Posted on 10/15/2012 10:28:02 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
A popular Christian blogger says he's voting for Mitt Romney and is challenging notions that Christians should sit out this year's election or that they shouldn't vote for the GOP presidential candidate because he's a Mormon.
In a series of blog posts, Frank Turk listed several reasons on Pyromaniacs why he's voting for and endorsing a "Mormon son of a Mormon who was not very conservative in Massachusetts and has not demonstrated very safely-right ideology in governing in the past."
One of those reasons is abortion.
Turk recognized that there are some Christians who will either try to vote for a third party candidate or not vote at all because both Romney and President Obama support abortions, though Romney only approves of it in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother.
For many Christians, abortion is murder, immoral and sinful and voting for a candidate who supports abortion would be wrong.
So by not voting, these Christians "protect their holiness."
Turk offers: "Doing nothing and calling it a moral victory is cowardly. It may actually be evil. But if it is nothing else, it is certainly this: failing to do as much as possible to make a difference toward the improvement of those things which you can effect and can make better. Failing to show that much compassion and effort is morally lazy.
"In the world we actually live in, where in our country there are about 1,200,000 abortions every year, one candidate/party is saying that we could eliminate 960,000 abortions by saying the only exceptions might be physical health and welfare of the mother. It's moral malpractice to say that seeking to reduce the number of abortions by 80% is the same as saying 100% of all abortions are politically and morally OK."
So Turk is endorsing Romney in order "to avoid the obvious moral failing of doing nothing at all – or participating in the moral equivalent of performance art – to turn back an unacceptable outcome even if the alternative is only less-unacceptable."
Turk also argued against the common argument that electing Romney to the White House would equate to assisting Mormonism in becoming a mainstream religious option.
In Romans 13, the Apostle Paul indicates that a non-Christian person, in his case Caesar, is capable of being a sound ruler.
"Even Caesar and his functionaries were able to approve of good conduct and strike terror into those who have bad conduct. In Paul's mind, being an unbeliever does not disqualify anyone from being a political ruler," Turk wrote.
Additionally, God instituted the governments, he argued. Even if the government may serve God poorly, the institution of government "is actually God's ordinary means of looking out for justice and judgment."
"Paul says that explicitly about the Roman government – which, let's face it, is barbaric by our standards. The kind of morality the average Roman would ascribe to would be absolutely wanton by our post-Christian standards. Yet somehow the Mormon view of morality is not going to work for an American magistrate?" said Turk.
Regarding the notion that Christians would be assisting a cult in becoming more mainstream, he said: "That sounds very high-minded and God-glorifying – until we start to think about all the things we have to give up which, frankly, make things that are non-Christian into socially-acceptable practices. We'd have to give up the internet, for starters; we'd have to give up our iPhones. We'd have to give up books. We'd have to give up Capitalism and Democracy.
"If we can rightly, theologically justify all the other ways we cooperate with non-believers on the secular stage, ignoring the means of doing so now to maintain your alleged holiness is, at best, evidence which ought to be used to convict you of greater transgressions."
Providing one "America" reason that the "don't assist in making a cult mainstream" doesn't work out, the blogger wrote, "Voting for any man does not affirm that you accept his religious expression, or his systematic theology: it affirms that you accept his right as a citizen to run for office."
In his concluding post, Turk stated that his intention is not to make Christians into "mindless voters for red-state dominion."
"What I want is for you to not pretend this election is just another election," he wrote.
"Vote effectively. And Vote prayerfully."
After these past 4 years... it’s ANY PORT IN THE STORM !
Talk about taking a Christocentric passage and distorting it to meet a non-spiritual issue..
“Better a Mormon in the White House than the Muslim we have now.”
For me, “Better a strict Constitutionalist in the White House than a religious zealot of any kind.” I’m very Baptist (preacher’s kid, seminary student, etc.), and I make my choice for president based on which candidate will more strictly follow the Constitution. I’d rather have an atheist who is committed to upholding every part of the Constituion, especially absolute freedom of religion, than a Baptist who is committed to turn the country toward that denomination. If complete freedom of religion is upheld, then everybody wins.
Many Baptists now don’t understand the fundamental tenets, especially personal soul liberty and religious freedom. We studied that in Sunday School back in the ‘50s and ‘60s, but I think kids don’t learn the basics any more.
