed by the World Alliance for Promoting International Friendship through the Churches (a forerunner of the **World Council of Churches**) as one of its three European youth secretaries. “

“Rejecting the objective unalterable moral standards of the Bible, Bonhoeffer proclaimed a situational ethics — that right and wrong are determined solely by the “loving obligations of the moment” “

Plus

Charles A. Briggs - popularized German biblical criticism in the United States, first as a professor at Union and then as its president.
- an important early leader of the Modernist movement.

Plus

Dr. James H. Cone – Charles A. Briggs Distinguished Professor of Systematic Theology at Union Theological Seminary – Founder of Black Liberation Theology”

Plus

Martin Niemöller - “In 1961, he became president of the **World Council of Churches**.[9] He earned the **Lenin** Peace Prize in 1966.”
“ He met with Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam War and was a committed campaigner for nuclear disarmament.”

Plus

Reinhold Niebuhr - “Christian ethicist”, “Starting as a leftist minister in the 1920s indebted to theological liberalism, he shifted to the new Neo-Orthodox theology in the 1930s, ....”
“....and created the theo-philosophical perspective known as Christian realism.”

“During the 1930s, Niebuhr was a prominent leader of the militant faction of the Socialist Party of America, although he disliked die-hard Marxists by calling their beliefs a religion and a thin one at that.[23] In 1941, he cofounded the Union for Democratic Action, a group with a strongly militarily interventionist, internationalist foreign policy and a pro-union, liberal domestic policy, and was the group’s sole president until its transformation into the Americans for Democratic Action in 1947.[24]”

Plus

Rev. Jeremiah Wright - G** D**n America . Your Christianity is not necessarily our Christianity.

“”Obama was steeped in Islam but knew nothing about Christianity,” Klein says.”

“Klein asked Wright if he converted Obama from being a Muslim into a Christian.”

“He said, I don’t know about that. but I can tell you that I made it easy for him to come to an understanding of who Jesus Christ is and not feel that he was turning his back on his Islamic friends and his Islamic traditions and his understanding of Islam,” Klein says.”

“The second area was Obama’s political philosophy. Wright introduced Obama to Black Liberation theology.”

Plus

President Barrack Hussein Obama - Received more than just “Dreams From My Father”, and his socialist mother, or his communist grandparents, or Communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis, or racist Black Liberationist Rev. Jeremiah Wright

Plus

Union Theological Seminary - “The seminary was founded in 1836 under the Presbyterian Church,[3] and is affiliated with nearby **Columbia University**. In the 20th century, Union was world renowned as a center of **liberal Christianity and neo-orthodoxy**, in addition to being the birthplace of the **Black Liberation Theology**, **Womanist Theology** and **Mujerista Theology** movements.”

Equals:

Anti-colonial - Islamic - Black Liberationist - CommUnitarian President Barack Hussein Obama - A man of “diversity” out for those struggling on the “margins” of life. A change agent for The New World Order.


39 posted on 11/09/2012 11:26:03 AM PST by haffast
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To: NKP_Vet
Finally, there is a serious question whether non-practicing Catholics should be considered Catholic.

Problem is, many of us Catholics born after Vatican II were never taught that failure to practice your faith on a regular basis (attend Mass, take the sacraments) was even a sin. I never knew any of this until I did my research in college. We essentially were taught next to nothing so it's hardly surprising that today's "Catholics" are no different than everybody else and fail to be the "salt of the earth" that we are supposed to be. Sadly the rise of things like Roe vs. Wade has coincided with a spineless, post Vatican II mentality. If we Catholics as a voting bloc retained any moral backbone, we wouldn't even THINK about supporting the Democrats and their immoral platform.
40 posted on 11/09/2012 11:28:44 AM PST by ShovelPenguin
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To: NKP_Vet

The democrat party has not always been the party of abortion and sodomite “marriage”.

