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Two Americas : the country is no longer culturally cohesive.
National Review Online ^ | November 7, 2012 | Michael Barone

Posted on 11/07/2012 9:10:56 AM PST by teflon9

But whether Barack Obama is elected to a second term or Mitt Romney is elected the 45th president, the contours of their support during this fiercely fought campaign show that we live in two Americas.

The culturally cohesive America of the 1950s that some of us remember, usually glossing over racial segregation and the civil-rights movement, is no longer with us and hasn’t been for some time.

Niche media has replaced universal media.

One America listens to Rush Limbaugh, the other to NPR. Each America has its favorite cable news channel. As for entertainment, Americans have 100-plus cable channels to choose from, and the Internet provides many more options

We tend to choose the America that is culturally congenial. Most people in the San Francisco Bay area wouldn’t consider living in the Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex, even for much better money. Most metroplexers would never relocate to the Bay Area.

There are plenty of smart and creative and successful people in both Americas. But they don’t like to mix with each other these days.

One America tends to be traditionally religious, personally charitable, appreciative of entrepreneurs, and suspicious of government. The other tends to be secular or only mildly religious, less charitable, skeptical of business, and supportive of government as an instrument to advance liberal causes.

The more conservative America tends to be relatively cohesive. Evangelical Protestants and white Catholics make common cause ... Southern or northern accents don’t much matter.

That’s typical of the Republican party, which has always had core support from people who are seen as typical Americans but are not by themselves a majority in our always diverse country.

The more liberal America tends to be diverse. Like Obama’s 2008 coalition, it includes many at the top and at the bottom of the economic ladder.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: disunity; division; polarization; separatism
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Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?
1 posted on 11/07/2012 9:11:00 AM PST by teflon9
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To: teflon9

I think he has stumbled upon the Dems’ Achilles Heel. That is one rag-tag mess of a coalition they are running with. It has to pull apart at the seams at some point. Unions vs. Enviroweenies, Blacks vs. Hispanics, etc. Will be interesting to watch Barry tap-dance to try and keep them all together.


2 posted on 11/07/2012 9:15:20 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: teflon9
Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?

If I had a choice, the latter. You can't fix stupid.

3 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:07 AM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: teflon9

Isn’t Michael Barone the one who predicted a landslide for Romney?

Yeah, like he’s credible...


4 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:22 AM PST by kildak
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To: teflon9

I think the only chance we have of not splitting up is to return to the federalist vision set forth in the pre-New Deal constitution, where most power resides in the States.

Absent that, open conflict is inevitable, in my view.


5 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:27 AM PST by altsehastiin
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To: teflon9

“Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?”

IMO, status quo till the Congressional elections in two years. I don’t have any hope that changes will be any different then.


6 posted on 11/07/2012 9:18:32 AM PST by duckman (I'm part of the group pulling the wagon!)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
I think he has stumbled upon the Dems’ Achilles Heel.

Perhaps Barone fell and hit his head when he stumbled and that's how he came up with the Romney Landslide. Barone's lost all credibility and will be hard-pressed to regain it.

7 posted on 11/07/2012 9:19:18 AM PST by attyatlaw001
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To: teflon9
"Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?"

It actually would be a good thing to go the way of Czechoslovakia. They decided to peacefully divide into two countries and accomplished it without shooting each other.

8 posted on 11/07/2012 9:20:10 AM PST by Truth29
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To: teflon9

This has confirmed my fears that we could very well end up in a new civil war.


9 posted on 11/07/2012 9:22:05 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Truth29

“It actually would be a good thing to go the way of Czechoslovakia. They decided to peacefully divide into two countries and accomplished it without shooting each other.”


If this was Facebook, I’d give that a “like.”


10 posted on 11/07/2012 9:22:18 AM PST by teflon9 (Political campaigns should follow Johnny Mercer's advice--Accentuate the positive.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Good point without a common enemy the Rats will eat themselves its in their nature.


11 posted on 11/07/2012 9:23:51 AM PST by Gasshog
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To: teflon9
"Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?"