You’re slipping. I thought you would be instantly aroused and be the first response on this thread. The choice is a Muslim or Mormon. I guess your hate of Romney is so intense that the Muslim is okay. The guy who lets babies die after a botched abortion.
Try reading it again.
The whole issue of that passage is making a deal with a known evil to avoid an evil feared to be worse. God says we should trust Him for the outcome. I mean to do that.
Unless you mean to say God distorts His command to follow him and trust Him in all things. Do you really mean to say that?
And for those who would thereby, in turn, proceed to "lecture" me on the "realities" of voting for a third-party candidate, please spare me...until you can show me links to how you lectured all Romney & would-be Romney voters in blue states -- since voting for Romney in non-swing state blue states is likewise "throwing your vote away" on a candidate who absolutely has ZERO chance of claiming those particular electoral votes.
Voting for a third party candidate in a non-swing state is better than voting for a pro-abort who will lose, anyway. And if I happened to reside in a swing state, guess what? (I'd still vote for Virgil Goode...why vote for somebody portending to be a "god in embryo" whose in favor of dismembering younger versions of Jessica Ridgeway???)
Mr. Obama is from Hawaii by way of Indonesia by way of Kenya. His move to Illinois was merely strategic, like Hillary moving to New York instead of back to Arkansas or Illinois.
I'm all out of compassion for lying murderous politicians. I only have compassion left for the babies that get murdered everyday.
When this nation fears God, abortion will come to an abrupt end. Until we fear God, we are teetering on the razor's edge of unmitigated and unprecedented wrath and destruction: economically, militarily and morally. I believe that the Civil War was a cake walk compared to what is in store for us. Abortion is not just our crime it is our unbearable punishment.
Somebody please tell me about how an iota of any of the crap thrown in tonight's debate has anything to do with fearing God.
Lamentations 3:12
He hath bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow.
There is no contest here. Either we get a Morman who believes in family and faith and freedom or a muslim who believes is taking money from producers and giving it to freeloaders. A free market proponent or a socialist. There is no contest here.
I will vote for Mitt, go home, take a long shower and fall to my knees in prayer that my pragmatic secular decision in this world is understood by the Almighty in his...
I’m not going to say that tough times aren’t ahead, we are in them now imo.
But people talk about God judging nations and specifically America a lot and I’m just not sure it would be as brutal as some suggest. In the end time yes there will be a terrible time, but right now we are in a time when God is giving people, thus nations the opportunity to come to him through the preaching about Christ. I’m not sure I buy the Idea that America is going to be fried, not saying it will not happen, but as a believer I can petition God, that it not happen, and I believe he hears and answers me.
America has sinned terrible, as have most nations if not all. So if America is going down that path, aren’t all the rest too ?
I’m 100% a believer and I believe when the commandments and word of God are violated that there is a price to pay, but thank God he has made a way out, forgiveness, which God has freely given,( he wanted to give it, nobody made God do it) through the blood of Christ.
I would in no way say it is OK to disobey God’s word, and I do fear him. But if all this judgement is going on, how are some of these other countries still in existance ?
If we obey God, we will be blessed, if we don’t we will be cursed, that is clear.
Satan is the enemy and the destroyer and as believers we are to stand against him and be overcomers. I will do this and God we’ll be by my side, I have no doubt about that.
I like what one old preacher had to say. He said back when he was a kid in the 1930’s that people were saying that Satan is taking everything over in America. He would say no he’s not, because I’m not going to let him take me over.
Blessed be the name of God, the enemy is defeated !
I don’t know this guy, but he’s right...we need to vote our conscience, and beliefs this year.
Permit me to answer the Muslim/Obama question. Keeping in mind that Colofornian cannot approach the topic of Mormonism objectively. Destroying Mormonism is his raison d’etre.
Islam means submit/submission and as a religion/philosophy is wholly incompatible with individual liberty. There isn’t any in Islam. It just isn’t accounted for and when accounted accounts for evil. Islam is diametrically opposed to the idea of America.
None of the Muslim issues swirling about Obama would matter if he acted like someone who likes America. He doesn’t, so his religious beliefs from Islam to Rev. Wright are all critical. It’s the ideas behind his actions.
Mormons on the other hand are a uniquely American religion. They are Restorationist in outlook. They see America as a special place where individual liberty was the precursor for the Restoration of “true Christianity”. They believe that Jesus Christ restored his Church on American soil because of, not in spite of the idea of America and American liberty.
