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Christie Embraces Online Sales Tax
Wall Street Journal ^ | July 16th | WSJ Staff

Posted on 07/16/2012 2:24:56 PM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing

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To: Conscience of a Conservative
No one is asking you to pay New Jersey's taxes. An internet tax would apply the sales tax of the state in which the purchaser sits. If you're in SC, and you buy over the internet, you pay no tax, just as you would pay no tax if you walked down the street to purchase the same good. So, in competing for your business, the out-of-state internet company gains no artificial benefit.

In theory. Until these states decide they want sellers to taxes sales too. IE, New Jersey realizes that a lot of sales are being made to out of state buyers and decides they want their cut too. Then the consumer is faced with paying his state sales tax, the out of state sales tax, and shipping. This would effectively kill internet/mail order commerce.

Regardless, it is still interstate commerce and akin to tariffs between the states.

The object should be too cut government spending and lower taxes at ALL levels; not allow them new opportunities to steal and waste money.

51 posted on 07/16/2012 4:10:57 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (Why do cops have more lenient ROEs when facing us than troops in combat facing suicidal islamists?)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Ha ha, there are plenty of Conservatives right here on FR that would like to see him as Romney’s VP. I’m not one of them. Give me Allen West. To me, Christie is just another Republican but more outspoken and once in awhile crass.


52 posted on 07/16/2012 4:16:42 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: cripplecreek
And to further complicate matters, not all sales taxes are created equal.

I agree this complicates matters. But the underlying question is WHY do some states have higher tax rates? We need to entice the government to spend less and tax less.

Further, there is still the cost of shipping that needs to be overcome. If it is cheaper to by it out of state AND pay for shipping.....then there is a problem with your state.

As it is now, as states pass these laws all that happens is businesses move out of state. So in a bid to grab more money from the people, the state had a net loss now that people are out of work and most likely -

A. Not paying income taxes anymore

B. Not able to buy as much and therefore not paying sales tax and

C. probably collecting unemployment or some other assistance at taxpayer expense.

I just hope things hold out for a little while longer.....I'm trying to stay on a 5 year plan so I can go Galt and never look back......at that point I really don't care much because my purchases will be minimal as will my "income."

53 posted on 07/16/2012 4:19:39 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (Why do cops have more lenient ROEs when facing us than troops in combat facing suicidal islamists?)
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To: 11th Commandment

A friend of mine told me how to sell groins. These are walls that jut out into a body of water. They slow down and stop erosion as the water flows by. He said all he needed was just one sale and he just about gave that away.

You see, he said, the groin collects sand on one side and erodes it on the other. This would force the person down from him to buy one just to protect himself.

I think of this sales tax issue the same way. That the Internet remains untaxed places a stop on the ability of your locality to raise taxes additionally. There’s an escape valve and if they push you too far they’ll lose 100% of the property and sales tax you now produce. It isn’t any wonder that just after the last continental state was admitted the union that the income tax was passed. There was no escaping from it now into the Arizona territory.

Having a tax free Internet transaction protects you from additional taxes. Let’s not go soft and start trusting politicians to do the right thing. The spending problem that is causing the taxing problem is a politician problem.


54 posted on 07/16/2012 4:20:44 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
In a dramatic change, Republican governors — including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — are supporting sales taxes on online purchases in an attempt to send more revenue to state coffers.

So these "Republican" Governors think that we, the people, have too much money and they must take more of our money so they can spend it as they like.

Online retailers have to charge shipping instead of sales tax so the playing field for retailers is already somewhat level.

55 posted on 07/16/2012 4:28:38 PM PDT by RJL (There's no greed like the greed of a liberal politician buying votes with your money.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
"Republicans are screwing this country as fast as the democrats are, and we conservatives stand alone."

And they're doing it in many local governments (including states) as bad as they are from the federal. ...robberies of all kinds all over the place.

Prepare yourselves. In case you haven't noticed, we're morally bankrupt.


56 posted on 07/16/2012 4:35:20 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Alberta's Child
Without this sort of system in place, local businesses are often at a competitive disadvantage against out-of-state (or even out-of-country) competitors.

Spoken like a true Statist.

Compared to 50 years ago, the sum of State, local and Federal taxes are destructively high.

The parasite class (i.e. government) is in the process of literally destroying our Republic.

Anyone who proposes "leveling" the playing field cannot see the utter evil of government staring them in the face.

At ALL times anyone who cares for Liberty should ALWAYS seek to have any and all taxes drastically reduced at every opportunity.

