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20 years after Ruby Ridge, there's forgiveness
AP ^ | 08/19/2012 | By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS

Posted on 08/19/2012 3:44:43 PM PDT by rabidralph

KALISPELL, Mont. (AP) — When Sara Weaver saw her father Randy struck in the shoulder by a government sniper's bullet in the Idaho wilderness in August 1992, she began to sprint back to the family's cabin on a mountaintop called Ruby Ridge.

As the 16-year-old closed in, her mother, Vicki, opened the cabin door and stood behind it, holding Sara Weaver's 10-month-old sister in her arms. Just then, a sniper's bullet struck her mother in the head, killing her.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; US: Idaho
KEYWORDS: anniversary; atf; christians; fbi; feds; forgiveness; georgehwbush; horiuchi; idaho; leo; lonhoriuchi; randyweaver; rubyridge; weavers
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The story continues at Yahoo News. A great testament on how true Christian forgiveness can heal a heart. Difficult but not impossible.
1 posted on 08/19/2012 3:44:47 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph

Sara Weaver, outside her ranch, in Kalispell, Mont.

2 posted on 08/19/2012 3:46:56 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph
She's cute!

I can't believe it's been 20 years.

3 posted on 08/19/2012 3:56:08 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I love the Universe, and it loves me.)
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To: rabidralph
Prayers for her and the family. A horrible thing to have gone through.

I notice that the article makes no mention of Bill Clinton's role in these government-sponsored murders, but continues to try to shift the blame to unidentified right-wing hate groups.

And wouldn't you know that they quote the Southern Poverty Law Center as their prime authority on that:

"Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which keeps tabs on hate groups.

No, sorry, the SPLC is one of the worst hate groups on the planet.

4 posted on 08/19/2012 3:56:37 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: rabidralph

>> “For the next nine days, the surviving Weavers holed up in the cabin while hundreds of federal agents laid siege in a standoff that helped spark an anti-government patriot movement that grew to include the Oklahoma City bombing.” <<

.
This is pure crap!

The bombing of the Murrah building was carried out by our own government, and hung on useful idiots that were conned into creating a diversion with their mostly ineffective truck bomb.
.


5 posted on 08/19/2012 3:57:59 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Cicero

Agreed.


6 posted on 08/19/2012 3:58:29 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: rabidralph
"Over time, federal agents began investigating the Army veteran for possible ties to white supremacist and anti-government groups.

Randy was not just an Army veteran but a brother in Special Forces. I personally will never forgive the government tyrants that killed his family.

I am glad to see that Sara has found forgiveness. Maybe some day I will.

De Oppresso Liber

7 posted on 08/19/2012 3:58:35 PM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: rabidralph
FWIW from Wiki, the assassin was Lon Horiuchi, 1976 West Point Grad.

Shame.

8 posted on 08/19/2012 4:01:08 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Punch a rat.)
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To: rabidralph

“Difficult but not impossible.”

Impossible for me.

Should we forgive the 9-11 murderers?


9 posted on 08/19/2012 4:03:31 PM PDT by panaxanax (Voting 'Third Party' will ensure a Communist-Marxist-Socialist dominated Supreme Court!)
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To: rabidralph

The murderers of Ruby Ridge and Waco do not deserve forgiveness.

The people in charge deserve even less.


10 posted on 08/19/2012 4:03:37 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Cicero
I notice that the article makes no mention of Bill Clinton's role in these government-sponsored murders, but continues to try to shift the blame to unidentified right-wing hate groups.

Ruby Ridge happened in 1992. William Jefferson Clintom was inagurated in January, 1993.

11 posted on 08/19/2012 4:04:45 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: rabidralph

I wonder how meaningful it is to “forgive” someone who doesn’t ask for forgiveness and with whom you have zero contact. It all seems a little impersonal and abstract.


12 posted on 08/19/2012 4:07:29 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: rabidralph

“a sniper’s bullet struck her mother in the head” I guess they didn’t want to take them in only kill them.
That’s a good government for all!


13 posted on 08/19/2012 4:07:59 PM PDT by conservativesister
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To: Jacquerie
...FWIW from Wiki, the assassin was Lon Horiuchi, 1976 West Point Grad...

There is reason to believe that the SOB was at Mt Carmel in Waco also.

Many years ago a friend was talking about how the "Patriot Underground" was working behind the scenes to thwart the feds.

I told him that there was no "Patriot Underground". He asked my why I said that.

I replied "Because Lon Horiuchi is still alive."

14 posted on 08/19/2012 4:08:08 PM PDT by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: Cicero

Happened under Bush I.


15 posted on 08/19/2012 4:09:35 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: FReepaholic
When we read FR posts that our military will never obey a Chairman Obama to kill Americans resisting tyranny . . .
16 posted on 08/19/2012 4:15:45 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Punch a rat.)
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To: Cicero

“I notice that the article makes no mention of Bill Clinton’s role in these government-sponsored murders, but continues to try to shift the blame to unidentified right-wing hate groups.”

