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SpaceX: Private launch to space station now delayed indefinitely
Christian Science Monitor ^ | May 2, 2012 | May 2, 2012

Posted on 05/02/2012 4:19:15 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican

The first commercial cargo run to the International Space Station is off for next week.

Space Exploration Technologies Corp., better known as SpaceX, announced the latest delay Wednesday. The company did not set a new launch date.

A Falcon rocket carrying a Dragon capsule was supposed to blast off from Cape Canaveral on Monday. But additional software testing was ordered. The test flight is already three months late.

It will be the first time a private entity launches a supply ship to the space station. Only governments currently do that. NASA used to stockpile the space station through the shuttles. But the fleet was retired last summer. The space agency wants commercial providers to take over that role.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

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To: HamiltonJay

The above explains why PROFIT driven companies haven't been exploiting space. They can't. Haven't been able to without GOVERNMENT approval since 1967.

Sorry, but man has always dreamed of going beyond the horizon. Le Voyage Dans La Luyne was a 1902 B/w film about doing just that.

Henry Ford thought we'd all be flying private commuter planes everywhere by now. How'd that work out? FAA got in the way didn't it.

Now... Exactly WHERE in the Constitution does it give the FedGov the power to run an agency like NASA.

Take your time, we'll wait. It should be easy for you since you think you are so much smarter than us "silly" "fools".

41 posted on 05/03/2012 7:27:08 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: HamiltonJay
Shocker that a GOVERNMENT run program went over budget and failed to produce the originally pitched milestones...

But hey, it's better than what the private markets do...


42 posted on 05/03/2012 7:29:54 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

You are joking right? You really want to talk budget overruns and beaurocracy?

Have you ever actually worked in a large organization in your life? Beyond being a peon line worker in one?

You think budget overruns and delays only happen in Government? if so You are an abject fool.

This particular project is a perfect EXAMPLE.. NASA hired a private company to do a job, and guess what, end of the day the job isn’t finished on time and on budget, and you want to blame NASA for it? The delivered item has FAILED its testing.

Lets see, Edsel, Aztek, WEBVAN, Online Pet food? What was that MOROTROLA project that launched dozens of satellites only to see the boondogle completely fail to create a worldwide satelite phone network? etc etc etc. Industry is LITTERED with projects that haven’t wound up as planned, and that’s part of how it works. Risks are taken, rewards are given for those who succeed, but the OVERWHELMING majority FAIL. 90% of private industry FAILS.. that’s the facts jack.

No doubt government projects overrun, and those overruns get reported because they are big news and easy copy, and joe q six pack who has no idea how large projects get done just gobbles it up as examples of inefficiency. And No doubt at times there is incredible inefficiencies in systems when viewed from a cost basis. NASA is a perfect kicking boy for this idioticly foolish view... They are asked to accomplish a monumentally complex task, something that has NEVER EVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY... they work on this project, and invariably have to spend more time, effort and energy to get it done than they originally planned. Is this because they are all lazy? or taking bribes? or bad folks? Nope, its because they are DOING THINGS THAT HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, and NOT little things, BIG THINGS. Huge Things, Things that have the potential to change the course of human history and rewrite our most basic understandings of the universe.

No private company, EVER has even remotely tried to do the things that NASA has done. I applaud the SPACEX projects, and all the X projects, but even the folks who work on trying to get those X Prizes openly admit, they are building upon the lessons that were learned by those huge investments. The reusable space plane is an accomplishment, and a great one, but do you think the folding wing design to slow the cract without heat shielding could have come about without the decades of research, development and practical application that came before it???? They are attempting to accomplish things cheaper, which is great, but they aren’t accomplishing them in vaccuums they are building on the knowledge and engineeering discovered by NASA and other agencies around the world who have done so.

Industry is littered with failures, cost overruns and budget breaks. The difference is that in private industry its all part of the game. You don’t have leadership changes ever 4 years, that change mid stream requirements, etc etc etc.

