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No easy fix in massive power outage
GOPUSA ^ | July 4, 2012 | Eric Tucker and Chris Kahn (Associated Press)

Posted on 07/04/2012 4:08:25 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

WASHINGTON (AP) - In the aftermath of storms that knocked out power to millions, sweltering residents and elected officials are demanding to know why it's taking so long to restring power lines and why they're not more resilient in the first place.

The answer, it turns out, is complicated: Above-ground lines are vulnerable to lashing winds and falling trees, but relocating them underground incurs huge costs - as much as $15 million per mile of buried line - and that gets passed onto consumers.

(Excerpt) Read more at gopusa.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: blackout; derecho; dominionpower; electricity; pepco; potomacedison; powerlines; poweroutage; undergroundlines
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1 posted on 07/04/2012 4:08:34 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

It would have all been fine if Bush would have put it underground.

Baraq told me so.


2 posted on 07/04/2012 4:10:12 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; cindy-true-supporter; ...

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


3 posted on 07/04/2012 4:11:43 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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To: nascarnation; Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The spoiled beltway brats did not care a squat when we in Florida were out of power for weeks some times montha. I hope the home insurance company will treat them the SAME way they treated us!!!


4 posted on 07/04/2012 4:16:37 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Wait until the next 30 coal fired plants go offline in the NE & the electric bills skyrocket.

LOL


5 posted on 07/04/2012 4:20:19 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
In the aftermath of storms that knocked out power to millions, sweltering residents and elected officials are demanding to know why it's taking so long to restring power lines and why they're not more resilient in the first place.

What, 3 years or so without a budget out of the Senate and not even a peep however nature strikes and results are demanded NOW!

6 posted on 07/04/2012 4:20:23 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Bam's Katrina.

But, it's Bush's fault.

7 posted on 07/04/2012 4:20:48 PM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Smeco had me back up and running in two hours , they did a beautiful job.

Smeco = Southern Md. Electric Coop.


8 posted on 07/04/2012 4:23:57 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Boo Hoo. Woe is me. Man what a Bunch of pussies. Suck it up and deal with it.


9 posted on 07/04/2012 4:31:34 PM PDT by Autonomous User ( I guess a liberal and an out-of-work bum look a lot a like, daddy.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
In 1882 or 1884 New York City had a massive snow storm and frigid temperatures, all the telephone, telegraph and electric wires and poles were destroyed, it took weeks to get the systems up and running. The Mayor at the time told the Utility Companies put everything underground to avoid the happening again, they refused...said it would cost too much...the Mayor told them, do it or I pull you fanchises to operate in the City. Notice that there a no telephone poles in NYC.
Grow some balls and call their bluff, it would put a lot of people to work...
10 posted on 07/04/2012 4:36:30 PM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: danamco

good. they can save the planet by not using electricity all summer for all i care. bunch of ne elitist know-it-alls. how are those volts doing?
ok feeling a tad bitter/better right now.


11 posted on 07/04/2012 4:36:41 PM PDT by bravo whiskey (If the little things really bother you, maybe it's because the big things are going well.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

In addition to having no lights, no air conditioning, etc., people in the affected areas who bought an electric car have no transportation.


12 posted on 07/04/2012 4:36:59 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

LOL! What a bunch of wimps.

This is the gentlest of breezes compared to what they would be experiencing if the derecho had been an EMP.

Obviously these folks were not prepared. Maybe now they will get that way. Nah, prolly not.


13 posted on 07/04/2012 4:42:48 PM PDT by upchuck (FACEBOOK... Share pointless stuff with friends you don't know. Beg for intrusion into your life.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

I bet they got the power turned on at the White House right away, all while others in the area suffer.


14 posted on 07/04/2012 4:43:37 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Let wind power save them.

Give them algae.


15 posted on 07/04/2012 4:45:20 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

On October 27, 2006, we had a massive ice storm in the Buffalo, New York area.
I personally had no electricity, phone, cable, or heat for 14 days and it was cold outside.
Five days is a long time, but lots of peoole have done without for lots longer time.


16 posted on 07/04/2012 4:46:25 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Repeal Obamacare, the CITIZENSHIP TAX)
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To: Uncle Slayton

Wouldn’t make a bit of difference.
They have multiple level backup generator power.


17 posted on 07/04/2012 4:46:37 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: GreenHornet
"In addition to having no lights, no air conditioning, etc., people in the affected areas who bought an electric car have no transportation."

And for those with electric well pumps - no running water.

18 posted on 07/04/2012 4:51:17 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

but relocating them underground incurs huge costs

Well yea if you do it in one big project. Break it up into manageable pieces. Only do as much as you can afford in one year. If it takes 50 years to do it so be it but get started. It’s a worthwhile project.