We are beyond the point of no return.

12 posted on 11/07/2012 9:24:53 AM PST by Baynative
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To: teflon9

Yes, the Repubs have some issues, but the “problem” is with the electorate, not the party. We have become “a nation of takers” (Google it) and those “takers” voted against the ones they thought were going to take away their sugar. 9M people on SSDI, 48M people on SNAP, countless still milking UE benefits, the fastest growing demographic are “the takers”.

So the cultural divide is really based upon the 47% that get government goodies. There is virtually no way they will vote for a candidate that pledges to address these issues. Peel off a couple of young liberal women with the abortion issue and the Bamster gets elected.

Someone on the NRO twitter feed last night wrote what politician is going to run on getting budget and entitlement issues under control? Only a fool would go back there.

And we know where this all leads, economic stagnation and possible financial catastrophe are in our future.

sschu


13 posted on 11/07/2012 9:25:20 AM PST by schu
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To: Buckeye McFrog
I think he has stumbled upon the Dems’ Achilles Heel. That is one rag-tag mess of a coalition they are running with. It has to pull apart at the seams at some point. Unions vs. Enviroweenies, Blacks vs. Hispanics, etc. Will be interesting to watch Barry tap-dance to try and keep them all together.

One would think so, but that rag-tag coalition doesn't seem to be anywhere near breaking up now, and I don't see it breaking up anytime in the near future.

Among Hispanic Catholic peasants, Black Baptists, and transvestites there appears to be only harmony.

14 posted on 11/07/2012 9:25:45 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: kildak

Isn’t it ODD that some many of these pundits whom had “cred” on predicting, were off? Either they were: shills of disinformation, someone who should have never been listened to anyway, OR fraud was so enormous with the electronic voting counted by another Country, that they were right, but it was stolen with the flip of a switch.


15 posted on 11/07/2012 9:26:40 AM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: kildak

Isn’t it ODD that some many of these pundits whom had “cred” on predicting, were off? Either they were: shills of disinformation, someone who should have never been listened to anyway, OR fraud was so enormous with the electronic voting counted by another Country, that they were right, but it was stolen with the flip of a switch.


16 posted on 11/07/2012 9:26:58 AM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

“I think he has stumbled upon the Dems’ Achilles Heel. That is one rag-tag mess of a coalition they are running with. It has to pull apart at the seams at some point. Unions vs. Enviroweenies, Blacks vs. Hispanics, etc. Will be interesting to watch Barry tap-dance to try and keep them all together.”

And we don’t have such problems? Mormons vs evangelicals. Tea Party vs GOP-e.


17 posted on 11/07/2012 9:27:43 AM PST by ari-freedom
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To: All

sorry for the double post, i did wait after the preview to hit post only once, but my computer tablet is not working well today.


18 posted on 11/07/2012 9:28:42 AM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: machogirl

The boots on the ground do NOT match the “reduced turnout” count.


19 posted on 11/07/2012 9:30:48 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: teflon9

I think it is probably time for an amicable divorce between the “two Americas”. If you look at the Electoral College map, you’ll see that the geography and idealogy line up very well to make this convenient. I’d be willing to leave the blue state I live in.

The “Red States” (How God fearing, Capitalist, Patriotic states ever got to be the “Red” states, I don’t understand), are completely contiguous (except for Alaska, of course). You could travel by car to every Red state, without passing through a Democrat state.

We could give the lefties, a 10 or 20 mile wide stretch on the Candian border, through ND, MT and ID, to connect MN to Washington State and a similar strip of land to on the Mexican border in Arizona (I’m sure AZ would appreciate the illegal alien buffer zone). Then they could travel to all their states without passing through ours.

We could be the friendliest of allies, and I think if we seperated, would actually like each other a lot more.

We can keep the flag, the military, God, Faith, Guns, the Constitution, etc. and all the other great things they hate. They can keep the food stamps, the illegal aliens, same sex (or even inter-species if they want) marriage, Hollywood, Washington DC, etc.