You are a fool my friend, you can worship at the trough of the marketplace, right across from the fool who worships at the trough of government. Two sides of the same idiotic coin.

Space Flight didn’t happen in the private sector my friend, you can cite your treaty, but the reality is not one private company was even trying to reach space, until the Russians (government program) put a satellite in orbit) and then the US GOVERNMENT made it a priority to respond here, and launched the space agency.

Space exploration doesn’t exist without government, its not like the automobile, or the airplane. No one, Not one private company existed with the goal to reach space prior to the launch of sputnik. You don’t have a grandfather of the space age, you can’t cite one person or a small group of folks who got a rocket into space, because unlike the automobile or the airplane, you couldn’t tinker your way there. It took initiatives like NASA and The Soviet Unions initiatives to get there... it wasn’t something that private industry was going to do. Private industry has benefitted greatly from the results of these programs, all sorts of technological problems had to be overcome which launched all sorts of products and firms from them.

Folks who worship at the trough of market need to wake up, government is not inherently evil, that claim is just as ludicrous as leftist and commies who argue free markets are inherently evil.

Private Industry didn’t build the interstate highway system, nothing like it was on the books or even being attempted, governemnt did, that system modernized the private industry greately, but no private industry was planning or doing it.

Do I agree with everything government does? Nope, not even close, but the idea that government has no role in things is just idiotic. You wish to live somewhere where the government accomplishes nothing, I suggest you go find yourself a nice place in a narco republic somewhere, and enjoy the anarchy.

Its very easy to buy into the Government is evil, just as it is the market is evil world views. Both are inherently flawed. Capitalism in and of itself is no less likely to lead to objectificaton and opression than any other ISM my friend. Capitalism works when its operating within the confines of a moral government and legal system. Left to its own devices it is no less likely to repress and opress. Don’t believe me? Go look at parts of the world where the government is virtually non existant, and capitalism exists. Lives are traded for pennies because on paper that’s what their life is worth. Capitalism can be used to justifies indentured servitude, prostitution, etc etc etc.. none of these constructs violate the fundamental tenants of capitalism itself. You go watch a 5 year old tied to a wall in a chinese factory every day, so his parents can both work for a barely sustiance wage, and tell me that capitalism can be any less detrimental to the human condition and spirit that communism.

Capitalism is a great system, but don’t foolishly dillude yourself that when left to its own devices it will not happily turn into opression. It is only moral if it operates within the structual confines of moral oversight, and that doesn’t come from within.

There are many Government success stories, the difference is, when the government does do something successfully it cannot legally profit from it. It may have the same 90% failure rate, or even higher, but it cannot directly benefit from the successes. More than 1650 spin off companies have launched out of technologies directly created by NASA and its research... out of ~50 years of existence.... that’s an average of 33 new products a year!! Now of course NASA doesn’t to make the bit payoffs on its successes. They go into the public domain and others do.

Riddle me this sherlock, if building rockets is so damned easy, and the private industry could have done this without the treaty.. why is it India is building a manned space program with governement money? After all its got a good cashflow and capitalist system going now... why is government behind their efforts? We’ve already done the hard work, seems simple enough, just copy what we’ve done and go for it, some private company should be willing to invest the energy, $$ and effort without government backing now..

43 posted on 05/03/2012 8:54:16 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: saganite

You have no clue here.

44 posted on 05/03/2012 8:57:35 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: HamiltonJay
Yes. I have. In fact, I fired someone for padding their budgets in our of our Departments.

$500 for hammer? $1500 for a toilet seat? NASA was rife with such overcharged bullshit.

No private company, EVER has even remotely tried to do the things that NASA has done.

Again... Why would they? The profit motive was OUTLAWED in 1967.

Take your wall of irrelevant text and shove it.

When you have a real point, come back and make it.

45 posted on 05/03/2012 9:20:00 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

Treaty was in 1967, sputnik launched in 1957. And no one was trying for it before 1957 at all.. so please stop the silliness.

