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Method to Track Firearm Use Is Stalled by Foes (Microstamping again)
NY Times ^ | June 12, 2012 | ERICA GOODE

Posted on 06/13/2012 5:16:37 PM PDT by neverdem

Identifying the firearm used in a crime is one of the biggest challenges for criminal investigators. But what if a shell casing picked up at a murder scene could immediately be tracked to the gun that fired it?

A technique that uses laser technology and stamps a numeric code on shell casings can do just that. But the technology, called microstamping, has been swept up in the larger national debate over gun laws and Second Amendment rights, and efforts to require gun makers to use it have stalled across the nation.

“I think it is one of these things in law enforcement that would just take us from the Stone Age to the jet age in an instant,” said Commissioner Frederick Bealefeld III of the Baltimore Police Department. “I just can’t comprehend the opposition to it.”

But legislation proposed in several states to require manufacturers of semiautomatic weapons to use the technology has met with fierce opposition. Opponents, including the gun industry and the National Rifle Association, argue that microstamping is ineffective and its cost prohibitive. They say the proposed system would unfairly focus on legal gun owners when most crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns.

The issue has become so heated that in New York, where the State Assembly is expected to debate a microstamping bill as early as Wednesday, one gun maker, the Remington Arms Company, has threatened to pull its business out of the state if the bill becomes law...

--snip--

The National Shooting Sports Foundation has estimated that microstamping would increase the cost of a firearm by “well over $200,” according to a fact sheet it issued, but advocates say the cost to manufacturers would be less than $12 a gun — a cap imposed as a condition of the New York Assembly bill...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; microstamping

1 posted on 06/13/2012 5:16:46 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
“I think it is one of these things in law enforcement that would just take us from the Stone Age to the jet age in an instant,” said Commissioner Frederick Bealefeld III of the Baltimore Police Department. “I just can’t comprehend the opposition to it.”

I think you don't think at all, fool. I've got bigger concerns than what you might think about making your job easier

2 posted on 06/13/2012 5:22:29 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: neverdem

Our nation would be helped a lot more by stamping and tracking Leftists. Better yet, why not set up registration so we can own them. These people are enemies of the state, pure and simple.

1. They loathe our Constitution
2. They loathe Christian morals
3. They loathe our Founding Fathers
4. They loathe our system of governance and want to replace it with that of the old U. S. S. R.
5. They even open talk about killing Conservative politicians
6. Some of them are terrorists, or actually ‘understand’ why terrorists do what they do


3 posted on 06/13/2012 5:22:29 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Republicanism: Y1 Rant Y2 Rant Y3 Rant Y4, Oh nevermind, vote for him anyway. Rinse & Repeat!)
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To: neverdem; Joe Brower; marktwain

4 posted on 06/13/2012 5:23:11 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: neverdem

Lots of ways for criminals to negate this:

Police your brass
Use a revolver
Have a brass catch bag attached to the ejector port
Dremel the # off

to say nothing of:

Knives,
Swords,
Baseball bats
Bricks
Chains
Spears
Arrows
Axes
Etc, etc, etc...


6 posted on 06/13/2012 5:30:25 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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“But what if a shell casing picked up at a murder scene could immediately be tracked to the gun that fired it?”

Shell casings aren’t ejected by revolvers, and microstamping is easily defeated by emery cloth or a fingernail file...
Any other concerns they have before they further inconvenience me with their prattle?


7 posted on 06/13/2012 5:30:25 PM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: neverdem

How long would it take to erase said microstamping from the firing pin with a piece of crocus cloth? Anybody who thinks a criminal wouldn’t do it when most of their weapons are illegal already is smoking something.


8 posted on 06/13/2012 5:32:44 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Darksheare

If it’s such a wonderful idea why don’t they
start off with the police, micro stamp their guns.
They are law abiding, they won’t mind.


