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Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history (Mountain Meadows card played)
Washington Post ^ | May 20, 2012 | Sandhya Somashekhar

Posted on 05/21/2012 7:33:28 AM PDT by Seizethecarp

CARROLLTON, Ark. — On the wildflower-studded slopes of the Ozarks, where memories run long and family ties run thick, a little-known and long-ago chapter of history still simmers.

On Sept. 11, 1857, a wagon train from this part of Arkansas met with a gruesome fate in Utah, where most of the travelers were slaughtered by a Mormon militia in an episode known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Hundreds of the victims’ descendants still populate these hills and commemorate the killings, which they have come to call “the first 9/11.”

Many of the locals grew up hearing denunciations of Mormonism from the pulpit on Sundays, and tales of the massacre from older relatives who considered Mormons “evil.”

“There have been Fancher family reunions for 150 years, and the massacre comes up at every one of them,” said Scott Fancher, 58, who traces his lineage back to 26 members of the wagon train, which was known as the Fancher-Baker party. “The more whiskey we drunk, the more resentful we got.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: Arkansas
KEYWORDS: mormonism; mountainmeadows; romney
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To: kcvl
.


Clearly ... Ms. Sandhya Somashekhar ...

has Mitt Romney "boresighted" ...

and she looks like she wants to win a Pultizer Prize for her "courageous" reporting against Racism and Bigotry Against Women ...

... in a really, really hungry way ...



.
51 posted on 05/21/2012 9:42:14 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Erik Latranyi
The desperation of using an event that is over 150 years old is quite telling.

Did you really believe that this would not happen? MittBotts were warned daily on this forum, and it really helps that TokyoRove has proclaimed Rev. Wright is off limits. </sarcasm>

52 posted on 05/21/2012 10:11:46 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: DesertRhino
Mountain Meadows,, mormon atrocity. Ok,,fair enough. Barack is a muslim who follows Marx as much as he can.

Will we be treated to Muslim and Socialist mass murder stories that occurred since the 1840s?

I marvel at how out of touch with reality Romney supporters are. You can find hundreds of posts on this forum telling you exactly how this would play out and yet here you are aghast at to discover they have to audacity to bring this up.

53 posted on 05/21/2012 10:23:32 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: CPT Clay
Washington Post is really going all out for this Prez

Really, they are supporting Obama?
I am Shocked

54 posted on 05/21/2012 10:27:14 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: dirtboy; Tennessee Nana
I simply pointed out that Reid was not mentioned in the article

This may come as a shock to you, but Harry is not running this time.

Any freeper that is shocked by the slime machine coming after Romney over Mormonism is a little out of touch with reality.

55 posted on 05/21/2012 10:47:35 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: dirtboy

You say crap piece, trash, I am asking you what about the article is wrong.


56 posted on 05/21/2012 10:49:06 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: KarlInOhio
Expect hundreds of stories on TV and in newspapers about Mormonism between now and November. No, their release will have absolutely nothing to do with Romney - they'll just be something that people now need to know in 2012 which they didn't need to know in 2011.

Lol!

Also expect liberal Democrat mormons to say absolutely nothing in protest and be exempt from the campaign.

57 posted on 05/21/2012 10:52:29 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: svcw

I’m saying it is a hatchet job against Romney at the behest of the DNC. If you can’t realize that, you are apparently oblivous to years of the MSM doing just that.


58 posted on 05/21/2012 10:55:43 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
But I'll be damned if I give this kind of crap any credence or legitimacy by running with it.

How do you propose to stop it? Maybe if you appeal to WaPo or Newsweak, or Time they will run a picture of Romney with a halo.

Anyone with an IQ above 1 digit knew exactly how this would play out, no after what TokyoRove says.

You have had your bed made for you, now you will have to sleep in it.

If you go back and look when we had nine candidates running, I said then that none of those nine would ever be president, I am sticking with it.

May God have mercy on us.

59 posted on 05/21/2012 10:56:09 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: BO Stinkss
Us southerners don’t cotton to them thar mormon yankees. It’s ok to marry you sister - but not boof of ‘em! /sarc

That was an un-called for ethnic slur worthy of Bill Maher.

I hope you're proud of yourself.

