Christie Embraces Online Sales Tax

Wall Street Journal ^ | July 16th | WSJ Staff

[Halfmanhalfamazing]

In a dramatic change, Republican governors — including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — are supporting sales taxes on online purchases in an attempt to send more revenue to state coffers.

[Wayne07]

Lamar Alexander is working with Dick Durbin(?!?) to make this happen:

From the WSJ:

Seizing on the recent political shift, Sen. Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican, and co-sponsors from both parties are attempting to speed up action on a bill they wrote to give states authority to compel online companies to collect sales taxes.

[Conscience of a Conservative]

Instead of taxing your opponent, the free market should decide. How is he able to under cut you? Is it that his product is lesser quality? Is he trying to sell at a loss? Or, does he have a better business model than you?

Under the current taxation rules, your opponent doesn't need to do anything to undercut you. If he sells the same quality product, at the same price, his product will cost the consumer ~3-8% less than yours, simply because he is out of state and you are not.

When government gets involved....it becomes SNAFU. When you open the door and welcome taxes, be sure more than you expect will follow. Along with taxes comes regulation. Of course, don't expect your competition to sit idly by and watch you destroy him.......he is going to lobby to raise taxes and regulation against YOU.

You're right. Excelt that government is ALREADY involved. The taxation rules already set by the government give out of state merchants an advantage. Taxing internet purchases may not be a free market solution, but leaving the current system in place may not be a free market solution either.

[1010RD]

Agreed and true, but when it comes to spending and thus the necessity of new and more revenue politicians can see their way around reality.

[BfloGuy]

I wonder if Romney’s aware enough to remove Christie from consideration as VP because of this statement.

[Repeat Offender]

You've made a great case to eliminate the sales tax entirely. What you have not done, however, is demonstrate how having a state government apply sales taxes differently for the same product is somehow a "free market" at work.

I'm more in favor of getting rid of income tax vice getting rid of sales tax.

However, to answer how this is the "free market at work" --

In states that are more "free" say comparing South Carolina, to California....businesses are free to move to states such as South Carolina where products are not priced higher via tax in order to pay for entitlement programs and "high-speed" rail to nowhere. This is the free market. It would also aid in forcing stupid states to stop spending money unwisely so they would be enticed to lower taxes in order to compete with lower taxed states.....This is the free market.

California is free to tax products sold in their state however it wants. South Carolina is free to tax products in their state however it wants. However, trying to tax out of state purchases is akin to tariffs between the states and would be "interstate commerce" in its truest sense (vice the garbage infringement Kongress attempts to call it) and should be regulated as such....ie, there should be no taxes at the state level for items sold across state lines.

South Carolinians purchasing items from California via the internet should not pay either SC or CA sales tax. Neither should Californians purchasing items via the internet pay either CA or SC sales tax. This would be equal application under the law and your "free market at work."

Now, if you really wanted to be "fair" and have a "free market"......we would end taxes on productivity (income taxes both state and fed) and implement a Fair Tax on consumption (state and fed sales tax) that were applied evenly to all end user goods and services (yes; food and clothes too - this prevents lobbyists from determining their product is "essential" but not others).

Taking one unfair policy or tax and implementing another to counter it is not fair, the free market, nor a conservative principle. I didn't vote for New Jersey's stupidity because I don't live there..........don't make me pay their damn taxes.

[Repeat Offender]

see 45

[STARWISE]

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[the invisib1e hand]

global taxing authority = global government.

We get a step closer. I give it 5 years.

[cripplecreek]

And to further complicate matters, not all sales taxes are created equal. Here in Michigan we have a 6% sales tax and some states have no sales tax.

[Conscience of a Conservative]

Taking one unfair policy or tax and implementing another to counter it is not fair, the free market, nor a conservative principle. I didn't vote for New Jersey's stupidity because I don't live there..........don't make me pay their damn taxes.

No one is asking you to pay New Jersey's taxes. An internet tax would apply the sales tax of the state in which the purchaser sits. If you're in SC, and you buy over the internet, you pay no tax, just as you would pay no tax if you walked down the street to purchase the same good. So, in competing for your business, the out-of-state internet company gains no artificial benefit.

Likewise, if you're in NY, and you buy something over the internet, you would pay NY tax, just as you would if you walked down the street to buy the same thing. Again, in competing for your business, the out-of-state internet company would gain no artificial benefit (as they do currently).

[Repeat Offender]

No one is asking you to pay New Jersey's taxes. An internet tax would apply the sales tax of the state in which the purchaser sits. If you're in SC, and you buy over the internet, you pay no tax, just as you would pay no tax if you walked down the street to purchase the same good. So, in competing for your business, the out-of-state internet company gains no artificial benefit.

In theory. Until these states decide they want sellers to taxes sales too. IE, New Jersey realizes that a lot of sales are being made to out of state buyers and decides they want their cut too. Then the consumer is faced with paying his state sales tax, the out of state sales tax, and shipping. This would effectively kill internet/mail order commerce.