9 posted on 06/13/2012 5:33:13 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: neverdem

From the article:

“Mr. Keane and other opponents point to two early studies finding that the full numeric code could be read only about half the time on shell casings. In addition, they say, criminals could file off the code or replace the firing pin. And the technology would not apply to revolvers, which do not discharge cartridge casings.”

It would take about 5 seconds to file the tip of the firing pin. Or you could replace it...cheap - about $7 at Midway.com.


10 posted on 06/13/2012 5:40:19 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: neverdem

“Identifying the firearm used in a crime is one of the biggest challenges for criminal investigators”

Why do they think I care that cops wish their jobs were easier? They’ve never run a series of stories about how I want a law that says I only have to come in four days a week.


11 posted on 06/13/2012 5:48:00 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: paul51

“it is one of these things in law enforcement that would just take us from the Stone Age to the jet age in an instant”

“I have seen the future and it works!”

-Lincoln Steffens, journalist-socialist, to Bernard Baruch, Lord of Finance, after visiting the new Soviet Union


12 posted on 06/13/2012 5:51:02 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: neverdem; All
First of all, spent brass is not referred to as a "casing," or "casings." It's a shell "case."

.

The term "casing" refers to sausage "casings."

.

Second, these morons should understand that using a revolver does not eject brass, and it only takes a few seconds to file off the firing pin micro-stamp.


13 posted on 06/13/2012 5:52:34 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Common sense isn't common anymore.)
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To: BwanaNdege

“Lots of ways for criminals to negate this...”

Actually, it’s much easier:

1). Steal a gun or buy one illegally.
2). Throw it away after you shoot someone with it.

BAM! Crime marches on.


14 posted on 06/13/2012 5:54:08 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Cobra64
The term "casing" refers to sausage "casings."

Bloomberg wants those stamped and tracked too.

15 posted on 06/13/2012 5:57:37 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: DoughtyOne; All

The concept that the government could or should only “allow” certain people to buy guns stands the very concept of American jurisprudence on its head. It presumes that the government knows all, controls all, and should be doing so. It is wrong and ineffective. It is the opposite of preventing criminals from possessing guns.

It is crazy to set up a huge expensive bureaucratic system, require everyone to jump though hoops and prove that they are *not* criminals in order to try, ineffectively, to prevent the few individuals who are not responsible, from having legal access to guns. This is a failed paradigm, and it should be abandoned. To accept the idea that the all gun sales should be monitored by the government, and only allowed to those it deems satisfactory is fundamentally wrong.

The entire idea of the enterprise has always been the death of a thousand cuts, where the restrictions on who can buy, and where, and how and what are continually increased until the number of gun owners is reduced to political insignificance.


16 posted on 06/13/2012 6:14:45 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: neverdem

Us-against-them control freaks are getting crazier, as the debt regime slides on. They can microstamp my __, but it won’t give them any kind of edge. They and their other bipartisan, socialist friends have much to hide, and many of their immoral activities are being seen now.


17 posted on 06/13/2012 6:16:29 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Mr Rogers

When Orlando Florida and some other localities started robo-calling businesses 20 times a day that put up the little roadside advertising signs, my first thought was to get some signs made with my competitors business and phone number on them, My second thought is that it would be simple to go to the local gun range and pick up some spent microstamped casings to leave a crime scene after picking up mine. What stupid idiot there are in gooberment.


18 posted on 06/13/2012 6:17:40 PM PDT by hotshot (editor of dumbdumberdumbest.com)
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To: neverdem

said Commissioner Frederick Bealefeld III of the Baltimore Police Department. “I just can’t comprehend the opposition to it.”

Hitler & that other Socialist party did but they rammed it through anyway.


19 posted on 06/13/2012 6:19:38 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: neverdem

Another example of hyped incompetent ideas by incompetent reporters that are probably told by Bloomberg and the anti-gun cabal how and what to say.

I do agree that the first adopters of this foolish concept should be law enforcement as a pilot program.

This scheme identifies only a casing at a scene that in reality could be salted so as to set up someone that is innocent. It does not begin to tie the actual rifling and ballistic patterns of the bullet or shards that caused death with a particular firearm.


