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Europe’s Richer Regions Want Out
The New York Times ^ | October 6, 2012 | STEVEN ERLANGER

Posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by presidio9

CATALONIA may be the catalyst for a renewed wave of separatism in the European Union, with Scotland and Flanders not far behind. The great paradox of the European Union, which is built on the concept of shared sovereignty, is that it lowers the stakes for regions to push for independence.

While a post-national European Union may be emerging out of the euro zone crisis, with a drive for more fiscal union and more centralized control over national budgets and banks, the crisis has accelerated calls for independence from member countries’ richer regions, angry at having to finance poorer neighbors.

Artur Mas, the Catalan president, recently shook Spain and the markets with a call for early regional elections and promised a referendum on independence from Spain, although Madrid considers it illegal. Scotland is planning an independence referendum for the autumn of 2014. The Flemish in Flanders have achieved nearly total autonomy, both administrative and linguistic, but still resent what they consider to be the holdover hegemony of the French-speakers of Wallonia and the Brussels elite, emotions that will be on display in provincial and communal elections Oct. 14.

There are countless things that hold unhappy countries, like marriages, together — shared history, shared wars, shared children, shared enemies. But the economic crisis in the European Union is also highlighting old grievances.

Many in Catalonia and Flanders, for example, argue that they pay significantly more into the national treasury than they receive, even as national governments cut public services. In this sense, the regional argument is the euro zone argument writ small, as richer northern countries like Germany, Finland and Austria complain that their comparative wealth and success are being drained to keep countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain afloat.

The crisis has also produced a loss of

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Government; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: austria; catalonia; eu; europe; europeanunion; euseparation; finland; flanders; flight; germany; gof; golf; greece; haggis; judgesmails; portugal; russia; scotland; separation; spain; unitedkingdom; wallonia
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To: Lysandru

Haggis!


41 posted on 10/06/2012 7:05:17 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: Voice of Reason1

And here is another factoid and the source:

“New York transferred over $950 billion to the rest of America’s fiscal union from 1990 to 2009.”

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union


42 posted on 10/06/2012 7:09:22 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: presidio9; All

What does “paralyzed in amber” mean on the page 2 reference to Berlin? Anybody?


43 posted on 10/06/2012 7:11:30 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (Don't be afraid to see what you see. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Vanders9
Scotland's imput on Financial services is very small, certainly in comparison to City of London.

I should certainly HOPE so! Population of Scotland: 5mm. Population of England: 50mm.

44 posted on 10/06/2012 7:16:16 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Moltke

No, that would be "gof." Without the "L."

I'm told the president is a fan.

45 posted on 10/06/2012 7:19:48 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Carry_Okie
In my lifetime, there has not been a year in which California has not supplied much more to the Federal treasury than has been allocated here. So could you please explain what you mean by California "leaching off others"?

Same thing the tinfoil hat crew in flyover country is talking about when the suggest that NY is doing the same.

46 posted on 10/06/2012 7:21:41 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Paladin2; Vanders9

Have either of you two goofballs ever actually tried haggis?


47 posted on 10/06/2012 7:23:25 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Nik Naym

For starters, wikipedia never qualifies as a reliable primary resource.


48 posted on 10/06/2012 7:25:01 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Nik Naym

So basically you’re trying to put forth a false narrative because you know that the Wikipedia ISN’T a reliable source.

Try again.


49 posted on 10/06/2012 7:40:56 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Carry_Okie
Sorry to be so cryptic - Show me the stats on that means show me recent data from a reliable source instead of tying the Wild Goose Chase Gambit. Since YOU are the one making the claim, it is up to YOU to find the information from an accredited information source (i.e. NOT the ‘wiki’) and quote it here for everyone to see. Can you do that?
50 posted on 10/06/2012 7:52:06 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Voice of Reason1
Since YOU are the one making the claim, it is up to YOU to find the information from an accredited information source (i.e. NOT the ‘wiki’) and quote it here for everyone to see. Can you do that?

No, it's up to me to provide an irrefutable rationale, with supporting data from an irrefutable source, which I did.

51 posted on 10/06/2012 7:54:03 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: BeauBo

As time goes on and the productive leave the vampire state that is bound to change.


52 posted on 10/06/2012 7:55:32 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: prairiebreeze

I believe Charlie Scheen was “paralyzed in Amber” for a few years back in the late 90’s...


53 posted on 10/06/2012 8:01:49 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Okay, so according to you I could make up any manner of claims and it would be up to others to prove it wrong.

I could say that I heard that Obama is a felon – now YOU have to prove he isn’t.

You can begin your research here: www.britannica.com and I hear goggle is pretty good.

There, I provided the “irrefutable rationale” and a “irrefutable source” Now, off you go – and don’t come back until you proven the Dear Liar doesn’t belong in jail.

54 posted on 10/06/2012 8:05:39 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Voice of Reason1

I gave you a Google scan of a US Census Bureau document. If that’s not good enough for you, stick it.


55 posted on 10/06/2012 8:46:07 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks presidio9.


56 posted on 10/06/2012 9:22:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SaraJohnson

Best.

Post.

Ever.


57 posted on 10/06/2012 9:34:38 PM PDT by Condor 63
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To: Carry_Okie
Taxes vs. receipts by state - 2005

Since 1981

58 posted on 10/06/2012 10:21:12 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Thanks. I've dug up similar data before. The last time I looked for that data it was $0.74 on the dollar, but it depends upon the interval. What is most important is to realize that for most States, Federal spending wildly exceeds tax receipts, because FedGov operates at a deficit. To be at or near 1:1 is unusual, and hardly a parasite on the rest of the States. So the case for California being a disproportionate source of revenue and not a sink, is understated in terms of "fairness" among the States.

The biggie is to get people understanding the principal reasons for California's positive balance of Federal payments v. tax receipts, having to do with high costs of living driving away retirees and more people earning high incomes paying higher marginal rates. If they whine for more after that, it's gamesmanship I'm not going to coddle any more.

59 posted on 10/07/2012 12:31:22 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: presidio9

Congrats - decided I had already used up my share some 24 years ago.


60 posted on 10/07/2012 2:11:19 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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