As Governments become bigger and bigger they will have to accelerate their consumption of our hard-earned money.

The political class and most government workers are true enemies of our Liberties.

You do realize that the current obligations of all pensions for public workers -- state, federal and local will be impossible to fund? The government class will have to level the playing field by destroying our currency and impoverishing us all. Public Service, such a noble human undertaking (NOT!!)

57 posted on 07/16/2012 4:36:29 PM PDT by sand88
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To: CondorFlight
Mail-order catalog sales never had to pay sales tax, because of the added cost of shipping and handling.

Nope. It has nothing to do with shipping and handling. It has everything to do with taxing purchases between state lines.

An outlet like Sears or J.C. Penney, which certainly has significant operations in all continental states, would be charging sales tax, and always has in their mail order catalogues.

If you order a product from a company that does NOT have significant operations in the state of the purchaser (e.g. having a pizza shipped from Modern Apizza in New Haven, CT to Illinois), the seller cannot be obliged to charge sales tax. In most states the buyer is supposed to pay a "use" tax, but nobody does. It is simply a matter of jurisdiction. A company operating onl;y in Kentucky or Rhode Island cannot be forced to pay taxes in Virginia or Colorado just because someone in those states orders something from them.

Brick and mortar stores pay shipping as well. I do not support an Internet sales tax, but the brick and mortar stores ARE getting the short end of the stick.
58 posted on 07/16/2012 4:39:30 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (May Mitt Romney have the mother of all Macaca moments)
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To: dfwgator
I see what you're saying but this is just another grab for what's left in our wallets.

Most online purchases are processed thru warehouses, where access to highways and rail transportation is close by. I doubt the wear and tear of added traffic to these transportation hubs add up to additional millions or billions a year to the states.

Also - what is the expectation of those who have e-Bay businesses? Are they going to be expected to collect out of state taxes as well? Talk about an additional burden placed on small businesses.....

59 posted on 07/16/2012 4:45:44 PM PDT by capydick (''Life's tough.......it's even tougher if you're stupid.'')
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

When the beast gets hungry, it gets nasty. Expect this soon.


60 posted on 07/16/2012 4:59:37 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
Assuming that both the out-of-state guy and the in-state guy charge the same amount for the same item, that means that the out-of-state guy's products automatically cost the consumer ~3-8% less (depending on the state), purely because of differing tax rules.

Unless, of course, you have to pay to ship the item (which you usually do). And you have to wait for delivery. So the trade-off seems appropriate: 3-8% less in up-front price, but the cost of shipping and the delay of a day or three. Seems fair...

61 posted on 07/16/2012 5:09:23 PM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: 11th Commandment

Interstate commerce. I would love to have a tariff to protect me too.


62 posted on 07/16/2012 5:16:34 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing; xzins

I would not be opposed to it as long as the interstate rate is from the point of sale rather than the point of purchase. Then all the online retailers would move to states with low or no sales tax. It would force states with high sales taxes to attempt to adopt a lower rate.


63 posted on 07/16/2012 5:28:41 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: P-Marlowe

I would support that, and it makes much more sense. The sellers would see some benefit.


64 posted on 07/16/2012 5:31:49 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I was just thinking taxes are WAY too low. :)


65 posted on 07/16/2012 6:19:11 PM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: P-Marlowe; Halfmanhalfamazing

Christie is just another tax and spend liberal.

He is already known not to be a social conservative.

His willingness to increase fees on drivers and this agreement with increased taxes says he’s not a fiscal conservative.

I guess Ann Coulter must love him cause he’s squeezably soft. She has no case to make about his conservatism.


66 posted on 07/16/2012 6:26:25 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: SpaceBar

The Democrat today is the New Democrat Red Commie loving party of 60s radicals who became the establishment.

The GOP today is infested with 1990s and 2000s Democrats who became RINOs.

There is a difference between the parties but there are far too many Democrats on the ballot in both parties.


67 posted on 07/16/2012 6:45:16 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Just like a good little RINO.


68 posted on 07/16/2012 6:56:45 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone ('We the People' can and will take this country back...starting today.)
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To: MrShoop

No, no, no you’re doing it wrong. The sales tax requirements would be limited to states where that business has a particular physical presence so unless “mom and pop” Inc is located in 49 states, they wouldn’t be concerned with any other states than the one that the reside in.

One of the reasons that Amazon is mentioned so frequently is because they have large distributing facilities in a variety of states and as a result would be subject to a larger overall impact...not that they wouldn’t pass the cost down to the consumer of course.