20 posted on 06/13/2012 6:20:01 PM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: paul51

As we know, all gang bangers always go through the proper legal channels to obtain a gun they plan on using in a murder.


21 posted on 06/13/2012 6:29:58 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: Mr Rogers
It would take about 5 seconds to file the tip of the firing pin. Or you could replace it...cheap - about $7 at Midway.com.

In the versions of legislation that I've seen, messing with the micro-stamping is a crime. So if you have a gun whose paperwork indicates that it was micro-stamp when sold, and the micro-stamping is now illegible (whether from filing it off, or just normal wear), then you are in trouble.

To the gun grabbers, the value of this is that it provides yet another way to give legal troubles to gun owners.

22 posted on 06/13/2012 6:31:23 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: hotshot

“My second thought is that it would be simple to go to the local gun range and pick up some spent microstamped casings to leave a crime scene after picking up mine.”

Excellent! You commit the murder, and then 20 citizens with air tight alibis are ‘proven’ to be guilty.

I can see it now: “Your honor, 20 guys living in another state, who have never met each other, banded together and committed the murder...”


23 posted on 06/13/2012 6:31:39 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: PapaBear3625

“In the versions of legislation that I’ve seen, messing with the micro-stamping is a crime.”

Yes, and criminals wouldn’t commit a crime like that...murder, maybe, but NOT filing a microstamp in violation of the law!

This is just another plan to harass the innocent while letting the guilty do as they please.


24 posted on 06/13/2012 6:35:32 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: Mr Rogers

Only if you did not know much about firearms, would this idea seem sensible. It sure will be easy to frame someone else. Just reload their brass and viola! They become the perp.


25 posted on 06/13/2012 6:40:29 PM PDT by Brownie63
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To: BwanaNdege
Criminals have a much easier method of avoiding this nonsense: Stolen guns & stolen ammo.
26 posted on 06/13/2012 6:46:18 PM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Mr Rogers
What makes me crazy is that the BATF will come after innocent gun owners and gun store owners over paperwork errors, but the Supreme Court has held that felons are exempt from registration laws, because they violate their Fifth Amendment rights.
27 posted on 06/13/2012 6:50:15 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: neverdem

I have a lot of firearms that don’t squirt casings everyhere.


28 posted on 06/13/2012 7:09:48 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: neverdem

Liberals and other Nanny-State control freaks aren’t comfortable unless they know the government is monitoring and controlling the activities of everyone else.

The intrusion into our personal freedom is past the unbearable stage and getting worse daily.

Drones watching us from the sky, cameras and facial recognition software watching every street corner, schoolkids can’t bring a home packed lunch to school, shutting down little kid’s lemonade stands, telling us what size softdrink we can buy, telling retaurants what kind of ingredients they can use and how big their servings can be, GPS tracking devices in vehicles and telephones.

How long before we are required to have ID chips and GPS devices implanted at birth?

The only things they don’t want to control are the nations borders, illegal aliens, fraudulent voting, pedophilia, pre-teen sex, welfare cheating, dope smoking.....


29 posted on 06/13/2012 7:28:48 PM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: neverdem

Wasn’t ‘ballistic fingerprinting’ supposed to do the same thing? And didn’t that solve exactly zero cases in the end?


30 posted on 06/13/2012 8:03:21 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem

**A technique that uses laser technology and stamps a numeric code on shell casings can do just that.**

An application of emory cloth or lapping compound will fix that.


31 posted on 06/13/2012 8:09:29 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: neverdem

I can see some perverse criminal with a case of replacement firing pins ... a new firing pin for each new crime!


32 posted on 06/13/2012 8:30:02 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: neverdem

More anti-gun bullsh*t from some pen pusher who never bothered to do her homework.

Criminals would simply use revolvers, while all the rest of the nation bore the cost of yet another expensive - and utterly worthless - bureaucracy.

Let’s hope this trivial and nonsensical notion is dead in the water, as it should be.