We’ll take half of the 16 trillion dollar debt, and pay our share off in 10 years or so, while their 8 trillion grows to 100 trillion over the same period.


20 posted on 11/07/2012 9:33:25 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: schu

So true


21 posted on 11/07/2012 9:37:22 AM PST by TheCPA
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To: teflon9
The wheat is being separated from the chaff. The chaff is being bundled together for the fire.
The liberals are being packed tightly into the cities, so when the crash hits, they'll have nothing to eat but each other. When the quakes hit, the ocean will consume those that are still left.

After that, the world has 1,000 years of peace on earth. Evey man will sit under and tend to his own vine, and no man will be able to take it away from him.

22 posted on 11/07/2012 9:39:42 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Above My Pay Grade

The Dems and Libs will never go for this. Who would they take from?


23 posted on 11/07/2012 9:41:37 AM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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To: Above My Pay Grade

Are you serious?
Talk about economic suicide. How many of us are willing to sell their house at a loss, quit their job, uproot the family and relocate to God knows what.


24 posted on 11/07/2012 9:43:30 AM PST by fivecatsandadog (Don't let reality ruin your day.)
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To: Above My Pay Grade
The “Red States” (How God fearing, Capitalist, Patriotic states ever got to be the “Red” states, I don’t understand),

It wasn't always that way. I think the MSM sorts got together at some point and decided that it might be harmful if the Dim states continued to be illustrated as 'red' states.

1968 - Nixon in Blue

Looks like it changed in 1992.

25 posted on 11/07/2012 9:45:40 AM PST by Will88
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To: teflon9

Highly doubt we can put it back together. The country was more cohesive in the 1960’s than it is now. And it’s only going to get worse. Both sides might as well be from totally different planets. There is no common ground whatsoever.


26 posted on 11/07/2012 9:45:54 AM PST by chessplayer
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To: kildak
Isn’t Michael Barone the one who predicted a landslide for Romney? Yeah, like he’s credible...

I refuse to bash Barone. He is still the premier voting analyst in America, bar none (little pun there).

Barone had a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the pre-election polls. He said "the fundamentals" were there for a Romney landslide.

And indeed, those fundamentals --the horrible economy primarily-- were there. If this were 30-40 years ago, Obama would've been out on his ass, just like Carter.

But some things have changed in America in the last 30-40 years, much worse than either we, or Michael Barone, realized ... until last night.

27 posted on 11/07/2012 9:45:57 AM PST by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: kildak
Isn’t Michael Barone the one who predicted a landslide for Romney? Yeah, like he’s credible...

I refuse to bash Barone. He is still the premier voting analyst in America, bar none (little pun there).

Barone had a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the pre-election polls. He said "the fundamentals" were there for a Romney landslide.

And indeed, those fundamentals --the horrible economy primarily-- were there. If this were 30-40 years ago, Obama would've been out on his ass, just like Carter.

But some things have changed in America in the last 30-40 years, much worse than either we, or Michael Barone, realized ... until last night.

28 posted on 11/07/2012 9:45:57 AM PST by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: Bishop_Malachi

>>>The Dems and Libs will never go for this. Who would they take from?<<<

I think they’d go for it. In their minds, the only thing keeping them from hedonistic bliss, is us greedy, uptight, bible-thumping, knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing conservatives.

They have no concept of the idea that other people’s money actually comes from (wait for it)... other people. The rude awakening won’t come until after the divorce papers are signed.

We should offer them a sweetheart deal, giving in on almost every disputed piece of territory or other assets. (We can buy them back cheap from them for food, fuel and blankets, when they are cold and starving in a few years).


29 posted on 11/07/2012 9:46:48 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: teflon9
I'd like to physically divide the 2 Americas, then put up a wall so that those on the liberal side can't escape from the hell-hole they're creating and come over to corrupt and ruin our side too. Just a dream...

We've passed the tipping point, where the immoral outnumbers the moral, the pagans the God worshippers, the takers the producers. Decline is inevitable.