Here’s the simple facts, do you know what the industry average is for software development? What it is for being on time and budget??? DO you?

Its +/- 25%, 50% of the time. That means, only 1/2 the time does a software project come in at +/- 25% of its original plan! That not NASA, that’s not government beauracracy, that’s INDUSTRY WIDE!!!!

Now, given most software development is nowhere near the complexity of doing the things NASA is asked to do daily, you really think NASA is just padding folks pockets? Is there waste, any large organization has waste! I worked for a company that was still spending $5000 a month to provide dial up service to its network for 3 customers! Back in the day that services provided the bulk of its clients interactions, but as the clients slowly shifted to their own internet connections they slowly stopped using it, to a point where only 3 were left, but the company was still paying that $5k a month for YEARS. And nope, that wasn’t government.. private industry.

I worked for a company that was paying maintenance contracts on hardware they hard retired 5 years ago! Again, Private Industry.

Any large organization has inefficiencies and communcation breakdowns, private or public, if you think otherwise you are a fool.

Lets just visit your private industry argument for a second shall we... the Ansari XPRIZE that said ship to 100 Miles from earth surface 2 times in 2 weeks, 10 Million bucks to the winner... Well, guess what, it was announced in 1996, it was claimed in 2007, and to date, not one commercial flight has flown. The XPRIZE basically said, replicate the performance perameters that didn’t even match what was done in 1964 by the Russians.

I don’t take anything away from the winners, but it took private industry 11 years to replicate something that was done by governments 41 years earlier, other than reusability of the capsule, and only had to reach 1/2 as high.

Why did it take them 11 years? Hmm? All the hard work had been done, and they weren’t even required to use a launch from earth rocket, they could piggy back on a plane first. They had 41 years of newer technology, much of it initially funded and developed via NASA or its spin offs... etc etc etc.

Oh and BTW, that $10 Million Dollar prize that was paid out for the XPRIZE.. it took over $100 Million dollars to accomplish.

To give you some comparsion there, the cost to send the 2 rovers to Mars and operate their original design spec was 820 Million. So, private industry spent a full 1/8 of nasa’s budget to design, build, send, land and operate 2 rovers to another planet, just to accomplish something Government space agencies did 41 years prior... Yep, you are right, NASA’s just a hugely inefficient organization wasting money hand over fist.

Your arguments don’t hold up to scrutiny, you have ideological blinders on that you will never allow yourself to see through.

46 posted on 05/03/2012 10:16:26 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: ace2u_in_MD
"Cargo and passenger runs to LEO is a great example of how commercial providers can free up NASA to do the blending edge stuff."


Same thing happened when Man explored the New World. Governments (NASA) blazed the trail then Free Enterprise came in and made it work.

I see so many FReepers on the Space threads claiming NASA should be phased out. No, NASA should concentrate on blazing the trail and establishing a base on the Moon and then Mars. Then set the Free Enterprisers lose and let them make it pay off.

You are gonna need Space stations around both the Moon and Mars as well as Earth lots of opportunity for Free Enterprise to get in their and make it work. Especially when we finally establish a Lunar Base!

47 posted on 05/03/2012 10:28:17 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: HamiltonJay
Treaty was in 1967, sputnik launched in 1957. And no one was trying for it before 1957 at all.. so please stop the silliness.

And all of the best rocket scientists were being hired by the GOVERNMENT on the missiles to use against the Soviets. Most of which were spirited out of Germany after WWII.

Why bother mining asteroids when most of the iron and steel you needed came from the Iron Range in Minnesota? It didn't make economic sense.

It does today.

$820 million to send two remote controlled golf carts to Mars. Yep... There's a heck of an ROI...

You aren't very good at the whole economics thing are you?

48 posted on 05/03/2012 12:27:07 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: JRandomFreeper
I have yet to see the government do anything efficiently, except kill people and break things.

They do that efficiently??

49 posted on 05/03/2012 4:15:39 PM PDT by MV=PY (The Magic Question: Who's paying for it?)
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