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It’s a fact. “Keeping them comfortable” with opiates and benzos inevitably kills them.. They’re gonna die either way. They might as well do so pain free.
The only interesting aspect of the article is the curious attitude it takes, that all the accusations must surely be false and without merit.
From my own experience that is definitely not the case.
There will be no Death Panels. But there will be lots (and lots) of palliative care — especially for those patients who have no money and who rely on “free” medical care.
From the article: “... even if they have the secondary effect of speeding the dying process...”
That’s still killing a patient.
From conception to natural death.
No one who is sent to a hospice facility, comes out alive. It is a death house.
I went through this with my husband last year. One doctor said send him to hospice. So, I went to the hospice facility and found a patient goes there to die and if the patient needs emergency help to keep him/her alive, it doesn’t happen - the patient dies.
There was a “funeral home room” for funeral homes to come to talk to the family.
My husband was not going to this “death house”. Later, as I talked to doctors they told me that is what happens at hospice - the patient dies. Then, when he was in another hospital under the care of our family physican, I told him, “no hospice”. He said he would not do that to him. I found, with doctors who care about you, they would not use hospice for their family members.
Yes, my husband died, but he lived much longer than he would have if I had sent him to hospice and he got everything possible until he died so I know I did everything humanly possible to keep him alive. I did not abandon him to die in a hospice death house.
Hospice is a death house - that is what it was designed for - to die with no special act to save the person’s life. Give drugs until the patient dies and don’t do anything to keep the patient alive.
If anyone wants to contradict what I have written here, don’t bother. Just go into a hospice death house and die, but stop by their funeral home room to plan a funeral.
One final word - so Medicare doesn’t have to pay more money to keep you alive, hospice came into being, paid by Medicare, so you could die faster and Medicare wouldn’t have to pay more money to keep you alive. It’s one step away from Solient Green. I saved my husband from that kind of death.
This is the part where the author pivots from palliative care to killing. See how easily and effortlessly the transition is made? And his ultimate defense? "It's the standard of care now."
If 25% have been accused of murder or euthanasia by patients themselves, then something is very very rotten in Denmark.
Perhaps I can speak to this subject from recent personal experience.
My husband died peacefully at home, under hospice care, on March 3rd of this year. He suffered terribly from symptoms that resembled Parkinson’s, but had many autonomic nervous system failure symptoms as well, that conventional Sinemet, and all the other wonder drugs did little or nothing to alleviate.
He stopped eating and drinking, and with the help of an experienced nurse here in our assisted living building, I worked up my courage to ask for hospice. It was difficult to convince the three doctors involved in his care to sign the papers, because (in my opinion) they refused to accept that the standard meds prescribed were not working, or were causing horrible side effects.
Taking a Parkinson’s patient to the emergency room is asking for a disaster. I learned that the hard way. He begged me not to be taken back to the emergency room, and asked that he never have to go into rehab again, after the the hospital stay, when he never got his meds on time, and was treated by whoever was on-call and knew nothing about how complicated his case was, because of the autonomic nervous system features.
Reading a chart for 3 minutes is not enough - and floor nurses do not understand the importance of timing the meds to the minute, and making sure that they are co-ordinated around the meals.
Anyway, when the last crisis happened, we didn’t take him to the hospital. He didn’t want to eat or drink, and was in severe muscular pain. He was given a very LOW dose of morphine, just enough to take the edge off his pain, and as much liquid as we could get him to drink, and we swabbed his mouth constantly.
He died peacefully, with me holding his hand, and no longer in pain. Hospice was wonderful to us both, and if I get some crappy disease, this is the way I want to go.
I miss him so much. I miss his voice, his mind, his wisdom, and his scent. Words cannot tell the depth of my grief at losing my lover, my best friend, and the father of my children, who was always there for us.
But, I respect the choices others make. There are no simple solutions to the illnesses that eventually end our lives, and we should be able to choose according to our preferences.
At the end of my husband’s life, morphine (again an extremely low dose) was the only thing that helped him with the unremitting pain. Thank God for it, for he was free of the torture.
Perhaps I can speak to this subject from recent personal experience.
My husband died peacefully at home, under hospice care, on March 3rd of this year. He suffered terribly from symptoms that resembled Parkinson’s, but had many autonomic nervous system failure symptoms as well, that conventional Sinemet, and all the other wonder drugs did little or nothing to alleviate.
He stopped eating and drinking, and with the help of an experienced nurse here in our assisted living building, I worked up my courage to ask for hospice. It was difficult to convince the three doctors involved in his care to sign the papers, because (in my opinion) they refused to accept that the standard meds prescribed were not working, or were causing horrible side effects.
Taking a Parkinson’s patient to the emergency room is asking for a disaster. I learned that the hard way. He begged me not to be taken back to the emergency room, and asked that he never have to go into rehab again, after the the hospital stay, when he never got his meds on time, and was treated by whoever was on-call and knew nothing about how complicated his case was, because of the autonomic nervous system features.
Reading a chart for 3 minutes is not enough - and floor nurses do not understand the importance of timing the meds to the minute, and making sure that they are co-ordinated around the meals.
Anyway, when the last crisis happened, we didn’t take him to the hospital. He didn’t want to eat or drink, and was in severe muscular pain. He was given a very LOW dose of morphine, just enough to take the edge off his pain, and as much liquid as we could get him to drink, and we swabbed his mouth constantly.
He died peacefully, with me holding his hand, and no longer in pain. Hospice was wonderful to us both, and if I get some crappy disease, this is the way I want to go.