Mormons view the Constitution as a God-inspired document. Muslims don’t and Obama doesn’t. To draw a moral equivalency to Romney/Mormonism and Islam/Liberation Theology/Obama is absurd on its face. The litmus test isn’t in the Constitution, but it is in someone’s actions and beliefs. Romney’s line up with America and Obama’s against.
Colofornian because of your monomania about Mormonism you cannot see that. I don’t expect you to. I expect you to continue to rant and rave about it. The only reason I’m responding is to clarify the issue, not to convince you.
(And I suppose that you -- a Joseph Smith disciple of some stripe...and one who won't readily confess that in a context like FR...are "objective" about Mormonism???)
Mormons on the other hand are a uniquely American religion. They are Restorationist in outlook. They see America as a special place where individual liberty was the precursor for the Restoration of “true Christianity”. They believe that Jesus Christ restored his Church on American soil because of, not in spite of the idea of America and American liberty. Mormons view the Constitution as a God-inspired document. Muslims don’t and Obama doesn’t.
Allow me to "translate" "restorationist" for non-Mormons.
Lds materials left and right couple "THE restoration" with a so-called "universal apostasy that in the Mormon mind lasted almost 1800 years. (Yes, that means in the Mormon worldview that the very men who were behind this nation's constitution -- and the Christian churches that most of them were indeed a part of -- are deemed by Lds as "apostates.")
So when 1010rd talks about "true Christianity" being "restored," he means that Lds leaders soundly accuse all Christian sects of practicing "untrue" Christianity...Christian men who Joseph Smith of being "corrupt" as professors of Christianity...as in 100% of such men!
Mormons view the Constitution as a God-inspired document.
Let us "check under the hood" for context of this Mormon claim. Lds indeed believe that the U.S. Constitution was raised up for the very purpose that Mormon "saints" could come along, declare the Christian gospel void & false & 100% of Christian creeds "abominable," and insert the Mormon "gospel" [of legalism] in its place.
They do on the basis of Lds "scriptural" passages like Doctrine & Covenants 101:77-80...and a prayer for the Constitution in D&C 109:54.
So allow us to devote a little time to the context of those verses...and what falls in between. Let's start with D&C 101...A # of verses after vv. 77-80, Joseph Smith threatened that if the Missouri governor and U.S. President refused to hear the importunities of Lds saints..."and if the president heed them not, then will the Lord arise and come forth out of his hiding place, and in his fury vex the nation..." (v. 89)
By four chapters later in the D.C., Joseph Smith was still threatening the Missouri -- and later the nation thru the following words that got encrypted into Lds temple rituals thru 1926...when George Romney was 19 years old: "...throwing down the towers of mine enemies that may be upon them, and scattering their watchmen, and avenging me of mine enemies unto the third and fourth generation...But first let my army [the Mormon militia] become very great...and that her banners may be terrible unto all nations..." (D&C 105:30-31)
The Lds temple ritual thru 1926 included the phrasing of Mormons vowing in their sacred temples that they would take the Mormon god's "vengeance" upon this nation -- and implement this unto the ensuing third and fourth generations.
I also mentioned D&C 109:54 having a Mormon prayer for the Constitution; well, 19 verses later -- D&C 109:73...Smith said: "That thy church may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness...and terrible as an army with banners;"
You see, Joseph Smith's "worldview" of this period (1834 thru early 1836) was that "the earth is given unto the [Latter-day] saints, to possess it forever and ever." (D&C 103:7)
So just as Mormons have usurped the very purpose of the U.S. Constitution as one applying primarily to the establishment of the Mormon church & gospel; likewise, the very property of ALL the earth is for the purpose of Mormon possession.
And, as we can see from Lds "scriptures" D&C 105:31 and 109:73, Joseph Smith's vision was that Mormons would become a major militia -- and become a "terrible" army unto the nations.
Smith's Illinois Mormon militia in the early to mid 1840s was larger than any military outfit in the region.
He was on his way to such an attempt when, having expended one gun and in possession of a second weapon, he died in a shootout.
I rest my case.
http://www.nraila.org/about-nra-ila/director%27s-archive/one-on-one-with-governor-mitt-romney.aspx
Above is a Romney interview with the NRA. I couldn’t find a similar one for Obama.
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