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Gun Owners May Be In For An ‘Interesting’ Four Years
Ammoland ^ | 7 November, 2012 | Philip Van Cleave

Posted on 11/07/2012 4:12:42 PM PST by marktwain

Covington VA --(Ammoland.com)- With the elections over now, gun owners are heading into what could be troubled waters.

I don’t have a crystal ball, so were we are headed I can’t say for certain.

However, based on the Obama Administration’s past performance and President Obama’s statements made during the debates, I will point out some of my concerns.

FUTURE FOR FEDERAL GUN-CONTROL **LAWS** First, with the Republicans maintaining control of the House and enough of the Senate to prevent things being ramrodded through, I don’t see gun control, including an “assault weapon” ban, making it into law during the next two years.

(There will be another election in two years that could change things, so that is as far as one can look for now).

That is good news for gun owners because during the debates with Romney, President Obama hinted at wanting to do something with “assault weapons.” Obama also brought up “inexpensive handguns,” while speaking about the very high murder rate in America’s Gun-Control Heaven, Chicago.

I will not be surprised if Obama now starts to talk about gun control with every shooting that gets national attention. He also has Chicago’s crime rate as an excuse to bring the subject up regularly.

While I think Congress will not vote for new gun control laws, we will need to keep a very, very close eye on Congress nonetheless.

FUTURE FOR MORE FEDERAL GUN CONTROL THROUGH OTHER MEANS One of the biggest threats for more gun control would be items that “fall under the radar,” which is what Obama told the Brady Campaign he was working on last year. Here is a list of things that the President could do without needing approval from Congress:

* Use BATFE and the Justice Department to run more staged projects like “Fast and Furious,” that make it look like lax gun control laws in the U.S. are causing mayhem and then taking “actions” to “fix” the problem. Most of the media would be a willing accomplice in such an endeavor as they were with Fast and Furious.

* Use BATFE to ban a variety of guns from import by making sure they don’t fit a changing “sporting requirement” standard, with AKs being the first to go

* Use BATFE to require reporting of sales of certain firearms by gun stores, a de facto registration

* Use BATFE to make certain firearms into Class III weapons that require a tax stamp and registration – for example shotguns that only have a pistol-grip for a stock

* Use BATFE to block import of military surplus ammunition

* Sign various U.N. treaties that affect our right to keep and bear arms. We will need the Senate (and maybe the courts) to block them

GUN CONTROL THROUGH THE SUPREME COURT AND LOWER COURTS Another danger is that there will be more Supreme Court appointments. Two anti-rights judges were appointed during Obama’s last term – Judge Kagan and the self-described “wise latina” Judge Sotomayor. There is only a one-vote pro-rights margin currently, and that could be wiped out easily. Don’t count on the Senate to save the day – they didn’t with the last two appointments.

As more and more appointments are made to lower courts, I don’t expect them to be pro-rights, either. The antis will be using courts more and more often to get what they can’t get through the Legislative branch.

About: Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right. Visit: www.vcdl.org


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndterm; banglist; constitution; guncontrol
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I think Philip Van Cleve has it just right. This is how it will go.
1 posted on 11/07/2012 4:12:45 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I plan on making several purchases over the next couple months.


2 posted on 11/07/2012 4:17:22 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: marktwain

In an unfortunate turn of events, I lost all of my firearms last week in a tragic boating accident. They all fell to the bottom of the lake and recovery is out of the question. Thank heavens these laws will no longer apply to my, once, extensive and all encompassing collection of firearms.


3 posted on 11/07/2012 4:18:03 PM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: marktwain

What I want to know is, who will stand and fight them (violently) if it comes to it?

Taking away my right to self-defense, and make no mistake that’s exactly how I see it, is the ONE red line I would never except. And if that means my life, so be it.


4 posted on 11/07/2012 4:19:13 PM PST by tickedoffnow (No more...)
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To: RobertClark

Bummer. I hate when that happens. ;0


5 posted on 11/07/2012 4:21:19 PM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: RobertClark

What? You Too??? My dad was moving all of our guns and ammunition across the Hood Canal and damned if the boat sprang a leak. Lost it all in about 2300 feet of water. What with all those rocky crags and fissure down there I doubt they’d find anything.


6 posted on 11/07/2012 4:25:00 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral)
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To: marktwain

Article II will not survive an Obama-appointed Supreme Court.