60 posted on 05/21/2012 10:58:37 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: itsahoot
How do you propose to stop it? Maybe if you appeal to WaPo or Newsweak, or Time they will run a picture of Romney with a halo.

I don't expect them to stop it.

What I DO expect is for FReepers to not give this crap any credence and to instead condemn it as a blatant partisan attack. I don't care what you think about Romney per se, I know I don't like him one bit. But that isn't the point (although some posters would rather call me a Romneybot for this stance, my posting history to the contrary). The next MSM attack may well be against a candidate or conservative figure that you like. We should fight this beast anywhere it tries to bite.

61 posted on 05/21/2012 11:02:02 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: itsahoot

Please do try to keep up, Tennessee Nana raised Reid as an issue, not me.


62 posted on 05/21/2012 11:04:53 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Zionist Conspirator

“That was an un-called for ethnic slur worthy of Bill Maher. I hope you’re proud of yourself.”

Relax - I had the /sarc button on.


63 posted on 05/21/2012 11:27:02 AM PDT by BO Stinkss
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To: Patton@Bastogne
"Govenor Romney, given that NO ONE one in your family for SEVEN generations has ever served in the U.S. Military ... and the the Mormon Cult activiely pursued Succession so that they could own Black Slaves and have their Men could have Multiple Wives ... what gives you the "moral authority" to either serve as Commander in Chief ... or defend the idea that "Marriage is between one Man and and (only) ONE Woman ...."

Here is how I would answer:

George, one's faith is a very personal choice. The last time I looked, this is still the United States of America where we respect each other's faith and do not attack the beliefs within that faith.

If you would like to have a debate over the merits of your faith versus mine, we can do that. But right now, I am interested in restoring jobs and energizing the economy after years of an administration that has been way over its head.

64 posted on 05/21/2012 11:28:31 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
.


George Stephanopolus replies ...


"Of course, Govenor Romney ...

And no one here tonight (snicker) would ever question anyone's personal faith, albeit agnostic or the followers of Joseph Smith ...

However, America is founded on principals, and those principles led us to fight a long and bloody civil war to end slavery ...

Yet ... not only did Joseph Smith's followers choose NOT (snicker) to fight that war to end slavery ...

but Joseph Smith and those followers stauchly believed that not only was slavery acceptable, but also that Blacks were an inferior sub-human species, alarmingly close to the same beliefs held by Adolf Hitler and the NAZI Party ...

not to mention the Klu Klux Klan ...

So ... how could Womym and Minorities expect you to defend "freedom and justice for all" when the (snicker) alledgedly (snicker) lunatic racist founder of your religion taught for decades that Black were sub-humans, cursed by the ...

Angelic Messenger ... (snicker) ... "Mordecai from Planet Kolob" ?



Erik ... it's just like "shooting fish in barrel" ...


Fair ? Probably not.

Politically Effective ? "Priceless"



.
65 posted on 05/21/2012 11:44:19 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: BO Stinkss
Relax - I had the /sarc button on.

Then I apologize. It's just that that particular ethnic slur/stereotype is so prominent and so accepted that I have a bit of a hair trigger.

66 posted on 05/21/2012 11:46:53 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: dirtboy
What I DO expect is for FReepers to not give this crap any credence and to instead condemn it as a blatant partisan attack.

Sucks to be you then, because as Karen Carpenter said, It Has Only Just Begun

67 posted on 05/21/2012 12:02:30 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

No problem. Being a native Alabamian I hear it all the time from my co-workers.


68 posted on 05/21/2012 12:06:16 PM PDT by BO Stinkss
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To: Patton@Bastogne
Erik ... it's just like "shooting fish in barrel" ...

For you, me, Newt and Sarah, it is shooting fish in a barrel.

Whether Romney can take the pitch and hit it back is another story!

69 posted on 05/21/2012 12:14:51 PM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
.


You nailed that PERFECTLY ...

"Well Stated !" .....


.
70 posted on 05/21/2012 12:19:34 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: itsahoot

Better Karen Carpenter than your pointless points. Never thought I would see the day when so many FReepers were bending over backwards apologizing for a Wash Post hatchet job.


