Posted on 06/02/2012 11:53:04 AM PDT by Olog-hai
For nearly 30 years he was the pharaoh-like ruler whose word was law; the plunderer of billions of pounds of government money and controller of Egypt’s brutal police state.
On Saturday night Hosni Mubarak began a new life as a convicted murderer.
A broken and humiliated man of 84, he was flown by helicopter to Torah prison—where many of his enemies had once been jailed—just two hours after hearing a Cairo judge pronounce a life sentence on him for complicity in the murder of 850 protesters.
He appeared to be in tears and at first refused to leave the plane as he realized that he had not been taken to the military hospital where he had spent most of the nine months since his trial began.
Amid rumors that he might have suffered a fresh heart attack, he was on Saturday evening beginning a life sentence in the hospital wing of the Cairo prison—the first leader toppled by his own people in the Arab Spring to attend his own trial and be incarcerated in one of his own prisons.
Also convicted alongside him was Habib al-Adly, the former interior minister and a loyal Mubarak ally, who had been in charge of the nation’s internal security as police cracked down on demonstrators in Cairo’s Tahrir Square, and in town and cities across Egypt, during a week of intense violence at the end of January last year. …
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
All the more reason why the Assad regime in Syria will dig in hard and not let loose of power.
For years, Mubarak was a stalwart US ally and a democratic leader in his country and now a new regime who was perhaps murdered millions of Christians in Egypt have sentenced him to life in prison for the murder of a mere 800 miscreants who took to the Cairo streets in violent protest.
I agree.
Mubarak was keeping the lid on those people, just like the Shah in Iran was keeping the lid on the terrorists there. If there were “democratic” elections at any time before 1/25/11, the Muslim Brotherhood would have been voted into power far, far sooner—and they were trying to sidestep Mubarak’s ban on the MB by forming non-MB parties. People like Nasser, going way back, called themselves “national socialists”—and that seems to get lost in the liberal/leftist rewrite of history . . .
This is sad. Not that he was so great but because every evidence says things will be FAR WORSE in the future.
What do you mean?
We gave this guy tens of billions in U.S. tax dollars.
Exactly what I was thinking. Now the Egyptian people will be able to experience what a real tyranny of the worst kind is.
Ululate? Is that what they call it?
We gave this guy tens of billions in U.S. tax dollars.
What more did you want America to do?
(And of course, Carter called Khomeini a holy man instead of what he really was . . .)
.
And Bush called islam a ROP instead of what it really is.
Somehow we shy away from intelligent people when we elect a POTUS or perhaps intelligent people shy away from the presidency.
A lot of possible allies will note how the US abandoned him and note how we did the same with the Dr. Shakeel Afridi of Pakistan who helped us find Bin Laden. We should have done better.
The fact is that democracy is a terrible form of government for most of the world.
The guy is in his 80s and in bad health.
It’s not like he was going to be around for several more decades as a stabilizing influence.
IOW, things staying the same was not one of the options.
Most of the tyrannies in the present day have the nerve to call themselves “republics” as well, don’t forget. The biggest one was the USSR, the “R” standing for “republics” . . .
So you’re saying that allowing the terrorists to take over was an inevitable outcome that the USA should not have tried to forestall . . . ? I don’t understand.
We gave this guy tens of billions in U.S. tax dollars.
What more did you want America to do?
Why did you evade the question?
What more did you want America to do?
we should have gone in there just like we did Iraq and Afghanistan
That's exactly what I suspected.
Feel free to use your own money to prop up corrupt foreign dictators and catch a fight to go fight them if ya don't like them. The U.S. is broke, and tired of having our heads up the butts of every country on earth.
Now, go catch a flight to Egypt and give um hell.
I see you aren’t a hawkish conservative that wants to save his country money by keeping tyrants at bay and keeping shipping channels free for commerce and tourism. The idea of “propping up” and trying to pay others to do your fighting for you is a liberal idea, and not one I approve of for the record, but you seem obsessed with bringing it up repeatedly. Your assessment of Mubarak is exactly like Carter’s assessment of the Shah, again for the record, and it may just be that the media completely distorted his rule as it did the Shah’s rule. The liberals are set to continue to give “tens of billions” to the terrorists that replaced Mubarak too, just as there are multiple billions still going to the so-called “Palestinian” occupiers of Israel, but I don’t see any complaining out of you over that . . . but I guess I’ll wait until I get to hear what Mammon’s priests tell you to think on that matter.
A lot of comments seemed to imply that if we had supported him we had the option of things remaining more or less as they were, with Mubarak in power.
My only point is that this was not an option.
WE could probably have done a better job of influencing things, but in the final analysis it’s not our job to decide who runs Egypt. That’s up to the Egyptians.
A lot of comments seemed to imply that if we had supported him we had the option of things remaining more or less as they were, with Mubarak in power.
My only point is that this was not an option.
WE could probably have done a better job of influencing things, but in the final analysis it’s not our job to decide who runs Egypt. That’s up to the Egyptians.
BTW, how in hell ya think this dictator and his family came to have nearly 100 billion in personal fortune?