7 posted on 11/07/2012 4:25:24 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: marktwain

Second amendment proponents have scored critical victories in the supreme court and in countless state and local level elections. We have packed the House of Representatives with pro-second amendment representatives and we are still the majority in that house. We have been stockpiling weapons and ammunition and reloading components. We have spent the past 18 years preparing for this fight. Don’t be afraid of these drug addicted fagots and freaks. Bring it you mother*****rs.


8 posted on 11/07/2012 4:26:01 PM PST by RC one (Akin/Mourdock-2016)
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To: RobertClark

Myself, I’m avoiding any body of water larger than a bathtub like a vampire avoids Holy Water.


9 posted on 11/07/2012 4:27:17 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: tickedoffnow

I’ve heard of the 3%’rs but I’m a bit skeptical. What’s needed are organized gun owners that are neighborhood based all over the country. For example. Assume Feds move in to try to confiscate firearms from a gun owner...a beacon could go out(2 way radio?) that would effectively “summon” other neighborhood gun owners to show up and surround the Feds who are trying to surround said gun owners home. Fanciful? Weird? Doable? We have to start somewhere.


10 posted on 11/07/2012 4:35:24 PM PST by MachIV
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To: marktwain

F.M.C.D.H.

11 posted on 11/07/2012 4:36:45 PM PST by jaz.357 ( *Luke 6:43-45* Twas Ever Thus!)
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To: MachIV

It would be a start. I’ll check out the “3%””.


12 posted on 11/07/2012 4:38:09 PM PST by tickedoffnow (No more...)
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I bought a Mossberg 12Ga pump this morning. 5 guys in front of me when I showed up, 3 guys behind me when I was escorted to the checkout with my new pump. 3 employees working the counter when there is typically 1.


13 posted on 11/07/2012 4:38:51 PM PST by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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To: marktwain

His firewall was Ohio. Ours is the House of Representatives. I don’t think he’ll be able to get anything significant passed with regard to the 2nd Amendment.

SnakeDoc


14 posted on 11/07/2012 4:38:58 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Texas survived one Obama term, and we'll survive another. The rest of you are screwed.)
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*


15 posted on 11/07/2012 4:39:45 PM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: tickedoffnow

Can’t answer that question on this forum.


16 posted on 11/07/2012 4:41:40 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: marktwain
Heck, all it will take is a new Gun Control Czar. Who's gonna stop him? Weepy? Blinky?

The Supreme Court?

17 posted on 11/07/2012 4:45:48 PM PST by COBOL2Java (The GOP-e said "Beat a Marxist with a Liberal!" What a colossal blunder.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Treaties don’t require the House. Conveniently, there’s a UN Arms Control treaty that’s up for approval...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2956738/posts


18 posted on 11/07/2012 4:47:43 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: SkyDancer

The coincidental rise in unfortunate events resulting in lost firearms is simply amazing. It happened to three of my friends as well. I think a bizarre expansion of the Bermuda Triangle may be occurring in bodies of water all over the United States. I think we could be witnessing what is just the beginning of a new phenomenon. Quantum physicists may need to be called in to assist in developing a theory. I’m not a scientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night (well, a Motel 6 - I couldn’t afford a Holiday Inn after paying my taxes this quarter).


19 posted on 11/07/2012 4:48:50 PM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: Elsiejay

“Article II will not survive an Obama-appointed Supreme Court.”

What the hell is “Article II”? This thread among others on FR looks like a bunch of idiots responding.


20 posted on 11/07/2012 4:48:59 PM PST by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: SnakeDoctor

He won’t try going through the house. He’ll try something “under the radar.” I don’t believe that he just gave up just because of the Fast and Furious screwup. No telling what kind of schemes are brewing.


21 posted on 11/07/2012 4:50:28 PM PST by paint_your_wagon
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To: marktwain
"FUTURE FOR FEDERAL GUN-CONTROL **LAWS** First, with the Republicans maintaining control of the House and enough of the Senate to prevent things being ramrodded through, I don’t see gun control, including an “assault weapon” ban, making it into law during the next two years."

I got two words for ya: "U" & "N"...

22 posted on 11/07/2012 4:54:01 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: tickedoffnow

I cannot find a reason to answer your question on an open and public forum - it’s not exactly a soup question.


23 posted on 11/07/2012 4:54:36 PM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: SkyDancer; RobertClark

Any number of guns is useless without the will to kill. Look them right in the eye and pull that trigger.


