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Truth about Operation Wide Receiver important to determine
Examiner.com ^ | 6/27/12 | David Codrea

Posted on 06/27/2012 8:10:39 PM PDT by Nachum

Counter-arguments to charges by Obama administration supporters that Fast and Furious “gunwalking” began in the Bush-era Operation Wide Receiver program have been gaining wider attention over the past few days, with numerous tips and inquiries being sent by readers to Gun Rights Examiner for comment. Just as with many of the wrong assumptions being promulgated by administration supporters, there are some misconceptions being promoted by its detractors that require clarification if the goal is to understand what happened, as opposed to merely spreading a “perception becomes reality” meme.

Among these misconceptions being repeated: that no Wide Receiver guns “walked” to Mexico because they were all controlled deliveries; that no one was killed; that the Mexican government was fully informed; that RFID tracking devices were placed in all the guns; and that the program was shut down at the first sign of danger.

Gun dealer and writer Mike Detty was a central figure in Wide Receiver, who, in his capacity as confidential informant for ATF, sold 450 rifles and handguns to suspected traffickers. As Paul Barrett reported in Bloomberg Businessweek, “The vast majority of the guns were never recovered by U.S. authorities.” This means control was not maintained on all deliveries, and it is impossible to tell if any people have been killed, and if so, how many. Still, it's crucial to note Detty was told that surveillance would be maintained, and he took great personal risk to assist law enforcement.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2deadfeds; 300deadmexicans; atf; banglist; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; ice; murdergate; obama; operation; receiver; truth; wide
FYI
1 posted on 06/27/2012 8:10:42 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

The media explains why it has not covered the Gunwalker scandal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE


2 posted on 06/27/2012 8:11:44 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum
The trail is getting hotter. The MSM is in full Kookaid Koverup Mode.


3 posted on 06/27/2012 8:21:20 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...

Codrea.
‘Nuff said. Ping.


4 posted on 06/27/2012 8:22:20 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: Travis McGee

Nothing they say or do can put this djinn back in the bottle.


5 posted on 06/27/2012 8:25:26 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: MestaMachine

Interesting new info. I never really credited the RFID story, and wondered what the truth really was.


6 posted on 06/27/2012 8:25:26 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: MestaMachine

Does a scandal happen in the USSA if the MSM is playing the part of Pravda?


7 posted on 06/27/2012 8:26:22 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: MestaMachine
“I've been saying it to anyone who will listen,” Detty added, “Bill Newell [Phoenix Special Agent in Charge] was politically motivated. He saw himself running ATF one day and thought that he'd score points by bringing big headlines and obtaining increased funding for his agency. Despite the poor results of OWR no one at DOJ stopped him or even admonished him. Why wouldn't he do it again on a grander level when he had Dennis Burke (one of the authors of the original 'assault weapons' ban and aide to Janet Napolitano when she was governor of Arizona) as his US Attorney? There is only one conclusion that could be made and that is American guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico and in Mexican hands here in the U.S. would be the ammunition they needed to push for more gun control.”
8 posted on 06/27/2012 8:28:54 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Only the cartels were different. los zetas vs sinaloa.


9 posted on 06/27/2012 8:30:01 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: Travis McGee

When my liberal friends say that Bush started Operation Wide Receiver, I reply, “Then let’s release all of the documentation. Let’s find out who is guilty of engineering this tragedy. And if it’s Bush’s fault, as you insist it is, let’s prove it and throw him in jail.”

That always shuts them up.


10 posted on 06/27/2012 8:31:15 PM PDT by Monitor ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-front for the urge to rule it." - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Nachum; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; LMAO; ...

Great post on Dems F+F lies.
In fact Maddow is on Maher (HBO) right now repeating the same lies that this post exposes. Maddow is really good at filbustering with her canned talking points that flip reality upsidedown.

I have to turn the channel fast, that show makes me sick. I got 6 free months of HBO and CM.


11 posted on 06/27/2012 8:31:53 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: Travis McGee

The Waco disaster was also a plan, by the ATF, to get headlines for increased ATF funding.


12 posted on 06/27/2012 8:32:10 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Nachum

BTTT


13 posted on 06/27/2012 8:37:08 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Ineptocracy; the Obama way.)
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To: Brown Deer; LucyT; bcsco

More information o Wide Receiver


14 posted on 06/27/2012 8:41:18 PM PDT by hoosiermama ( Obama: " born in Kenya.".. he's lying now or then?)
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To: Nachum

Tom Gresham Discusses the matter.

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/d/8/f/d8fb1aa6df0771d4/120624guntalkA.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cc873fd4cf556c29&c_id=4646548


15 posted on 06/27/2012 8:46:14 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: All

Sheryll Atkinson has some of the story wrong on Wide Receiver.

All of the guns in wide receiver were TRACKED.
NONE of the guns in F&F were.


16 posted on 06/27/2012 8:56:54 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: All

The entire show 6/24/12 parts a, b and c.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/


17 posted on 06/27/2012 8:59:35 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Nachum; Bodhi1

Rush breaks down the two ops really good on this vid.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2898390/posts


18 posted on 06/27/2012 9:09:53 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: Travis McGee
I heard from a source inside another agency that the tracking efforts were initially successful. The cartels realized that they were being targeted too well to be just dumb luck and took countermeasures to negate the tagged guns. The project was then cancelled.

Another huge difference was that the Mexicans were aware and allowed the movement of the guns across the border.

19 posted on 06/27/2012 9:15:26 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Nachum

Thanks for posting the article.

