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Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history (Mountain Meadows card played)
Washington Post ^ | May 20, 2012 | Sandhya Somashekhar

Posted on 05/21/2012 7:33:28 AM PDT by Seizethecarp

CARROLLTON, Ark. — On the wildflower-studded slopes of the Ozarks, where memories run long and family ties run thick, a little-known and long-ago chapter of history still simmers.

On Sept. 11, 1857, a wagon train from this part of Arkansas met with a gruesome fate in Utah, where most of the travelers were slaughtered by a Mormon militia in an episode known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Hundreds of the victims’ descendants still populate these hills and commemorate the killings, which they have come to call “the first 9/11.”

Many of the locals grew up hearing denunciations of Mormonism from the pulpit on Sundays, and tales of the massacre from older relatives who considered Mormons “evil.”

“There have been Fancher family reunions for 150 years, and the massacre comes up at every one of them,” said Scott Fancher, 58, who traces his lineage back to 26 members of the wagon train, which was known as the Fancher-Baker party. “The more whiskey we drunk, the more resentful we got.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: Arkansas
KEYWORDS: mormonism; mountainmeadows; romney
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To: svcw
You say crap piece, trash, I am asking you what about the article is wrong.

The timing.

--MormonDude(We want OUR man to at LEAST get the nomination. It'll look good on our resume.)

101 posted on 05/22/2012 5:17:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

April 21st, 2012

URGENT!

Fellow MORMON Freeper Christians!!
 
Hot diggity dog; our boy has MADE it!!
Now beware; for the media is gonna be on us like... well; you know the saying.

I've been getting lots of feedback from those of you on Free Republic (spit) about a certain ELSIE (or something like that), who is REALLY giving us a hard time there!
 
Why not try to point out to the uninformed how OBSESSED he seems to be.
 
Let's see if we can tangle him up so much trying to defend his reputation
that he'll no longer have as much time to post facts about MORMONism.
 
As always, Tommy M.  
 
(Keep pressing that we are CHRISTIAN and avoid anything MORMON like the DEVIL!!)

102 posted on 05/22/2012 5:19:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
I’m saying it is a hatchet job against Romney at the behest of the DNC.

I agree.

Now what?

It WILL not stop!

103 posted on 05/22/2012 5:21:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
What I DO expect is for FReepers to not give this crap any credence and to instead condemn it as a blatant partisan attack.

Oh, some will.

But others; like me; won't.

The first bunch are focused on our 'NATION' and how best to fix it - POLITICALLY.

While I am saying the problem is NOT political; but SPIRITUAL. I'm looking to ETERNITY and trying to get the souls of men (and women) to avoid being sucked into the maw of MORMONism.


These two disparate groups will NOT be reconciled.

104 posted on 05/22/2012 5:25:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Erik Latranyi
The last time I looked, this is still the United States of America where we respect each other's faith and do not attack the beliefs within that faith.

 
 

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

November 1st, 2011

The message for this month is -

Primaries are coming up REAL soon; so we MUST stay on our mantra:
        We are NOT electing a pastor/pope, but a PRESIDENT!!

We've been taking a beating on the Internet - especially from those hateful ANTIs on FreeRepublic!
We MUST keep the media constantly informed of those things the world considers christian.

We must NOT allow our MORMONness to show thru, as it has gotten a really bad rap thru history - lord only knows why...
Tommy

105 posted on 05/22/2012 5:27:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
But others; like me; won't.

Well, as I told someone else, I see the DNC/MSM axis as a much graver threat to this country than Mormons. It's clear you disagree and are more than glad to roll in this Wash Post dog turd.

Not that I'm surprised.

106 posted on 05/22/2012 5:42:34 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: jveritas
Because who gives a damn about an event that occured in 1857, before the Civil War, and how the hell Romney has anything to do with this?

Because who gives a damn about an event that occured in 2001, before the Afghan War, and what the hell does OBAMA have to do with this?

107 posted on 05/22/2012 5:49:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
Mitt will be a fine President. The Lord will take of it.

Obama will be a fine President. The Lord will take of it.

108 posted on 05/22/2012 5:51:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
RomneyBot the doings of the Mormon god or gods might be directed by men...




(click)
Praise to the Man!
 
 
 
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


109 posted on 05/22/2012 5:53:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
... I see the DNC/MSM axis as a much graver threat to this country than Mormons.

And is that not EXACTLY what I just said?

It would seem to me, that if a person was 'really' all this worried about our beloved country; they'd be pounding away at the folks who will be attending the RNC; making SURE that ROMNEY is NOT the republican nominee!