19 posted on 07/04/2012 4:54:22 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
I don’tsee the problem These things need to be “replaced”
Sewer lines
gas lines
water lines
electric lines
cable lines
phone lines
20 posted on 07/04/2012 4:54:41 PM PDT by Domangart
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
I don’t see the problem These things need to be “replaced”
Sewer lines
gas lines
water lines
electric lines
cable lines
phone lines
21 posted on 07/04/2012 4:54:50 PM PDT by Domangart
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

This just shows how unprepared we are for these type of events. God help us if we ever get hit with an emp or the entire power grid fails.


22 posted on 07/04/2012 4:59:06 PM PDT by eak3
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To: Domangart

Bet O’Malley is kicking himself now that any funds he stole from the people went to free higher education for illegals. /hahaha.... now that’s funny right there I tell you.


23 posted on 07/04/2012 4:59:06 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (ABO 2012)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Anybody that lives in DC is most likely a weak whining leftie. Out in the Virginia/Maryland suburbs, a few are prepared, but many have little clue how to survive when something nasty happens. If you haven’t left Maryland, or moved further out in Virginia, do it now.


24 posted on 07/04/2012 5:00:10 PM PDT by alarm rider (I took the pledge, I will never vote for another RINO, not now, not ever.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
With memories of other extended outages fresh in the minds of many of the 1.26 million customers who still lack electricity, some question whether the delivery of power is more precarious than it used to be. The storms that began Friday killed 24 people in seven states and the District of Columbia.

But preppers are kooks and terrorists, right?

eyes rolling...

.

25 posted on 07/04/2012 5:16:03 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Uncle Slayton

The Pree-zee likes it under 70 dee-grees, if I remember a stupid interview from way back when.

Has anybody heard from Gore lately? You’d think he whip the...RIGHT! IT’S GLOBAL WARMING! thang out about now.

Hmmmmm....Old Algore has been quiet lately....Wonder what crap is going to come out. Quite the scumball that guy!


26 posted on 07/04/2012 5:20:56 PM PDT by Pigsley
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

People have become too used to air conditioning and always being at 77 degrees.


27 posted on 07/04/2012 5:23:57 PM PDT by crusty old prospector
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
but relocating them underground incurs huge costs

Remind me which shovel ready projects the Stimulus money was spent on? Did it all just get corrupted away?


28 posted on 07/04/2012 5:36:18 PM PDT by magooey (The Mandate of Heaven resides in the hearts of men.)
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To: danamco
No way the insurance companies will treat the inside the beltway denizens like they treated Floridians! Why? Well, we Floridians don't make the rules that control the insurance companies do we?
29 posted on 07/04/2012 5:45:46 PM PDT by Nip (TANSTAAFL and BOHICA)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

How many trillions of dollars have we spent on FEMA since Katrina?

Just imagine if a really major catastrophe hits us.


30 posted on 07/04/2012 6:18:16 PM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

“as much as $15 million per mile of buried line - and that gets passed onto consumers.”

Underground lines are $15 MILLION a mile??

That is absolutely! insane and ridiculous!


31 posted on 07/04/2012 6:42:29 PM PDT by battletank
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To: battletank

Union labor rates
Featherbedding
OSHA
EPA
bribes to local pols
millions to attorneys to negotiate right of way contracts

yadda yadda


32 posted on 07/04/2012 6:45:25 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Venturer

Potomac Edison had me up in about six hours.


33 posted on 07/04/2012 8:06:17 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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To: Rumplemeyer

You might want to consider the cost to ratepayers. Here’s a report on recent estimates to do just what you’re suggesting:

http://www.newhampshire.com/article/20111106/NEWS02/711069975

Since all these estimates for public works projects ALWAYS end up being on the low side, let me ask you this: If you were offered to have your lines buried, would you put, oh, $75K+ where your mouth is? Would your neighbors? Because it’s an “all or nothing” proposition.

Yea, I thought not. Americans are too goddamn cheap to buy consumer products under $20 that were made in the US, preferring some piece of crap made in China, and you’re going to tell me with a straight face that your neighbors are going to pony up 50+ large to bury their power lines?

And then let’s assume you put only the local distribution underground - you still have higher voltage regional transmission lines to put underground, otherwise you end up with power outages from upstream failures. OK, so what’s involved in burying higher voltage transmission lines?

http://sonoran.org/images/stories/PowerLine/Resource-Library/psc_wind_underground_electric_transmission_lines.pdf

Furthermore, if you think repairing above-ground transmission lines is expensive... heh. If you’ve not seen the complexity of repairing a below-ground transmission line, then you might want to check into it before hopping on the “bury the lines” bandwagon.