33 posted on 06/14/2012 12:56:05 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: neverdem

Bull-hockey! It is backdoor registration. Nothing less.


34 posted on 06/14/2012 5:04:47 AM PDT by Peet (Everything has an end -- only the sausage has two.)
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To: tet68

Exactly.
There have been murders commited with police firearms.
I’m sure they’d love to set an example and lead by example.


35 posted on 06/14/2012 5:25:16 AM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: Cobra64; Travis McGee; DoughtyOne

“...Second, these morons should understand that using a revolver does not eject brass,...”

Oh, they understand all right. Calling them “morons”, “dumbasses”, etc., is a mistake.

They know exactly what they’re doing. There’s ZERO ignorance on the part of the people dreaming this crap up.

If Revolvers negate it, they they can try to ban revolvers; it gives them a ready-made excuse to try and outlaw a common, ubiquitous, and relatively inexpensive type of firearm.

If they can succeed in banning revolvers (a class of firearms, if you will), the next step is banning another class, that being semi-autos.

Look what they tried back in 1994 with the so-called “assault weapons” ban; if it LOOKED like an evil black rifle, it WAS an evil black rifle. That was a failed attempt at banning an entire class of rifles and longarms. Thankfully, it failed, but only because we kicked and screamed and didn’t quit.

It’s all just one more step to them. Three steps forward, one step back.

We must absolutely NOT give in to ANYTHING they other side wants - ever. It’s suicidal to compromise with people who want to leave you helpless.

Our answer should and must always be “Go-F-Yourself” when they bring up ANYTHING regarding firearms.

And if politicians on “our” side of the aisle go wobbly on us, they need to be made to understand that there will be election repercussions, swift, and immediate, up to and including recall efforts where such are available.

Failing “G-F-Y”, our answer should always be “Molon Labe”.


36 posted on 06/14/2012 8:57:46 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: neverdem
Yeah an unproven and easily defeated technology is the answer to all of their perceived problems...

Seems to be their theme for pretty much everything these days.

37 posted on 06/14/2012 9:00:02 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: marktwain

I agree.


38 posted on 06/14/2012 2:05:26 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Republicanism: Y1 Rant Y2 Rant Y3 Rant Y4, Oh nevermind, vote for him anyway. Rinse & Repeat!)
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To: NFHale

Good comments NFHale. I agree with you. I would only add that every time the Left files for more legislation, we should file ten times that many repeals to current legislation.


39 posted on 06/14/2012 2:21:47 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Republicanism: Y1 Rant Y2 Rant Y3 Rant Y4, Oh nevermind, vote for him anyway. Rinse & Repeat!)
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To: neverdem; All
But what if a shell casing picked up at a murder scene could immediately be tracked to the gun that fired it?

Well,... nothing, as this would only be useful if all the guns were registered and none were stolen. As the first is politically suicidal and abhorrent to free people, and the second has never been preventable, even in prisons, the idea is simply a way to promote a citizen disarmament scheme.

40 posted on 06/14/2012 5:53:29 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: paul51

The Commish needs to understand that the prospect of potentially requiring extra-judicial resolution of matters such as this in HIS OWN department

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/06/07/lawsuit-architect-in-diabetic-shock-beaten-by-multiple-officers-pepper-sprayed-and-repeatedly-tasered-before-dying/

might substantially be impaired if We the People were required to participate is such schemes.......or maybe he already DOES understand....? in which case his feigning indignation and surprise is a dare?!!!


41 posted on 06/14/2012 6:00:04 PM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: Darksheare

ZIP GUNS leave no marks at all and are easily built by homeowners and their kids. New Yorkers pretend any of this hitech stuff is meaningful. No one is fooled.


42 posted on 06/14/2012 7:11:07 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: neverdem

What if, what if as soon as a confidential source spoke to a journalist, he was identified on the internet?


43 posted on 06/14/2012 7:44:55 PM PDT by GOPJ (Take your little hammer, little sickle and your scary red signs with a fist on it, and go home...)
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