HOW FAR ARE WE WILLING TO GO? I SAY, LETS JUMP OFF THE CLIFF!

Cooking With Chef Carlo ^ | Carlo3b, Dad, Chef, Author

[Yaelle]

How can you name a guy so impotent Boner?

[carlo3b]

I never though I would say this, but I think NOW is the time to bale on the markets, and buy Gold and Silver, or other metals like Copper and Brass.. Those are solid, and the Fed will react by printing MORE AND MORE worthless dollars..

Inflation will spiral out of control if we don’t stop borrowing and spending by increasing the Debt.. However, if we shut it down, the dollar will get powerful in a short time..

[GraceG]

Time to call our sons daughters and their cousins to come live near the home place - a network of family.

Sign them all up for EBT and SNAP and use those cradds to stock up on storable food and other items that can be bartered!!!!

[paratrooper82]

“I don’t think we should hold the House back, instead it should keep submitting bills that uphold the job they have taken, and keep screaming that it’s the Senate that won’t bring anything up for a vote, etc.”

Won't work with lap-dog old media shilling for the liberals.

The House can put up and vote on bills to repeal Obamaycare and lower taxes and let the Senate pass them, or nothing gets through the House of Representatives period! You cannot negotiate with liberals, they will have to be dealt with by force!

[randita]

The math doesn’t add up. Our current fiscal path is unsustainable. I don’t think we need to do anything drastic as that would take down a lot of the innocent (Romney voters) hard. It’s coming down. We need to be patient and do what we can to take care of our own.

If we take a huge haircut on our personal assets, that will put us in a more challenging position to help our families survive a severe downturn.

I don’t support a hard line stance now. There will be time for that later, if necessary.

[sanjuanbob]

However, if we shut it down, the dollar will get powerful in a short time..

We won’t have a powerful dollar with 25% unemployment.

[FreedomNotSafety]

I do not understand the “cliff” very well. Is it a one year deal? As I understand it the Bush tax cuts expire, the AMT rolls out in full force and there automatic spending cuts.

My questions are how long does it all last? What happens the next year and the following years?

How deep are the cuts in real terms not budget terms?

I may be willing to jump if it takes a big permanent bite out of spending.

[Maggie34]

Maybe the states hold a lot of influence over the next 45 days. Is this an option?

Withold the electorate votes of 3 Republican governors of swing states that went to Obama. This may motivate Congress and the President to negotiate acceptable deals to our liking.

Per the electoral site (link below)…states face no legal penalty for failure to comply with Dec 26th date to certify and send the electoral votes to Congress.

January 6, 2013 - The Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes and no Presidential candidate wins 270 (because VA, Wisc, and OH governors do not certify the electoral votes. This would leave Obama with only 262 votes.)

The House of Representatives (12th Amendment) would elect the President by majority vote with each state having one vote.

Source: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/key-dates.html

[no-to-illegals]

with lap-dog old media shilling for the liberals.

Folks our choices are limited to slim and none. Slim just took the last train out of town. We have to have a plan where we do not get the blame. I'm a Conservative, and betting you (all of you) are Conservative too. We get the blame no matter what. Vote Present and that removes the blame from us. Please if am wrong, tell me.

[no-to-illegals]

The situation is this. We can continue to borrow and crash. We are gonna crash, just a matter of when. Or we can give it to the dems, the media, and their voters. They will raise the debt, raise taxes, and it all goes BOOM. It is so far down the road, BOOM is only a matter of time. We (Conservatives) have taken the blame for all the ills. Let the other side crash it. Why do we have to take the blame? They can’t blame it on us if our Conservative Representatives vote Present. Also shows America where the Conservatives are.

[FreedomNotSafety]

I understand the situation. The “cliff” is an actual law not a situation. If the house does nothing what exactly happens with taxes and spending in the next fiscal year?

[RckyRaCoCo]

What is the downside for democrats regarding the "fiscal cliff"? Sounds like everything they've ever wanted...huge tax increases and gutting the military. To what extent are the cuts to entitlement/giveaway programs?

The dem sweethearts(Social Security and Medicaid)are exempt, medicare cuts are limited to 2%, the tax increases are immediate, the cuts(other than probably military)are spread out over 10 years(and Charlie Brown knows what this means, they'll never happen).

Besides, any negative effect on the economy will be blamed on the republican controlled House by the media...that and Obama no longer worries about elections...so what's not to like?

The only downside I see is if the dems would have taken the House...then they would have owned it.