The government sponsored murders at Ruby Ridge were under the administration of one George Herbert Walker Bush, famous for denouncing Reagan’s economic plans as “voodoo economics”, promising “Read my lips, no new taxes”, and later proclaiming a “New World Order”.

You are probably thinking of the government sponsored murders at Waco, Texas, which did indeed take place during the administration of William Jefferson Blythe Clinton.

One common factor between the two government sponsored murders is Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi, a graduate of West Point and former Army officer, who later trained for the FBI to become a sniper, which is sort of like sending someone to medical school and surgical training so they can butcher meat. It was Horiuchi’s shot that blew apart Vicki Weaver’s head while she was armed with a 10 month old infant.

Know your enemies. All of them.


17 posted on 08/19/2012 4:15:45 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: Iron Munro
The murderers of Ruby Ridge and Waco do not deserve forgiveness.

I hope they all die from a slow dibilitating disease. Nothing but government tyrants if you ask me.

And as far as Janet Reno is concerned, may she burn in hell.

18 posted on 08/19/2012 4:16:10 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Iron Munro
The murderers of Ruby Ridge and Waco do not deserve forgiveness.

Agree 100%, this was wrong on every level and the murderers should have been brought to justice.
May Lon Horiuchi, the murderer of Vicki Weaver, one day receive the justice he deserves.

19 posted on 08/19/2012 4:17:43 PM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: mosaicwolf

” Randy was not just an Army veteran but a brother in Special Forces. I personally will never forgive the government tyrants that killed his family.

I am glad to see that Sara has found forgiveness. Maybe some day I will.

De Oppresso Liber”

Thank you sincerely for your service. I just pray that God will reward people like Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi with all that they deserve, and leave it in His hands. That is the best I can do.


20 posted on 08/19/2012 4:18:56 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: rabidralph
UN-believable quote in the middle of this article:

"Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which keeps tabs on hate groups.

Did the reporter not see the irony in this statement?

Especially now, in view of the hate-crime committed against the Family Research Council after the FRC was labeled a "hate group" by that very same "Southern Poverty Law Center"?

21 posted on 08/19/2012 4:23:08 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: editor-surveyor

There was a time, not long ago, I would have thought your post to be raving lunacy.

No longer.


22 posted on 08/19/2012 4:23:38 PM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: rabidralph

When she gets to put a bullet into Lon Horiuchi’s head, then there will have been justice.


23 posted on 08/19/2012 4:24:33 PM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: Psalm 144

She’s a better person than I. Lon Horiuchi should have been tried for the murder of her mother and whoever gave him license to fire should be tried for being an accessory.


24 posted on 08/19/2012 4:25:25 PM PDT by Robwin
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To: Cicero
"Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which keeps tabs on hate groups.

That statement needs correcting:

Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-CITIZEN hatred not seen since the Civil War Reconstruction in the southern states.

That's better - much more truthful.


25 posted on 08/19/2012 4:25:49 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Cicero

“anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War,”

Most people in the South LIKED President Davis. What was that SPLC guy talking about?;)


26 posted on 08/19/2012 4:26:06 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: Lazamataz

20 years Laz. We’re getting old.

I lived in Spokane, WA during this time. The kids today, they simply have no idea.

I first started reading William Johnstone around this time too. He was right on the money, just about 2+ decades off on his timeline. (shakes head)


27 posted on 08/19/2012 4:26:53 PM PDT by RikaStrom ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: unixfox

“And as far as Janet Reno is concerned, may she burn in hell.”

For the blood of the murders at Reno Ridge.


28 posted on 08/19/2012 4:29:12 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton
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To: Iron Munro
The murderers of Ruby Ridge and Waco do not deserve forgiveness.

********************************

We must never forget.

29 posted on 08/19/2012 4:29:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Iron Munro

“Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-CITIZEN hatred not seen since the Civil War Reconstruction in the southern states.

That’s better - much more truthful”

Yes it is.


30 posted on 08/19/2012 4:30:00 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: Jacquerie

He was also at Waco, IIRC.


31 posted on 08/19/2012 4:30:36 PM PDT by sauropod (Only two of God's creatures can employ the term "we": newspaper editors and men with tapeworms-Hayes)
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To: Lazamataz

Where does the time go?


32 posted on 08/19/2012 4:32:17 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: unixfox
And as far as Janet Reno is concerned, may she burn in hell.

Agreed. And one Eric Holder. Reno "collapsed" into his arms when she made the decision about Waco.

I have a long memory.

33 posted on 08/19/2012 4:34:00 PM PDT by sauropod (Only two of God's creatures can employ the term "we": newspaper editors and men with tapeworms-Hayes)
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To: Psalm 144

I only forgive after an apology. I remember this well, and at the time I remember thinking that her visage must have filled his scope entirely. I have never doubted that he knew exactly what he was doing when he shot an unarmed woman.


34 posted on 08/19/2012 4:35:34 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can still go to hell.)
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To: Cicero
I notice that the article makes no mention of Bill Clinton's role in these government-sponsored murders...

Why should they? Bill Clinton was merely a candidate in August '92.