Thank-you, George, Ben, Thomas, John, and others who gave us so much. I'm glad you're not here to see what your unique nation and government has become.

30 posted on 11/07/2012 9:47:51 AM PST by mikeus_maximus
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To: kosciusko51
Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?

"If I had a choice, the latter. You can't fix stupid."

Agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment expressed above. America as we knew it is dead. It is time for the two nations to take their separate paths.
31 posted on 11/07/2012 9:49:22 AM PST by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: teflon9

Tribalism/globalism.


32 posted on 11/07/2012 9:49:22 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Trod Upon
Agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment expressed above. America as we knew it is dead. It is time for the two nations to take their separate paths.

The libs will never agree to it. Our side has all the wealth. What would they all live on? A welfare nation with no producers will last a few days at most.
33 posted on 11/07/2012 9:53:21 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Above My Pay Grade; Will88

It changed on Election Night 2000, and willfully so by the Orwellian Newsspeak media with GOPers refusing to repudiate the false label. The irony of Conservatives exclaiming they want to paint America “Red”, well... that’s exactly what we got. Red is Communist.


34 posted on 11/07/2012 9:53:51 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: kildak
When is the last time you accurately predicted the future?

I really didn't see the republican party that showed up and waited in line at chickfila decide to sit at home rather than vote for the future of the nation.

But he is right. The Obama voters I know have a radically different idea of how things work than I do. Our differences are irreconcilable.

35 posted on 11/07/2012 9:55:48 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: ZX12R
The libs will never agree to it. Our side has all the wealth. What would they all live on? A welfare nation with no producers will last a few days at most.

You don't know many liberals. They believe that the government creates wealth and the rich steal too much of it. As far as they are concerned, fewer rich people means more money for them.

36 posted on 11/07/2012 9:58:36 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: fivecatsandadog

I can only speak for one.


37 posted on 11/07/2012 10:00:29 AM PST by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: teflon9

“Can we put Humpty Dumpty back together, or are we headed the way of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia?”

Dissolution. Finally.


38 posted on 11/07/2012 10:05:34 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Turns out that White Horse was just a whitewashed jackass.)
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To: shhrubbery!
I refuse to bash Barone.

Me either. A lot of smart guys just got it wrong. The University of Colorado researchers miscalled the results, too. Last night was the first time they got it wrong.

39 posted on 11/07/2012 10:17:22 AM PST by ishmac (Lady Thatcher:"There are no permanent defeats in politics because there are no permanent victories.)
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To: teflon9
the two Americas ... it doesn't become any more clear then this:

which do you align with? which America do you want to belong?

which do you think the founders envisioned?

40 posted on 11/07/2012 10:18:06 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Biggirl

Too many layers of law enforcement to organize a civil war; however, serious discussions of peaceful secession definitely need to considered. It could be like a big National Divorce.


41 posted on 11/07/2012 10:18:17 AM PST by MachIV
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To: Above My Pay Grade
I think it is probably time for an amicable divorce between the “two Americas”.

Why would the majority of takers allow the makers to leave? Makers are feeding the takers, after all. Nothing short of a civil war (the red states vs. the US Army) will do. The takers are planning to feed on the makers until no more makers are left; then they will turn onto each other - as they always do; history is full of such examples.

42 posted on 11/07/2012 10:25:48 AM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard
Nothing short of a civil war (the red states vs. the US Army) will do.

I was already quietly envisioning this hypothetical before the election.

Would the US Army fire on armed seceders? Of course we all remember the terrible murderous assault upon innocent men, women and children at Ruby Ridge and Waco ... but that was done by the rogue ATF --and in the case of Waco, by Clinton's DOJ (headed by Eric Holder under a figurehead Janet Reno).

I don't believe the US Army would fire, at least not in the near future. However Obama is steadily destroying morale in our military, discouraging enlistment by the kind of soldiers they used to attract. Might not be long before we can easily imagine Obama ordering our military to fire on our own people.