If there is one thing that should have been learned from this election...perception is more relevant than reality...and perception is still controlled(80%+)by a leftist media.

Frankly I don't care one way or the other...as far as I'm concerned the whole thing went off the cliff years ago...the consequences just haven't been felt...yet.

[paratrooper82]

Voting “present” gives the liberals every thing they want, which will also give them credit for preventing the US from going over the fiscal cliff. Again, old media will shill for the liberals, e.g. “look how hard Obama worked across the isle to get a deal with the Republicans.” This approach will not work, since the debt will go from 16 trillion to 26 trillion “Republicans fault, e.g. Bush did it!”

The only option is for the Republicans (will take guts) to simply refuse to allow a single bill to come out of the US House of Representatives without first repealing Obamaycare, lowering taxes, and other economy supporting Bills. This would put the liberals in a catch 22 position, allow the government to default on its debt, or negotiate with the Republicans to pass their Bills.

Either way, the Republicans have nothing to lose, the liberals have EVERY THING TO LOSE. If the liberals allow the US to go off the fiscal cliff they have effectively hung the economy around their necks for many many years to come! The only other option is to give the Republicans what they want, they hold the purse strings for the US government!

[ZirconEncrustedTweezers]

“About the one year anniversary of tumbling over and assuming the correct cuts are made I expect the takers will realize the problems they created and will educate themselves.”

I wouldn’t bet the farm on that...

[no-to-illegals]

Taxes go up. Remember obamacare, taxes are contained in that law. Give the liberals their wet dream is the only way out. Let the liberals have their way. Let them crash it. I hate to say this but there is no way out. We tried. We lost. I don't want the blame when this country goes over the cliff, and Conservatives will be blamed when we go over the cliff. They hold the Senate, the White House, and the Media. Three out of four. Compromise? ... Compromise to a democrat and their minions is we cave. Vote Present. Let them crash it. Remember President Hoover?

[tanknetter]

There’s an old saying that pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered.

Seems to fit with the taker society we now live in. The story of the goose that laid the golden egg too ...

[carlo3b]

Randita, I hear you, and I know what I am suggesting is very risky, or at least a strong lesson in fiscal discipline..

I also learned to read a P&L statement, and I have, on a much smaller basis, had taken over failing businesses that I knew would revive if someone would just stop wasting money, because the prior owner was unwilling to cut and fire, change or fall..

We have a bad economy we all agree, but it can and will get a whole lot worse if someone or something doesn’t change, and fire.. There comes a time when going back no is longer an option, because we are under water, like a bad mortgage.. We really owe $156 Trillon, not $16T when we factor in all future encumbrances..

I’m warning all of us, that today is a lot better than tomorrow because we are borrowing more money every day.. We are spending more every day, than we were today.. Today is the best day we will ever have in the future..

Those who say, and I am not suggesting that you are, we can’t take the hit that the SHUT DOWN option will hurt everyone, I say don’t act like a Frog in the boiling water.. Jump Out Now, before you surely will die.. I’ll take the pain if I know it will get better, other than sure death...

[no-to-illegals]

I hear you, FRiend. If the democrats prevent us from going over the cliff, we survive anyway. Right? I'm betting the democrats will go crazy. Let ‘em drive. I know the cliff is there, but if I'm going over, I don't want the blame. So I am stepping out of the driver's seat.

[carlo3b]

What is the downside for democrats regarding the "fiscal cliff"? Sounds like everything they've ever wanted...huge tax increases and gutting the military. To what extent are the cuts to entitlement/giveaway programs?

That is not true..

We hold the House for now.. We will loose it in three cycles, with the plans in place to steal every election from now on.. NOTHING gets passed, no laws Nada, if the GOP House doesn't pass it.. Everything stops..

[randita]

There comes a time when going back no is longer an option, because we are under water, like a bad mortgage.

We reached that point some years ago. It's like watching a wreck in super slow motion. Even if Romney were elected, it wouldn't change the downward spiral, but it might have slowed it. Romney was promising to get the economy moving again, but we're beyond the point where a decently growing economy will staunch the bleeding.

We need an immediate 40-50% cut in the federal budget just to balance the budget from year to year (not taking into account the debt and unfunded liabilities) and that's NEVER going to happen. It would be political suicide for any candidate to tell the truth to the electorate.

I'm going to salt money away while I still have a chance. That means I won't be a big time consumer, but I won't give up my income.

Read market-ticker.org today. Denninger has it right.