“Gun dealer and writer Mike Detty was a central figure in Wide Receiver, who, in his capacity as confidential informant for ATF, sold 450 rifles and handguns to suspected traffickers.”

So... a gun dealer who got caught selling illegal arms for a ‘hobby’ was forced to do it for a living, so the CIA could have another avenue for arms that they use to support various factions and sides in Mexico, South America and ‘friends’.

AND THAT IS THEIR DEFENSE ?


20 posted on 06/27/2012 10:17:58 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Nachum

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE:

Forget Wide Receiver / Gun Walker / Gun Runner / Fast + Furious.

The REAL ISSUE is that our government has CONCEDED the state of ARIZONA to the leading Mexican Cartel. The FEDS are already denying any support for border enforcement...in Arizona.

There are signs in Arizona warning citizens to stay away as they are smuggling corridors.

Obama and Calderon could not control the Cartels, so they picked one side to support. That is what they were meeting about, and that is what has happened. Agent Terry got killed in crossfire between various agencies undercover men who had ‘infiltrated’ the cartels, using guns that the ATF forced dealers to sell to undercover CIA agents (posing as gun mules) who were spreading the ‘wealth’ so to speak to various foreign nations. They are currently supplying the (wrong) side in Syria with weapons.

The CIA was doing this ‘stuff’ during the Bush Administration, and the Kennedy Administration, and they continue now.

Bush didn’t give them a state to use for a corridor. Obama has.


21 posted on 06/27/2012 10:29:31 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2
So... a gun dealer who got caught selling illegal arms for a ‘hobby’ was forced to do it for a living,

Probably a setup, too.

Recall, it was Federal agents who indicated to Randy Weaver where they wanted the shotgun cut off (iirc, 1/8 inch too short to be legal), and then came back offering to ignore the charges if he would be an informant on local separatists. Weaver wouldn't play along and rat out his neighbors...

22 posted on 06/28/2012 4:56:53 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Travis McGee
Interesting new info. I never really credited the RFID story, and wondered what the truth really was.

I've been questioning it as well. What good is RFID unless you are passing the guns through one of those readers at walmart? Others have said they used GPS. That dosn't really make sense either, as GPS is a reciever, not a transmitter, among other things.

23 posted on 06/28/2012 6:02:22 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: mylife
All of the guns in wide receiver were TRACKED.

How?

24 posted on 06/28/2012 6:04:54 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: zeugma

Exactly. It’s a problem of physics: battery power, range etc.


25 posted on 06/28/2012 6:13:10 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: zeugma
All of the guns in wide receiver were TRACKED.

How?

Rush has been explaining this for the past few days. RFID or GPS chips were on every weapon. When the cartels figured that part out and started removing them, Operation Wide Receiver was stopped.

26 posted on 06/28/2012 6:57:26 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: Arrowhead1952
RFID or GPS chips were on every weapon.

I'm not sure how that explains anything.Do you know what the range of an RFID chip is? We're talking 30 feet max, and that requires a really sensitive reader to excite the chip and read the SN off of it. A GPS receiver would tell the gun where it was, but that doesn't help either, as it is a receiver, not a transmitter. Since the RFID reader would know where it was, what the heck use is a GPS device?

Also, in saying that these "chips" were on each weapon, are you saying that the government was providing these modified guns to the dealers? Where exactly would one install a GPS chip? Where would it get its power from? If it also had some kind of transmitter, where was its power source? How much range did it have?

You see, someone just waving their hands and invoking RFID and GPS as some kind of magic doesn't really work in the real world. In order for this to make sense, we need less magic, and more actual facts.

27 posted on 06/28/2012 10:45:14 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: zeugma

The weapons were fitted with transmitters and the Mexican government knew about the program. They would trace the signals when the weapons came across the border and where they were headed.

I remember a thread not long ago that had a lot of facts with links, but did not reply or bookmark it for future reference.


28 posted on 06/28/2012 11:56:24 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: Arrowhead1952

If you see that again, I’d appreciate a ping, because so far, what I’ve read about this just doesn’t make any sense.


29 posted on 06/28/2012 12:21:47 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: zeugma

radio transmitters


30 posted on 06/28/2012 4:21:55 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Nachum
Among these misconceptions being repeated: that no Wide Receiver guns “walked” to Mexico because they were all controlled deliveries; that no one was killed; that the Mexican government was fully informed; that RFID tracking devices were placed in all the guns; and that the program was shut down at the first sign of danger.

“The vast majority of the guns were never recovered by U.S. authorities.” This means control was not maintained on all deliveries, and it is impossible to tell if any people have been killed, and if so, how many. ..."

That is not the point. "Walking" is defined as no intention to keep track of or interdict the guns being smuggled. That is explicitly said by these four ATF agents in their sworn deposition to the House committee.

The Department of Justice ’ s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF Agents

(above) Four ATF field agents testify under oath that they "never even heard of intentionally letting guns "walk" before F&F."

“I've been saying it to anyone who will listen,” Detty added, “Bill Newell [Phoenix Special Agent in Charge] was politically motivated. He saw himself running ATF one day and thought that he'd score points by bringing big headlines and obtaining increased funding for his agency. ..."

If that is all there is to it, if Newell is the sole progenitor of F&F and the gun "walking" tactics, then why wouldn't Holder have given his head on a silver platter to the House committee a long time ago? Holder could have cited Newell's actions from the Bush administration onward and let Newell twist in the wind as a rogue bureaucrat who greedily twisted DoJ-ATF policy for years.

31 posted on 06/29/2012 7:34:41 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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