Thank the Kennedy’s for changing it in America, starting in the late 60s, in a blatant attempt to get the bra-burner’s vote. The “sexual revolution” is what caused the democrat party to lose it’s soul.


41 posted on 11/09/2012 11:31:47 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

50% = bishops were effective?!

I disagree.


42 posted on 11/09/2012 11:33:21 AM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: NKP_Vet
You express a common view and a quite understandable one...but (always) is that the official view of the Catholic church?
A bishop can write a letter or urge his parishioners one way or another but he too is simply offering personal opinion unless he is authorized to speak for the entire Catholic church and this he cannot do.

With high birth rates and continued immigration, legal and otherwise, would not the trend be for the American Catholic Church to become the Latino American Catholic Church?

And with the majority Latino American Catholics willing, indeed anxious, to support pro abort leaders then in time there is going to be a church membership that largely reflects the secular opinions on one side and the minority that support the official Catholic teaching on the other.

“The dollar means more to most bishops than following the word of God.”

But these bishops don't operate in a vacuum. They aren't elected by the membership, They're appointed and can be removed.

You're in a tough position, my friend, very tough.

43 posted on 11/09/2012 11:40:07 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Campion
There isn't much to communicate.

The Catholic vote is what it is, what it has always been, and what it will remain to be in the future.

44 posted on 11/09/2012 11:43:55 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ShovelPenguin

The Catholic Church has very poor at Catechist(perperly teaching the faith). That’s a fact. It’s something the Church knows it needs to improve on. Once again, thank the liberals who have invaded the Church for the last 40 years for allowing this to happen. But with that said, everyone should take it upon himself to learn his faith. Never depend on the clergy to teach you what you need to find out for yourself. You will find most priests steering away from social doctrine issues like abortion. It is hardly ever mentioned in homilies. I have had great priests who were very conservative and would tell you you can’t vote for a pro-abortion politician. I have had them rant and rave over the issue of homosexual marriage. But they are far and few between. Most now do not want to “run off anyone” so they never preach abortion abortion and other controversial subjects. In my opinion they have done and are doing a grave injustice to the Church. Yes it’s up to the laity to know their faith, but the clergy are supposed to be leading their flock, not the other way around.


45 posted on 11/09/2012 11:49:05 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: count-your-change

“A bishop can write a letter or urge his parishioners one way or another but he too is simply offering personal opinion unless he is authorized to speak for the entire Catholic church and this he cannot do”

A bishop is representing the Pope, so what the bishop says should be representative of the entire church. If not, he’s going to get in a lot of trouble and will not be a bishop every long.


46 posted on 11/09/2012 11:52:17 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
With all that being said,
““Catholics” who support democrat politicians know the truth and know what they are doing is wrong. They need to get out of the Catholic Church if they can’t abide by the teachings of the Church. It’s that simple.”

But they aren't going to get out of the church, they aren't going to be excommunicated, they aren't going to vote for rich white guys and they aren't going to be a minority soon.
It is that simple.

47 posted on 11/09/2012 11:53:55 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: haffast

“CATHOLICS FOR OBAMA (CFO)”

Renegade fringe “catholic” group not in communion with Rome.


48 posted on 11/09/2012 11:55:56 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: count-your-change

You apparently have not read anything that has been discussed.
If you support a pro-abortion politician you have forfeited the right to call yourself a Catholic. That’s fact. Look it up. These “Catholics” you refer to never attend Mass. They are not practicing Catholics. Another fact. You can’t be a “practicing Catholic” and support murdering a baby!!

Why is that so hard for some to understand.


49 posted on 11/09/2012 12:00:25 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: Campion
There will be no shortage of good and sufficient reasons. So the occasional Mass attendee will remain that “good” Catholic.

There is already a two (or more) tier Catholic church. One, the traditional, strict and more white than not tier and the direct opposite as a second tier.
The first is or will soon be a minority.

50 posted on 11/09/2012 12:23:08 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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