24 posted on 11/07/2012 4:57:33 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: RobertClark

“I lost all of my firearms last week in a tragic boating accident. They all fell to the bottom of the lake and recovery is out of the question. “

So, what you’re saying in your cutsie sort of way is that we can count you out from manning up and standing up to be counted. Gotcha. My weapons didn’t fall anywhere. They are right here ready to be used as needed. Count me in.


25 posted on 11/07/2012 4:58:43 PM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: CodeToad

Right Answer!!!
When one talks about loosing their guns overboard or burying them, they should realize it is time to clean them, oil them and load them. Use them when they come to your door.
The government doesn’t have enough people to enforce any gun control laws if enough Americans stand up to them. Do you think those TSA types or those recent graduates from that FEMA/DHS course will have the the stones to go to more than two houses when the people in those house fight back? I don’t think they will go to the second house. Stand up and get ready!!


26 posted on 11/07/2012 5:22:24 PM PST by rustyboots
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To: CodeToad

             

27 posted on 11/07/2012 5:27:32 PM PST by tomkat ( <shrug>)
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To: MachIV
There's a name for the type of organization you envisage: it's called a "militia".

I've had exactly the same thoughts, but I think the states will have to take the lead here to protect firearms dealers.

What I mean is this: with a variation on CC, a modicum of training (or prior military service) gets you enrolled in the state militia. A gun dealer goes through a similar process to become an official state militia armorer. If the FFL is pulled without cause, the armorer orders from the state, which places his orders for him, and continues to sell to state militia members.

I think this arrangement is constitutionally untouchable, probably even if Class III firearms were included.

In reality, it would depend on the state's willingness to go after BATFE agents operating in its jurisdiction.

I don't think either Texas or Arizona would have problems with that at this point.

28 posted on 11/07/2012 5:50:18 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: marktwain

I hear the price of ammo just doubled.


29 posted on 11/07/2012 7:10:38 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: caver

“What the hell is “Article II”? “

Yes,I am subject to a common failing, making an error. So very sorry.

As no doubt you have been able to surmise, given the context, I meant to refer to Amendment II, Bill of Rights.


30 posted on 11/07/2012 8:38:16 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: CodeToad

No, I think he is saying that if the Feds come for his guns, they won’t be found..... in a cute-sie sort of way. ;-)


31 posted on 11/07/2012 10:03:29 PM PST by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: marktwain

Americans own over 275 MILLION guns
I’m just saying...........


32 posted on 11/07/2012 10:41:53 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: RobertClark
If one has to hide them and not use them because they are illegal to process. If one has to worry about being seen with them or transporting them.

We have loss.

33 posted on 11/08/2012 4:01:46 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
34 posted on 11/08/2012 5:17:25 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Pining_4_TX

“:No, I think he is saying that if the Feds come for his guns, they won’t be found”

Anyone thinking those coming for guns would find any excuse, cutsie or not, acceptable completely misses the intent on a gun grab. They would hog tie his ass so fast and throw him in the back of the truck with prejudice to make his silly head spin. Nothing less than “Here they are.” will do. Gun owners had better be ready to take the fight to them.


35 posted on 11/08/2012 9:03:54 AM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: Joe Brower

Hey Joe... Like the Gadsden flag you’re flying but I have a question “shouldn’t the snake be facing the other (left) direction?”


36 posted on 11/08/2012 9:50:04 AM PST by Malios
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To: pierrem15

Are you really advocating to put people on lists in order to purchase firearms? That is EXACTLY what they want.


37 posted on 11/08/2012 10:11:52 AM PST by wastedyears (I don't want to live on this planet anymore.)
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To: Malios
You know, in over twelve years on FR with that image in my signature, you're the first person to point that out.

Hmmm...

38 posted on 11/08/2012 10:41:44 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: bigheadfred
Any number of guns is useless without the will to kill. Look them right in the eye and pull that trigger.

Shoot the blue helmets first.


39 posted on 11/08/2012 10:50:34 AM PST by paulcissa (The first requirement of Liberalism is to stand on your head and tell the world they're upside down)
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To: tickedoffnow

It won’t come to that. They’re not THAT stupid.

Instead, they’ll pursue a dual strategy of “starvation” and “death by a thousand cuts”.