35 posted on 08/19/2012 4:35:44 PM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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To: rabidralph

I read somewhere recently that Bo Greitz said that there was a Fed helicopter loaded with some kind of flammable liquid just waiting to dump it on the Weaver house to incinerate them but they could not get the witnesses away.

I certainly believe that. Burn it. Leaves no evidence. There are lots of examples of this when the Feds are engaged in a seige against citizens.

There is no statute of limitations for murder. There should be no forgiveness either.


36 posted on 08/19/2012 4:36:17 PM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: panaxanax

Jesus says we must forgive others, as our heavenly Father has forgiven us. That’s why I said it’s difficult. We don’t have to be friends with those who hate like that, but Christians are commanded to go about things a different way and forgiveness is a part of it. Don’t get me wrong, I would defend myself from anyone’s attack but at some point I have to work toward forgiveness and pray for their salvation. Tuff stuff.


37 posted on 08/19/2012 4:39:19 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: 43north

“I certainly believe that. Burn it. Leaves no evidence. There are lots of examples of this when the Feds are engaged in a seige against citizens.”

Precisely as they did at Waco.


38 posted on 08/19/2012 4:45:54 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: eclecticEel

Well, there is that. There are some things we have no connection with and so it would be frivolous to get into a “legal” ritual of forgiving.


39 posted on 08/19/2012 4:48:43 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph

A while back, she appeared on a cable TV show hosted by William Shatner, and he interviewed her. I was already quite familiar with what happened, including the congressional cover-up and payment to Randy Weaver for “wrongful death.” My first thought when I saw her was that she was very cute.

She narrated the most horrifying story, and her grace and composure had me crying halfway through the episode.

I’m not a Christian, but to me she exemplified my understanding of what it means to be a good Christian.

Mark


40 posted on 08/19/2012 4:49:03 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Jacquerie
When we read FR posts that our military will never obey a Chairman Obama to kill Americans resisting tyranny . . .

That is because there is a HUGE difference between law enforcement and the military. They have drastically different world missions, drastically different operating philosophies, and severely different philosophical reasons for signing up. That said, now that the Left is packing the military with homos, all bets are off.
41 posted on 08/19/2012 4:53:27 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: RightOnline

General Benjamin Partin, USAF Ret. posted a complete report on the Murrah building, that left anything other than what I posted to be absolute lunacy.

Partin was once the US Govt’s chief expert on demolition.


42 posted on 08/19/2012 4:59:18 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
The bombing of the Murrah building was carried out by our own government, and hung on useful idiots that were conned into creating a diversion with their mostly ineffective truck bomb.

I live in Oklahoma City and you can take that crap and put it where the sun don't shine. And take Ron Horiuchi with you.

43 posted on 08/19/2012 5:00:11 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: fr_freak

OTOH, all military people with families live on base or in the communities where they’re stationed. It would not be beyond the government to threaten their families to make them active duty member carry out unlawful orders. Pretty hard to quote the UCMJ when the orders come from the top.


44 posted on 08/19/2012 5:00:20 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: Lazamataz

Hi Laz

Your ping list - “Sometimes-Funny, Sometimes-Disturbing” - set me up :o)

I met Randy back in the day - dam discrace what happened to him and his family.


45 posted on 08/19/2012 5:02:43 PM PDT by ezoeni
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To: MarkL
I’m not a Christian, but to me she exemplified my understanding of what it means to be a good Christian.

That makes her a great example for the rest of us Christians to follow. Blessings, to you and your family.

46 posted on 08/19/2012 5:02:43 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: editor-surveyor

I was watching either Discovery or NatGeo today and they had a show called Conspiracy Theory or something and it focused on the bombing of the Murrah building. They interviewed Gen. Partin and he disputed the one bomb theory. The show re-created the bombing, based on what McVeigh said he did and the debris placement and blast hole were different. They re-did the blast by rearranging the barrels of fertilizer and it created the blast pattern at the federal building and debunked what Gen. Partin had said. Setting all that aside, why would McVeigh lie about the configuration of the barrels in the van? McVeigh originally said he configured the barrels in a T shape, with one row of barrels at the front of the van and a single row in the center of the van to the back door. That gave the incorrect blast pattern and shallow hole.


47 posted on 08/19/2012 5:10:48 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph

Forgiveness is for the repentant, and repentance does not mean there are no consequences here and now for bad acts. Thus the chaplain at executions. That does not mean WE are the executors. Vengeance is His and He will repay. The blood of innocents is not a thing that is just laughed off.


48 posted on 08/19/2012 5:18:20 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: rabidralph

It’s good that Ms Weaver is able to forgive.
However without justice, forgiveness is a
hollow shell. Till Horiuchi and the rest of
the animals that perpetrated the murders at
Ruby Ridge are arrested and tried there will
be no justice and therefore no chance for true
forgiveness.

Forgiveness without justice is merely enabling.


49 posted on 08/19/2012 5:28:35 PM PDT by nvscanman
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To: editor-surveyor

Wasn’t the OKC bombing more closely tied to the Waco abomination ... second anniversary thereof?


50 posted on 08/19/2012 5:36:57 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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