110 posted on 05/22/2012 5:59:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
... I see the DNC/MSM axis as a much graver threat to this country than Mormons.

And is that not EXACTLY what I just said?

It would seem to me, that if a person was 'really' all this worried about our beloved country; they'd be pounding away at the folks who will be attending the RNC; making SURE that ROMNEY is NOT the republican nominee!

111 posted on 05/22/2012 5:59:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
And is that not EXACTLY what I just said?

Uh, no, elsie, it's not. Despite any attempts to the contrary by you to spin your stance.

Do you ever bash on the MSM on FR? On the lack of vetting by Obama by the MSM?

It's telling that you are joining the MSM in raising concerns about an event over 150 years ago, but saying nothing about the irony of their failure to give anything remotely resembling scrutiny to Obama's own record.

Which means I have little time to waste with a pinhead like you.

Oh, and BTW, it was a no-brainer to predict this would happen. Doesn't mean anyone on FR should give it any credence.

112 posted on 05/22/2012 6:04:39 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Elsie
It would seem to me, that if a person was 'really' all this worried about our beloved country; they'd be pounding away at the folks who will be attending the RNC; making SURE that ROMNEY is NOT the republican nominee!

Well, elsie, that was my position all along about Romney. And Romney still looks like the winner of the GOP nomination.

And I don't support him at all. But I'll be damned if I ever cut the MSM an inch of slack for their double-standards on vetting and reporting.

If that is too hard for you and your co-horts to grasp, well, go right back to your anti-Mormon doctrinal posts. I prefer to keep front towards the real enemy.

113 posted on 05/22/2012 6:07:50 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Elsie
You are talking too much gibberish and making an analogy that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Your hate for Romney is blinding you for even speaking like a normal perosn. The same goes for the many Romney haters on this site.
114 posted on 05/22/2012 6:45:31 AM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Fortunately, no one pays any attention to your insane ranting... especially not God. Your hysterical shrieking about God vs. Mormons would be laughable if it wasn’t so blasphemous.


115 posted on 05/22/2012 12:26:17 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Elsie
God loves Mormons as much as he loves you members of the Westboro Church. At least Mormons don't get spit all over their monitors.
116 posted on 05/22/2012 12:34:25 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: dirtboy
The first bunch are focused on our 'NATION' and how best to fix it - POLITICALLY.
 
... I see the DNC/MSM axis as a much graver threat to this country than Mormons.
 
 
I guess YOUR definition of EXACT is a bit different than mine.

117 posted on 05/22/2012 12:39:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
It's telling that you are joining the MSM in raising concerns about an event over 150 years ago, but saying nothing about the irony of their failure to give anything remotely resembling scrutiny to Obama's own record.

I've got e-mail (most rational folks do) and I get PLENTY of stuff DAILY telling me about OBAMA; but hardly anything at ALL telling about MORMONism.

I intend to rectify that disparity.

I know you don't like me, my tactics or anything that vaguely convinces you that something is not 100% anti-Obama.

I'm fine with that - work YOUR side of the street and I'll work mine.

118 posted on 05/22/2012 12:42:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dirtboy
I prefer to keep front towards the real enemy.

Good!

We need all the help we can get!


1 Peter 5:8 >>
Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

119 posted on 05/22/2012 12:45:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jveritas
And ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.

John 8:32

120 posted on 05/22/2012 12:47:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
Fortunately, no one pays any attention to your insane ranting... especially not God. Your hysterical shrieking about God vs. Mormons would be laughable if it wasn’t so blasphemous.

 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



121 posted on 05/22/2012 12:48:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
God loves Mormons as much as he loves you members of the Westboro Church.

I'm sure HE does.

122 posted on 05/22/2012 12:49:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
At least Mormons don't get spit all over their monitors.

I really don't want to know how you have come by this information...

123 posted on 05/22/2012 12:50:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Satan quotes a lot scripture too. His probably don’t make anymore sense than yours.


124 posted on 05/22/2012 12:55:39 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Elsie

You really need to consolidate your irrelevant thoughts and random scriptures. People will still ignore you, but it will give you more time to race from thread to thread.


125 posted on 05/22/2012 1:00:35 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Elsie

Apparently you cannot speak the truth...


126 posted on 05/22/2012 1:07:27 PM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
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To: Elsie

Elsie,
Your pot at 104 is honest and concise. I think it outlines the reason that many posters are so much in disagreement with the anti Mormon crowd.

This site once was a united site against the leftist corrupt Clinton machine. We had libertarians, conservatives, corruption fighters, anarchists, Catholics, atheists, gun nuts, Evangelicals, Jews, Mormons, ex-patriots, conspiracy researchers, political junkies and news group addicts. We all learned from each other and developed toleration.