The Obama can order the BATFE to slow, stall, or stop its facilitation of the arms business. Increase inspections, slow paperwork processing, or just flat out refuse to approve anything needing their approval. NICS stops, FFLs fold up, imports halt ... you can buy whatever you want, but nobody can sell to you retail. Glock, Sig, FN, Wolf, etc - no more imports. I’ve already seen waiting periods take down good stores because the customer base dried up; imagine all “instant” checks failing to process, everyone having to wait 3-5 days. Consider every mandated FFL renewal going unprocessed; businesses expire for lack of one paper.
Sure, you can keep what you have, but no resupply of consumables (ammo), no repairs, nothing new. Private sales still legal, but prices increase 10-100x (see the legal machine gun market).

No door-to-door confiscations, but huge increase in hassling. Federal agencies directed, and other jurisdictions encouraged, to assume all guns contraband until proven otherwise. NY and other states start their gun laws with “all firearms are illegal” then list exemptions; as LEOs are not expected to understand the nuance of laws, just throw anyone found with a gun into a cage and let the courts sort it out.

And of the courts, the Obama just lets cases pile on. Long delays, high costs, frequent rulings in his favor, years before the core problems percolate up to an already-bought Supreme Court.

Thanks, Congress, for handing the 2nd Amendment to a hostile Executive Branch.


40 posted on 11/08/2012 11:13:50 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: wastedyears
I'm simply proposing some way for states to get around the Feds, and I think having them start to organize their militias at the moment is probably a good idea.

If there is a better and more effective way than this to get around the BATFE and the FFL requirement, let me know.

41 posted on 11/08/2012 11:58:14 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: ctdonath2
The background check requirement can be defeated by having a state count a renewed DL as a background check.

The real issue, as you noted, is the FFL problem and interstate shipment of ammo and firearms.

I think the only legal solution to that issue is having the states start creating a semi-organized militia-- if you have the equivalent of CCW training, you can get what you want from a state armorer.

The state buys the firearms and sells them to you as a militia member, possibly using existing FFL holders as the base of armorers.

Of course, when the BATFE swoops in they'll have to be stopped by state or local law enforcement. Or the local militia.

42 posted on 11/08/2012 12:06:54 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: pierrem15

Texas could secede. We have better technology than the civil war era. The message WILL get out.


43 posted on 11/08/2012 1:22:21 PM PST by wastedyears (I don't want to live on this planet anymore.)
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To: pierrem15

Better on that: the state can then authorize members to buy new (yes, post-’86) machine guns for themselves. It’s a loophole in 922(o).

(I have a theory some very high politicians own, themselves, new machine guns. It’s legal with the right connections, which they keep very quiet.)


44 posted on 11/08/2012 3:36:46 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ctdonath2
Better on that: the state can then authorize members to buy new (yes, post-’86) machine guns for themselves. It’s a loophole in 922(o).

Yep-- any official member of a state militia can be equipped with automatic weapons.

45 posted on 11/08/2012 6:50:41 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: paulcissa; GeronL; SunkenCiv; Lazamataz; TheOldLady; Daffynition; null and void; xzins; ...
Shoot the blue helmets first.

Shoot the blue helmets. I didn't vote for Romney.

I sure dinna vote for the halfrican.

My son did an incredibly stupid thing on Tuesday night. So yesterday wasn't good.

Today we got word my wifes father died. She is already fighting with the state, unemployment, and getting her (God let it be) new business license. And my son. And me. (we're broke)

So my SIL gets word of the FIL's death and heads for the hunting camp where my BIL is. Rolls her truck and dies. 2 dead today. Yay for us.

Aren't ya proud of me Mod? I got this whole thing in without too much fuss. Must be the new me.

46 posted on 11/08/2012 7:22:12 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

Damn.


47 posted on 11/08/2012 7:24:45 PM PST by null and void (Day 1388 of the Obama hostage crisis - Barack Hussein Obama an enemy BOTH foreign AND domestic)
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To: driftdiver

I always wanted a 22 pistol and Academy has the Sig Sauer “non-threaded” for 329.00 and the “threaded” for 369.00 or so.

Probably within the next 2 weeks.


48 posted on 11/08/2012 7:30:04 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/?)
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To: jaz.357

Interesting that you post that image considering it was Charlton Heston himself that helped get passed the 1968 Gun Control Act that forbis under 21 getting handguns, outlawed interstate gun sales, mail order gun sales, etc. Don’t take my word for it; google Heston and the 1968 GCA along with the NRA. They got it passed but haven’t done a thing to get it repealed.


49 posted on 11/08/2012 7:31:45 PM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: bigheadfred

Oh my, sorry to hear that.


50 posted on 11/08/2012 7:36:16 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/?)
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