Posted on 07/24/2012 6:08:18 PM PDT by Talisker
So let's say someone was in the Aurora theater, armed and with a carry permit, in defiance of the signs banning weapons.
Maniac starts shooting. Armed citizen fires back, and stops the carnage.
Then what?
Is he arrested? He's carrying legally, and he just stopped a massacre. Is he sued? For what? Stopping the massacre is an overwhelming defense.
Practically speaking, when someone is legally armed, what can be done to them? How can any charges or lawsuits stand? In other words, what practical power does any corporate policy have that deprives people of the right to self-defense, while providing no corporate lethal defense for those disarmed people?
What would be happening, right now, to such a citizen if the Aurora perp was wounded or dead, right now, because he was shot in the theater by that armed citizen and thereby stopped from going any further than he did?
No free popcorn for life?
Hope I never have to find out!
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Carry concealed and no one will know if you don’t shoot anyone.
If there was a corporate policy against weapons in the theater, the company could sue Holmes in civil court, I suppose.
And maybe the families of the victims could sue the corporation for leaving them unarmed and defenseless. Which they will probably do anyway.
The reason I ask is because:
1) This is the root of about 400 lawsuits currently being prepared against the corporation owning the Aurora theater where the massacre took place;
and
2) I’d reckon a staggering number of carry permit holders across America are now carrying when they go to theaters, and damn the signs.
So it seems a fairly relevant question...
Yes, carry well concealed anywhere that doesn’t have metal detectors and the only way anyone will ever know you’re carrying is if you use it to save a life.
Shooting someone while in commission of a crime (such as trespass) strips the legal shield of self defense. Not only can the theater sue you for damages, but so can the perp’s family (assuming you put the damn dog down..) as well as any patron present.
So, yeah, you'd likely end up in handcuffs and in the back of a cruiser if you had been there and successfully defended all those people. And it probably would have been just reported as a sudden fire when someone opened up the perp’s door (with possibly a theory of there being a meth lab in the apartment..)
And no free Milk Duds for life, too!
Unfortunately, I believe that s/he would be arrested if in a “weapons-free” zone because he or she would have violated the premise’s restriction of “no weapons permitted”. And given today’s hatred for real knights in shining armor (NO offense whatever meant) - and by that I mean real men - the would-be defender of life would probably be given a bit of time to serve to think about and reconsider his actions of life-saving heroism.
Sad.
Pathetic.
God bless and comfort those in their time of need.
There is no Colorado law against carrying there. If they saw you carrying they could ask you to leave and call the cops and charge you with trespass if you refused to leave. I live in Colorado and take the “leave if asked” approach, but no one ever noticed my CCW. If I had been there I would have been carrying or I would have complied when asked to leave. Federal buildings, courthouses with metal detectors and airports past the security checkpoints are exceptions.
In Colorado it’s basically an infraction, as long as you’re not up to no good. There are enhancements that can make it a misdemeanor or a felony based on your own otherwise scandalous behavior.
18-4-504 Third Degree Criminal Trespass
(1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.
There’s probably civil liability apart from the criminal sactoin as well.
Not sure that would change the ROE’s though. Have to think on that one.
Which would put this interpretation on denial of rights up under intense public scrutiny, if many lives were saved that otherwise would have been lost.
Because the "permission" would have consisted of a business transaction that accepted money and gave an implied agreement of protection that was not provided by the corporation. While signs were up barring weapons, no sign or notice existed that the corporation would not provide protection against murderous intent or other criminal acts while simultaniously denying 2A rights to it's paying patrons.
The extreme imbalance of such an agreement, when one side directly profited financially, would create an intense examination of contract limits compared to natural rights in quasi-public business environments - where civilians known to be unskilled in self-defense and stripped of weapons were exposed to a reasonable possibility of lethal danger, and a balance of protective power was specifically not provided by the corporate party.
And if that lethal danger possibility was not formerly considered to be reasonable in theaters, it sure as hell is now.
Have a good lawyer first. If you have to use it be prepared to be charged with ‘something’.
According to my Colorado CCW instructor...
One may carry concealed in all except four places:
Government buildings.
Public Schools.
Places that have stationary metal detecting devices.
Places that have non-stationary metal detecting devices.
If CCW is not allowed, they must make it VERY clear at all entry points.
If they do not, they can ask you to leave.
If you do not, THEN, they can charge you with trespassing.
Private business rules do not trump state law.
In Texas you will lose your CCW if you enter a posted establishment (and get caught). I never do business in a store that posts. They don’t need my money. However Jorge Zimmerman is finding out what will happen to you when the King’s justice dept gets involved. Good thing in Texas most places don’t post signs. Good pro-gun culture.
A firefight inside an auditorium isn’t going to solve the problem. If anything, twice the number of casualties would have arisen from rounds penetrating the walls into the adjacent theaters, while perhaps half the number caused directly by the criminal.
The armed might feel more secure and in control, but not necessarily preventing less casualties. Those with more sane minds are more likely to control the results, if they are armed.
There’s ALWAYS Raisinettes!
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