34 posted on 07/04/2012 11:12:52 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: danamco
The spoiled beltway brats did not care a squat when we in Florida were out of power for weeks some times montha. I hope the home insurance company will treat them the SAME way they treated us!!!

I think our power folks have beter abilities and work ethics - they had most of us up in 3-4 days after Katrina and Katrina made what happened up north look like an April shower.

We imported a bunch of help and I saw a convoy of power trucks heading east on I-10 the other day. Maybe they'll get it under control with some of us southerners helping out.

35 posted on 07/05/2012 3:07:23 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: Rumplemeyer
Lol! Now that you mention it...I did NOT notice there were no/extremely few of them in NYC. We have them all over here in VA, hence the weather problems. They happen more then I'd like.
36 posted on 07/05/2012 7:57:16 AM PDT by Anvilhead (Why do we elect politicians when the desire for the job disqualifies you for it?)
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To: Rumplemeyer
Grow some balls and call their bluff, it would put a lot of people to work...

And put a lot of people OUT of work ...

Come out here to West Virginia and try to sell your New York Snake Oil ...

37 posted on 07/05/2012 8:07:39 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Truth29
And for those with electric well pumps - no running water.

It's called a "gasoline powered generator".

You can buy one off the shelf at your local home improvement store.

38 posted on 07/05/2012 8:09:45 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

And the required wiring and transfer switch to hook up said generator to a well pump. It is not just a matter of plugging it in. Take your sarcasm somewhere else.


39 posted on 07/05/2012 8:20:25 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Putting lines underground makes a lighting strike easier. I have been in many homes after a major storm with underground power lines. It destroys more items in the home.


40 posted on 07/05/2012 8:25:15 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: Truth29

I suggest that the sooner you get started on it, the sooner it will be done.


41 posted on 07/05/2012 8:32:16 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: crusty old prospector

You are right.

Hopefully I will still have a choice in America’s future to keep my living space at 72 degrees year round.


42 posted on 07/05/2012 8:32:35 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Feel free to send the $$ right over.


43 posted on 07/05/2012 8:34:06 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: ArrogantBustard
How pray tell would putting in miles of conduit and manholes, cable, transformers and consumer connections, put people out of work?
44 posted on 07/05/2012 8:54:15 AM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: Truth29
I have no idea of your particular financial situation ...

Portable gasoline generators in the 5kW to 7kW capacity range cost between $600 and $900 at Lowes. That enough to run your well pump OR your refrigerator, freezer, and some lights and fans.

I'm not sure what an electrician would charge today to install an auxiliary breaker panel with an isolation switch ... I recall it being a few hundred $$$ several years ago.

I know the 0bamanation economy sucks, and money is tight ... but I do seriously suggest, and not just to you personally, that the sooner one gets started (whether "started" means setting aside the money, or looking up "electricians" in the phone book) the sooner the job is done.

The demonicRats' and environmental fascists' war on coal is not going to increase the amount of electric power generated in MD, VA, WV, nor is it going to reduce the probability of load-induced service interruptions, nor is it going to improve the utilities' ability to maintain infrastructure.

45 posted on 07/05/2012 9:04:01 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NVDave
I know all about underground utilities, My family has been in the Heavy Construction business for 100 years, we have worked for Con-Ed, PSE&G & JCP&L. The maintenance of underground duct systems in much cheaper and cost effective than areal systems. The underground systems are not effected nearly as much as areal systems by weather.

As for cost, the PUC determines amortization of the cost over its life time, it is not billed as a surcharge. And give it a rest on the constant rant about union wages and feather bedding. You come out and do what we do and tell me my men are overpaid, they make a good living and work damn hard for it.

46 posted on 07/05/2012 9:08:54 AM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: Rumplemeyer

Who’s gonna pay for it?


47 posted on 07/05/2012 9:09:41 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Points well taken, but you are well behind the times for the cost to get the work legally done with permits, certifications, panel with isolation switch and necessary circuits for house central systems in the Obamaland regulatory regime.
48 posted on 07/05/2012 9:30:36 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Truth29
And the required wiring and transfer switch to hook up said generator to a well pump.

All of which took me about 90 minutes to do after watching the video provided by the transfer switch manufacturer. And I am most definetely NOT an electrician.

49 posted on 07/05/2012 9:39:06 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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To: Truth29
but you are well behind the times for the cost to get the work legally done with permits, certifications, panel with isolation switch and necessary circuits for house central systems in the Obamaland regulatory regime.

Bullcrap. I actually got three quotes from Union electricians. The highest one was $350.00. But after watching the instructional video I decided to do it myself. No permit required according to my Village Hall.

So quit whining and get busy.

50 posted on 07/05/2012 9:41:50 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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