However I think secession movements will be peaceful. Hence Obama will simply send in law enforcement to arrest those who refuse to pay their ObamaTaxes. Off to the gulag with them.

43 posted on 11/07/2012 10:39:38 AM PST by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: Greysard

>>>Why would the majority of takers allow the makers to leave? Makers are feeding the takers, after all<<<

The vast majority of takers don’t see it that way. They think that Government somehow creates this massive pile of wealth and that the makers (they call them “the rich” or the “1%”) are stealing most of this mythical, government, created wealth, leaving the takers with far less than they “deserve”.

They believe that if they get rid of off the “rich” (makers) they will finally get their “fair share”. (Actually, they would get their “FAIR” share, but it would be next to nothing.)

I live in a Democrat state, I know how the takers think.


44 posted on 11/07/2012 10:41:13 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: MachIV

“Too many layers of law enforcement to organize a civil war”


That’s what Bahsar al-Assad thought. Dude has his hands full now.


45 posted on 11/07/2012 11:00:42 AM PST by teflon9 (Political campaigns should follow Johnny Mercer's advice--Accentuate the positive.)
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To: shhrubbery!

Couple observations if I may:

1. Most active-duty military personnel are “red” staters. Most veterans (i.e. people that know a butt from a barrel and can actually aim a weapon) are “red” staters. So there’s some advantage.

2. It’s very difficult to get *regular* soldiers (as opposed to “security-forces” types like the old ZOMO in Poland or Securitate in Romania that were actually chosen from sociopaths and trained to kill civilians) to fire on their “own” people. In the USSR, in 1962, bread riots broken out in the south Russian city of Novocherkassk. Local police were ineffective, so regular army soldiers were brought in. Instead of suppressing the rioters, the soldiers actually acted in sympathy with them! Kazakh Interior Ministry troops, who viscerally hated Russians, had to be brought in to put the riot down. Just an example.


46 posted on 11/07/2012 11:07:15 AM PST by teflon9 (Political campaigns should follow Johnny Mercer's advice--Accentuate the positive.)
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To: teflon9
Agree with you about current active duty military personnel, and veterans.

I am worried for the future of our military though. As I posted before, Obama is steadily destroying morale in our military, discouraging enlistment by the kind of soldiers they used to attract.

Because of Clintonized/feminized/Obama-ized policies, our military of the future will not have the same ethics; or the same understanding of America; or the same sense of what they (the military) are (or were) fighting for.

47 posted on 11/07/2012 11:25:41 AM PST by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: machogirl

Here is a speculation. The Dems seem surprised a bit to have won. Maybe the plan was to tweak things just enough to throw the election into a Bush v. Gore long drawn out battle with riots and ultimate discrediting of a Romney win, at which point “President” Romney would get the blame for what they already know is inevitable, then they come back in and have it all. Instead things went a LITTLE more in their favor than they thought, plus the last minute storm pushed things more in their direction and when that is added to their tweaking it creates this odd looking election. Convoluted, but Liberal minds are convoluted.


48 posted on 11/07/2012 11:33:17 AM PST by Anima Mundi (ENVY IS JUST PASSIVE, LAZY GREED)
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To: sten

You have read Apollo and Dionysius essay by Rand, huh?


49 posted on 11/07/2012 11:46:22 AM PST by Anima Mundi (ENVY IS JUST PASSIVE, LAZY GREED)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
I think he has stumbled upon the Dems’ Achilles Heel. That is one rag-tag mess of a coalition they are running with. It has to pull apart at the seams at some point. Unions vs. Enviroweenies, Blacks vs. Hispanics, etc. Will be interesting to watch Barry tap-dance to try and keep them all together.

Yes. But it needs to be helped along with finesse. Remember that Obama has the mass media in his corner.

My caveat should not be taken for more than it is. Helping others to recognize the inherent conflict of interest in one who exploits them for political advantage is an altruistic act. But again, act with good-will & finesse.

As for the direct point of the essay, see War Against Cultural Continuity.

William Flax

50 posted on 11/07/2012 11:46:33 AM PST by Ohioan
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