71 posted on 05/21/2012 12:29:32 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Why is stating correct information a hatchet job.
Romney is a mormon, this is mormon history, it is only a hatchet job if the information is incorrect or distorted.


72 posted on 05/21/2012 1:12:50 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LeonardFMason

Ha! Well said.


73 posted on 05/21/2012 1:18:51 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Seizethecarp

If Liberals are going to play Romney Mormonism as an issue in these elections then they are opening the gates of hell against Obama and his religion or religions including the name that scare them to death “Reverend Wright” in addition to the muslim religion of his Kenyan father, the muslim religion of his Indonesian step father, and the muslim religion that Obama was raised with until he was a teenager. Please liberals, make religion an issue in this elections, it would be the best gift to our side.


74 posted on 05/21/2012 1:20:25 PM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
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To: dirtboy

I never thought that I would see a day when Americans would vote for a man who truly believes and teaches, that he will one day be an actual God and have people worshiping him as we worship our God.


75 posted on 05/21/2012 1:23:53 PM PDT by ansel12 ( The first American vote for a man who believes that he will become literally God, an actual deity.)
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To: svcw

I like Mormons. I think they’re nice. And God loves them.


76 posted on 05/21/2012 1:24:31 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb

Romneybot!

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77 posted on 05/21/2012 1:27:24 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Tea Party movement: more obstinate, unyielding and hostile to Democrats Â…)
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To: Deb

Ye, my mormon family and friends are nice in general, and of course God loves them as He does us.
However, that has zero to do with mormonism and Romney running for president.


78 posted on 05/21/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: jveritas

Really, a radical black minister and a parishioner, versus a leader in a polytheistic cult?

A man who is destined to become a God?


79 posted on 05/21/2012 1:29:10 PM PDT by ansel12 ( The first American vote for a man who believes that he will become literally God, an actual deity.)
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To: Erik Latranyi; Elsie

“George, one’s faith is a very personal choice. The last time I looked, this is still the United States of America where we respect each other’s faith and do not attack the beliefs within that faith.”
________________________________________

That would be strange way to answer even for weird Willard..

and then again no...

His breakaway sect of Mormons are constantly attacking the beliefs of the original group of Mormons in his “faith” as he calls it, the fLDS...

Meanwhile Willie Mitty does not respect the beliefs of other religions like Christianity, Judaism etc


80 posted on 05/21/2012 1:36:54 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: ansel12

LOL... and I thought that liberals are idiots with low IQ... Do you really think that voters are going to be more effected by an event that happened in 1857, before the Civil War, and tie this event to Romney and then they are going to be OK with Obama muslim Kenyan father, muslim Indonesian step father, his muslim upgringing and then being a disciple of Jeremiah Wright? If Liberals are going to make religion as an issue we are going to crush them and crush Obama in these elections is a way they cannot even imagine in their worst nightmare.


81 posted on 05/21/2012 1:39:45 PM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
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To: svcw

Because who gives a damn about an event that occured in 1857, before the Civil War, and how the hell Romney has anything to do with this? This is insane and the only people who would accept this without laughing their ass off are the stupid liberals and those on our side who hate Romney...


82 posted on 05/21/2012 1:43:36 PM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
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To: svcw
No point explaining what should be obvious to y'all, apparently. But I'll try anyway.

The goal of the Wash Post here is to sow confusing into independent voters about Romney in order to help Obama. So the same folks who have ignored the utter lack of documentation for Obama in this life are raising something from 150 years ago as an issue for Romney.

And apparently, in your loathing for Mormonism, you are more than glad to wave the Wash Post hatchet yourself.

And who cares if they'll be attacking someone like Sarah Palin tomorrow? Go, Wash Post! Git dem Mormons! Show 'em good!

And I really don't care about Mormons, one way or the other. Nor do I have any inkling or desire to support Mitt, and my posting history bears that out.

But I see the MSM/DNC axis of evil as a much greater long-term threat to this country than Mitt or Mormons.

Apparently, you feel otherwise, so we'll just have to leave it at that.

83 posted on 05/21/2012 1:44:13 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: jveritas

Lashing out with personal insults did not help your point, whatever it was.

Mitt Romney is the candidate now, today, not before the Civil War.

How did you get so confused about this post?