That’s like saying “it’s not up to us to decide who rules Germany—that’s up to the Germans” back in 1933. With all due respect. If you actually catch a cancer, you stop it from growing instead of allowing growth to continue . . .
I see you aren’t a hawkish conservative that wants to save his country money by keeping tyrants at bay
Oh gezzzz...What kind of BS is this?
With comments like this, I'd say it's a safe bet you are no military veteran. Right?
Why are you defending the Muslim Brotherhood and liberal propaganda?
I was waiting for you to compare WWII Germany with Egypt.
Why, if we don’t start bombing Egypt, they’ll take over the world.
Gak..
Why do you keep evading my questions?
Short of invading, occupying and ruling Germany in 1933, we had no particularly effective way to influence who ruled Germany.
Same goes today in Egypt. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have gone so well, do you really want to add Egypt to the list?
Egypt has a population almost three times that of Iraq, and a non-trivial army.
Since you apparently think we should be able to control who rules Egypt, what would your tactics be to gain such control? And are you aware that more or less by definition those who get control via our manipulation will not have the support of their people?
I guess you don’t see the parallels between Pan-Arabism and Pan-Germanism. Nasser did.
LOL!
Write your local corrupt Congressman, tell um you demand Egypt be bombed like we did Iraq, before Egypt can attack us.
It should only cost a trillion or two more tax dollars and maybe 3,000-8,000 dead Americans.
Another win win war!
I’d say it’s a safe bet you are no military veteran. Right?
It’s OK to answer...No need to evade the question.
“We gave this guy tens of billions in U.S. tax dollars.”
We did?
If you are thinking military aid, Foreign Military Funding (FMF) somehow ended up in his pocket, you are wrong.
FMF was deposited in the fed bank in Denver and was administered by US government Security Assistance Program Managers.
These SAPMs ran the various programs, ran the competitive bids to sell US gear to the Egyptians. The Egyptians did not make the selection, did not choose which contractor would be getting the contract. The US government did.
Then, when the contract was signed, the SAPM authorized payments in accordance with delivery schedules. The money in the Denver bank went from the bank directly to the contractor-—never leaving the US.
The US government SAPMs had oversight on this money and audits by DCMA were conducted regularly to ensure accounting was clear.
So, basically, the money never left the US and the US picked who won the contracts. Money was paid to the contractor by the SAPM—and the contractor had/has ZERO influence over who wins the bid. The Egyptians had ZERO influence over who would win the bid. The Egyptians never touched a penny of FMF. Not. A. Penny.
Mubarak’s ill-gotten gains came from his sleazy dealing with the commercial industry in Cairo, like shipping and banking.
Learn about FMS and FMF. See Post 37.
We turned on the Shah of Iran and look what the Iranians ended up with. Sometimes the known is better than the unknown.
Ya think this was all just legitimate business transactions, where Mubarak and his family, being insiders and a U.S. puppet, had nothing to do with it?
Is this what you're suggesting?
BTW, I never mentioned FMF.
BTW, if ya don’t think there is fraud/payoffs/influence peddling associated with Foreign Military Funding, you are very wrong.
I started my post by saying IF you were thinking FMF.
I made sure everyone understood FMF never made it to Egypt and was not part of his booty.
“Ya think this was all just legitimate business transactions,”
Perhaps I was not clear, he was tied to virtually every commercial venture in Cairo, mostly shipping and banks, and his ill-gotten gains were mostly from the practice of “baccheesh,” a “gift.” If the ‘gift’ was not paid then the commercial contract was not won.
Did the US give him funds? Can’t say, as I don’t know where the bucks would have come from and what part of the US budget they would be listed. Do you have specifics so I can look it up?
Really, what do we actually know about his ill-gotten gains? I KNOW the FMF world in Egypt and ran programs there so I can speak about FMS FMF programs having no role.
Do know Germany and France had a huge commercial presence in Cairo and they are not bound by US laws regarding corruption. Saudi and Italy and Indonesia also were there in numbers. Perhaps they all had a hand? US companies are bound by our FCPA (http://www.fcpa.us/) laws so if they engaged in corruption they would be prosecuted.
The risk is high for a US company to engage in corrupt business overseas, especially in the mid-east where the US government is well aware of corruption and will take time to look closely at your export licenses and what you are doing.
ESF to Egypt administered by the State Department, not my area and I can’t answer for that. Talk to a State Department ESF expert to find out how they dealt with baccheesh and how they administered the funds.
He was a ‘stooge’ for the US because of Camp David, the agreement for the FMF funds. I already addressed how those funds never leave the US.
To me, I think the bulk of his funds came from commercial non-US sources.
I differ.
You complain about my apparent evasion of your questions but won’t answer mine. Interesting. And instead you bring more liberal talking points. I see what that flag’s about then.
I do not support foreign aid, propping up foreign rulers, and foreign intrusion. I do not supporting military invasions into countries that have not directly attacked the U.S.
What was your question you say I evaded?
Thanks, I am aware of that, from tourism to shipping, weapons to hotels. Even his kids became billionaires, with a B.
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