Note I used toleration and not “tolerance” as there was a certain amount of vital disagreement.

We did not, however, accept efforts to drive people out with stalking them over their beliefs.

That is what I see as such an unfortunate choice by many that have been hurt by their our association with Mormonism. This anti-corruption, conservative and pro-constitution site now seems to be awash with anti-Mormon issues and diatribes even against solid conservative members of long standing.

The new conservative Pope was given a gotcha question by the leftist media about what he thought of the Islamic faith He answered concisely that he thought Islam was “deficient” and the single word was spot on enough. Complete in one word it expressed all that was needed.

Every non-Mormon here that feels that Mormonism is deficient knows the arguments, history, and reasons for your stances but is still angered that every tenth thread must have this trolling, stalking diatribe continue ad nausium.
Do you think there are any readers or posters that havent seen the arguments of the anti-Mormon posters a hundred times? Our dog ain’t in that fight. As you outline we are focused on our NATION and how to fix it politically.


127 posted on 05/22/2012 1:46:31 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: KC Burke

Brilliant. Kind. Wonderful.


128 posted on 05/22/2012 1:58:35 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: jveritas
Apparently you cannot speak the truth...

Apparently??

Your Honor,

The prosecutaor has made a serious charge here.

If he has any EVIDENCE to back up his claim; the jury would just LOVE to see it.

129 posted on 05/22/2012 2:04:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: KC Burke

While I’ve got you folks all on the line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cers3vJcos&feature=related


130 posted on 05/22/2012 2:05:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb

Fortunately, no one pays any attention to your insane ranting... especially not God
______________________________________

I’ll tell God that next time He and I are having a cozy chat...

I’m sure He’ll do the right thing by you about your demands of Him about me..

Is there anything else youre mad at God about that you want me to pass along ???


131 posted on 05/22/2012 2:49:07 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: Tennessee Nana

As usual, your blather makes no sense. The day I make a “demand” of God will be the day you have a coherent thought.


132 posted on 05/22/2012 3:26:51 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb

Is there anything else youre mad at God about that you want me to pass along ???


133 posted on 05/22/2012 3:53:28 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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134 posted on 05/22/2012 4:42:52 PM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: Tennessee Nana
Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian

Nana; even though you are a hateful BIGOT; I'm just SURE that our church has changed it's mind about you christians (spit).

I'll look it up in our records and PROVE it to you!

--MormonDude(I'll just bet that OTHER of my Mormon brethren will look it up; too!)

135 posted on 05/22/2012 6:31:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: KC Burke
Do you think there are any readers or posters that havent seen the arguments of the anti-Mormon posters a hundred times?

Yes.

136 posted on 05/22/2012 7:37:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: KC Burke
We did not, however, accept efforts to drive people out with stalking them over their beliefs.

So?

If one of those groups you listed had a man (or woman) in the running for president; you can bet your sweet bippy that their 'belief' system would be fair game; just as Romney's is.

The FACT that ROMNEY has gotten this far, illustrates how little effect Chrsitianity has on America today.

But wait just a short while longer, and we WILL see a return to things of the bible!

HEBREWS 11:37

137 posted on 05/22/2012 7:42:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

My point is that I will criticize Ron Paul for the aspects of his overly ideological brand of Libertarianism and it’s limitations for the executive with relish but with posters I know here that are libertarians fighting with the left I will not disparage and hound them for their honest beliefs.

If that poster and I disagree I will make every effort to convince them while sharing in the fellowship of this forum. I have found myself here in much the same way that Chesterton tells us we are “dropped down the chimney of the house” of the family we are born into.

The experience he says is “christianizing” in a way that isolation with only the like minded is not. I know I can’t change my fellow posters mind by belittling his beliefs, stalking or trolling for him. I can only modify him by living the truths of my First Principles.

I oppose Romney due to his chameleon demagoguery and willingness to always work with leftists on compromise. While firmly believing his faith is deficient, I stand by the rule of the founders and eschew a Religious test for office.

As for others of that faith that have chosen to make common efforts with us here over a decade, I stand like Sam Adams ready to pray for my nation with any man.

Many on your side of this issue lack your forthrightness. They relish their hurt and anger and that lack of humility stifiles all Christian love. Taking an ecclesiastical authority upon themselves outside their communion appears, in the limits of Internet postings, as bigotry — a trait they probably to not have in real life.

My comments were given in appreciation for your frank and honest distinctions in your earlier post. I don’t plan to argue endlessly in hopes of changing any current tone of the forum. I only wish to honestly express my opinion.


138 posted on 05/22/2012 9:47:14 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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