*”Really, a radical black minister and a parishioner, versus a leader in a polytheistic cult?
A man who is destined to become a God?”


84 posted on 05/21/2012 1:58:04 PM PDT by ansel12 ( The first American vote for a man who believes that he will become literally God, an actual deity.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Mitt will be a fine President. The Lord will take of it.


85 posted on 05/21/2012 2:07:24 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: All

I voted for Mitt Romney the first day of early voting in Arkansas.
Tomorrow, Tuesday May 22, is primary day in Arkansas and the Republican slate has good conservatives down ticket as well as Mitt Romney at the top. I was proud to vote
straight Republican from top to bottom.


86 posted on 05/21/2012 2:21:10 PM PDT by mountainfolk ( God bless America)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Willie Mitty does not respect the beliefs of other religions like Christianity, Judaism etc

I love irony. It's so .... ironic

87 posted on 05/21/2012 2:23:17 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Tea Party movement: more obstinate, unyielding and hostile to Democrats Â…)
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To: Deb

RomneyBot the doings of the Mormon god or gods might be directed by men...

But not the LORD Jesus Christ...

He is God ALmighty and He tells men what to do...

You cannot sin and expect the God of the Christian Bible to clean up your mess...

It doesnt happen that way...

He just laughs at you ...


88 posted on 05/21/2012 4:04:04 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: Deb
I like Mormons. I think they’re nice. And God loves them.

I hate MORMONism. I know it is a heresy. GOD says to point this out.

89 posted on 05/22/2012 4:45:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Its the Mormon doctrines and tenets that are not acceptable to many...

Oh?

Come ON now Nana; admit it!

You KNOW you'd love to be a GODDESS!!


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


90 posted on 05/22/2012 4:49:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: DesertRhino
Will we be treated to Muslim and Socialist mass murder stories that occurred since the 1840s?

Interesting too,,,we can discuss mountain meadows, which nothing but a goober would walk around personally outraged about in 2012. But, we cant talk about Islamic atrocities happening in the last decade, or even the last year.

So; it's all in the TIMING???


“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.




91 posted on 05/22/2012 4:51:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: PizzaTheHut
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that these WaPo writers among others are being fed this stuff from Axelrod.

And just WHERE would HE get it from? HMMmm...?




92 posted on 05/22/2012 4:54:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
They get it from Smith...

And others...


 

Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.


93 posted on 05/22/2012 4:55:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Even in the face of ALL of this evidence; MORMONs stubbornly continue to 'BELIEVE'!


 
...FACTS of history:
 



"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




94 posted on 05/22/2012 4:57:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: trebb
...Mormonism as the greatest threat the world has ever seen...

You've nailed it!


Matthew 10:28

"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul;
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


If one trusts in a FALSE christ, they will receive the gift of a FALSE salvation.

95 posted on 05/22/2012 5:00:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Bruinator
I agree with all other things you listed, but please cite these three items if you can.. I would like to read up on it. Thanks.

Here is something close:

 

The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850, heads stacked in boxes,
and hung by their long hair from the eves of buildings at Fort Utah,
 has long been ignored, “You didn’t see the Indians beheading the Mormons.”
 
-- Historian Robert Carter

96 posted on 05/22/2012 5:01:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: BO Stinkss
It’s ok to marry you sister - but not boof of ‘em! /sarc

Ol' Joe would disagree with you!



97 posted on 05/22/2012 5:03:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: .45 Long Colt
Mormons are lost sinners trusting in a false gospel and I want nothing to do with any efforts to norm a stoneage cult.

Oh, we didn't restore it THAT far back!

Joseph just 'restored' it back to what JESUS had intended.)
 












 
666 posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:35:28 AM by MormonDude (I may not understand everything MORMON, but, by golly, I sure BELIEVE it!)
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98 posted on 05/22/2012 5:07:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Likewise I would hope folks could trash an obvious Mormon hit piece on Christians without making apologies for it

Here is their chance!!!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

99 posted on 05/22/2012 5:09:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw
Why is this “trash hit piece”, all it is doing to exposing mormonism and Romney.

THAT's why!!!

--MormonDude(Why can't you hateful bigots let folks find out about MORMONism from our Official Websites?)

100 posted on 05/22/2012 5:12:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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