Regardless, it is still interstate commerce and akin to tariffs between the states.

The object should be too cut government spending and lower taxes at ALL levels; not allow them new opportunities to steal and waste money.

[fish hawk]

Ha ha, there are plenty of Conservatives right here on FR that would like to see him as Romney’s VP. I’m not one of them. Give me Allen West. To me, Christie is just another Republican but more outspoken and once in awhile crass.

[Repeat Offender]

And to further complicate matters, not all sales taxes are created equal.

I agree this complicates matters. But the underlying question is WHY do some states have higher tax rates? We need to entice the government to spend less and tax less.

Further, there is still the cost of shipping that needs to be overcome. If it is cheaper to by it out of state AND pay for shipping.....then there is a problem with your state.

As it is now, as states pass these laws all that happens is businesses move out of state. So in a bid to grab more money from the people, the state had a net loss now that people are out of work and most likely -

A. Not paying income taxes anymore

B. Not able to buy as much and therefore not paying sales tax and

C. probably collecting unemployment or some other assistance at taxpayer expense.

I just hope things hold out for a little while longer.....I'm trying to stay on a 5 year plan so I can go Galt and never look back......at that point I really don't care much because my purchases will be minimal as will my "income."

[1010RD]

A friend of mine told me how to sell groins. These are walls that jut out into a body of water. They slow down and stop erosion as the water flows by. He said all he needed was just one sale and he just about gave that away.

You see, he said, the groin collects sand on one side and erodes it on the other. This would force the person down from him to buy one just to protect himself.

I think of this sales tax issue the same way. That the Internet remains untaxed places a stop on the ability of your locality to raise taxes additionally. There’s an escape valve and if they push you too far they’ll lose 100% of the property and sales tax you now produce. It isn’t any wonder that just after the last continental state was admitted the union that the income tax was passed. There was no escaping from it now into the Arizona territory.

Having a tax free Internet transaction protects you from additional taxes. Let’s not go soft and start trusting politicians to do the right thing. The spending problem that is causing the taxing problem is a politician problem.

[RJL]

In a dramatic change, Republican governors — including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — are supporting sales taxes on online purchases in an attempt to send more revenue to state coffers.

So these "Republican" Governors think that we, the people, have too much money and they must take more of our money so they can spend it as they like.

Online retailers have to charge shipping instead of sales tax so the playing field for retailers is already somewhat level.

[familyop]

"Republicans are screwing this country as fast as the democrats are, and we conservatives stand alone."

And they're doing it in many local governments (including states) as bad as they are from the federal. ...robberies of all kinds all over the place.

Prepare yourselves. In case you haven't noticed, we're morally bankrupt.

[sand88]

Without this sort of system in place, local businesses are often at a competitive disadvantage against out-of-state (or even out-of-country) competitors.

Spoken like a true Statist.

Compared to 50 years ago, the sum of State, local and Federal taxes are destructively high.

The parasite class (i.e. government) is in the process of literally destroying our Republic.

Anyone who proposes "leveling" the playing field cannot see the utter evil of government staring them in the face.

At ALL times anyone who cares for Liberty should ALWAYS seek to have any and all taxes drastically reduced at every opportunity.

As Governments become bigger and bigger they will have to accelerate their consumption of our hard-earned money.

The political class and most government workers are true enemies of our Liberties.

You do realize that the current obligations of all pensions for public workers -- state, federal and local will be impossible to fund? The government class will have to level the playing field by destroying our currency and impoverishing us all. Public Service, such a noble human undertaking (NOT!!)

[Dr. Sivana]

Mail-order catalog sales never had to pay sales tax, because of the added cost of shipping and handling.

Nope. It has nothing to do with shipping and handling. It has everything to do with taxing purchases between state lines.

An outlet like Sears or J.C. Penney, which certainly has significant operations in all continental states, would be charging sales tax, and always has in their mail order catalogues.

If you order a product from a company that does NOT have significant operations in the state of the purchaser (e.g. having a pizza shipped from Modern Apizza in New Haven, CT to Illinois), the seller cannot be obliged to charge sales tax. In most states the buyer is supposed to pay a "use" tax, but nobody does. It is simply a matter of jurisdiction. A company operating onl;y in Kentucky or Rhode Island cannot be forced to pay taxes in Virginia or Colorado just because someone in those states orders something from them.

Brick and mortar stores pay shipping as well. I do not support an Internet sales tax, but the brick and mortar stores ARE getting the short end of the stick.

[capydick]

I see what you're saying but this is just another grab for what's left in our wallets.

Most online purchases are processed thru warehouses, where access to highways and rail transportation is close by. I doubt the wear and tear of added traffic to these transportation hubs add up to additional millions or billions a year to the states.

Also - what is the expectation of those who have e-Bay businesses? Are they going to be expected to collect out of state taxes as well? Talk about an additional burden placed on small businesses.....

[redgolum]

When the beast gets hungry, it gets nasty. Expect this soon.