69 posted on 07/16/2012 8:15:31 PM PDT by PhxTM06
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
Online business is no different than mail order business. If you order something FROM your state that is shipped TO the same state, you pay sales tax. If you order something from another state, you don't.

Mail order companies had to pay for their appearance in print publications, just like online companies have to pay for ther appearance on the internet.

Nothing has changed, and this issue is unmitigated bullshit. Anyone who supports it isn't thinking straight. Some people never met a tax they didn't like. No thanks.

70 posted on 07/16/2012 8:32:19 PM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: 11th Commandment
Government's job isn't to 'create' a level playing field. You're store has a lot of advantages: namely, someone can walk right in and buy a product and get support for it. For his shop, they have to wait a few days, pay shipping costs, and not get any in-person interaction.

Further, if all you are doing is buying something from a manufacturer, marking it up and waiting for customers to walk in, well, FU and F you're business model, too. You deserve to go down along with other historical industries like the horse-pulled chariot and gas lanterns.

IF you're still buttmad about it - why don't you try undercutting his prices and selling without sales tax to people in his state?

Another dollar paid in sales tax is another dollar the government can use to do awful things with. The less dollars they have the better.

71 posted on 07/16/2012 9:43:32 PM PDT by 92nina
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To: PhxTM06
You are describing the law as it stands today, not what Amazon is pushing, and what is currently moving through congress (was Main Street Fairness Act, now is Marketplace Fairness Act). The proposal is that all online sales would be taxed, regardless of physical location. Now that Amazon is in more and more states, and having to pay sales tax, it is now a competitive disadvantage to other online sellers that are in a single state, so Amazon is helping get everyone taxed so they are not at a disadvantage. That's why they are doing these little one or two year deals with California and New jersey - they are just stalling while waiting for the national legislation. This article has a good explanation of what is going on:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/530681-amazon-s-billion-dollar-payday-nearing-thanks-to-marketplace-fairness-act

72 posted on 07/16/2012 10:26:25 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: 11th Commandment

I have an honest question.... Let’s say I open a business, take on overhead, employees, etc. Then some guy in another state does the same, but undercuts me on price through the internet. Wouldn’t I want a sales tax to protect my business? Create an even playing field?

Why can’t you compete with the other guy that also has overhead and employees? If your market can be served through the internet then do so and forget the storefront model. Using government to limit competition is just evil. Only companies that should be eliminated pursue that agenda.


73 posted on 07/17/2012 3:26:23 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Under the current taxation rules, your opponent doesn’t need to do anything to undercut you. If he sells the same quality product, at the same price, his product will cost the consumer ~3-8% less than yours, simply because he is out of state and you are not.

Everyone is out of state for most of their customers. Who is going to reimburse the online seller for the massive headache of collecting the sales tax and filing quarterly with every state in the union when they may have no or little tax from most of those states?


74 posted on 07/17/2012 3:34:58 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Alberta's Child
Without this sort of system in place, local businesses are often at a competitive disadvantage against out-of-state (or even out-of-country) competitors.

That was the argument used by brick-n-mortar shops, but it's going to turn out to be false. Amazon has decided to start charging state tax because it is planning to put up new warehouses everywhere, so it can provide overnight shipping everywhere and same day in a lot of places for free. The local business are going to find out that Amazon can pay the tax and still ship the merchandise to your door cheaper than the local store can sell it.

Better price, more convenience. Amazon wins.

I do believe that this is made possible by advances in pricing, showing higher prices to folks in NYC where shipping and warehouse prices are higher. The prices will still be lower than what you find in the stores in Manhattan.

75 posted on 07/17/2012 7:15:19 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

That’ll help your cruddy state short time, fatso, but then what will you do when you use that sales tax money to expand your state’s government?

You’re not even good enough to be called a RHINO!


76 posted on 07/17/2012 9:49:02 AM PDT by IbJensen (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

how very George H W Bush of him.

This is beyond stupid.

They might be able to snag useful idiots like amazon or ebay, but they will not be able to snare overseas sellers.


77 posted on 07/17/2012 1:07:57 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: vortigern

how many of his outbursts are fake set ups?


78 posted on 07/17/2012 1:18:55 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

“We lived like that “Happy Family“ you sometimes see in traveling zoos: a lion caged with a lamb. It is a startling exhibit but the lamb has to be replaced frequently.”

-Robert A. Heinlein, Have Spacesuit will Travel.

Idiots like Christie are just the lambs with the lion. Same as any other useful idiot RINO/Moderate.


79 posted on 07/17/2012 1:36:30 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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