I miss him so much. I miss his voice, his mind, his wisdom, and his scent. Words cannot tell the depth of my grief at losing my lover, my best friend, and the father of my children, who was always there for us.
But, I respect the choices others make. There are no simple solutions to the illnesses that eventually end our lives, and we should be able to choose according to our preferences.
At the end of my husband’s life, morphine (again an extremely low dose) was the only thing that helped him with the unremitting pain. Thank God for it, for he was free of the torture.
Its a TOTALLY a personal matter and the idea that the government has anything to do with it at any level is sickening beyond belief.
“It still stings to hear that,” he said. But Dr. Casarett takes solace in knowing that he is doing right by his patients. “I tell other physicians that this is the standard of care, and that these sorts of medications and interventions are safe and effective.”
What is the definition of ‘effective’?
I think we know.
He was tired, sick, hurting, and wanting for the better world beyond. I gave him his meds. I checked myself allowed maximum and minimum strengths. He never no where near approached maximum on any pain or Benzo medication.
The truth was this. He was initially only given three years. His urologist was tops and contained it for about 8 years then the Oncologist became involved the last two. During that time and for his age they were truthful the likelihood was the cancer would not kill him but another unrelated matter would like heart attack etc. He was just otherwise a lot healthier than most for his age.
In my view, pain management is perfectly acceptable if it is the patient's death, even it if possibly hastens death. Suicide isn't acceptable, and starving someone to death is beyond the pale.
There is absolutely no doubt that 90% of all cancer patients die of morphine overdose, or stronger opiates.
Thank God.
I want to say something here: Over the last year I've been saying this online and was attacked by the religious zealots...you know, those same zealots that would take their mother to the promised land too...saying either it DOES NOT HAPPEN or that it was murder if it did.
To ALL of them I say go eff yourself and don't stand between me and my family.
Each and every one of them was a Santorum supporter as it was on Santorum threads when he started talking about euthanasia in The Netherlands.
My father discovered that he had developed pancreatic cancer too late for anything other than chemotherapy and radiation. Fortunately, he had access to incredible medical care from the best in the pancreatic cancer business.
For those who do not know, this type of cancer is painful and relief from that pain requires a significant amount of medication, including opiates. In addition, not only are there physical aspects to dying that are hard to anticipate and unique, there are also great mental challenges as you begin to face your end on Earth.
My father was a devout Catholic, outspoken anti-abortion, and gave money to a myriad of causes designed to help people in need. He also was very giving of his time, helping countless children mature and grow into responsible adults.
After fighting this horrible disease - nothing can prepare you to watch someone suffer in this manner - for 14 months, he could fight no more. In fact, there came a definitive point where he knew he would soon die. Everyone likes to think that their father is tough, and mine was provably so, but after making every sacrifice, allowing his body to be poked and prodded for more than a year, and trying every available remedy, he accepted that he was destined for Heaven.
We did speak with Hospice, and in fact signed him up for the program for him to die at home as peaceful as possible. However, that same evening he began to experience the greatest pain of his entire journey and instead of calling Hospice, my mother decided to take him to the hospital. That is where he was admitted to the palliative care floor at his hospital, and was where I learned a new phrase (palliative care) and what that entailed.
He had little time left to be conscious, in fact only 2.5 days in hindsight, so there was a flurry of activity to make final plans, say goodbye, and try to make him as comfortable as possible. His doctor, who was the most wonderful, caring, a compassionate person you could ask for, who had stuck with him throughout the journey, was there. He told her that he was ready to die, that he was done fighting, and that if they could give him a shot right there to take him out of his misery, he would take it. In absence of that option, he asked that he be kept free from pain.
From that point forward, it is hard to put into words what I witnessed. Along with my mother, we lived for almost 10 days in that little room (I left for roughly 6 hours in that time period, my Mom almost none) caring for him the best that we were able. I had never witnessed someone die in this manner, let alone my father, and there are sounds, sights, smells, and other things that were horrible to experience. He was essentially unconsciousness for 7 days, though there were a few brief moments where he “woke up” and tried to communicate with us. We had worked with the staff at the hospital to increase his morphine intake until he no longer exhibited outward signs of pain, and it certainly affected his ability to communicate and function.
Regarding hospice care and palliative care, at the time I did not give too much weight to the fact that they only kept him on a slow IV for hydration and no nutrients whatsoever. He asked to be kept pain-free and he acknowledged his fast-approaching death. The reason behind the extreme pain that led him to the hospital this final time was an intestinal blockage that prevented him from digesting food. Essentially, without external infusion of a source of nutrients, he was a goner no matter what at this point - the disease had reached its apogee.
Did the lack of nutrients hasten his death? Probably... Did the large amount of opiates hasten his death? I don’t know, but possibly... Did he want to die? Yes. Would he have accepted a quick death at the end without suffering? Yes, he specifically requested it from his doctor, but she refused.
In hindsight, I did feel that he was at least partially starved to death in the end, but I have to ask - why would we want to prolong his suffering? To what end? He wanted to go to God... He wanted the pain to end. He was tired of suffering and made his choices lucid and after much reflection. Had we given him nutrients, he could have possibly lived for a month or more while in extreme pain from the blockage. As it was, he made it almost 10 days and we were successful in keeping it mostly pain-free, but it wasn’t a 100% pain-free experience.
I miss my Father and it was hard to watch such a strong man get destroyed by such a ruthless disease, but the disease was destined to win over his physical body. This is without doubt or question - He was terminal. Upon reflection, I think that what the staff at the palliative care ward in the hospital accomplished was amazing. To a person, they were loving, kind, sympathetic, helpful, caring, and strong. They worked very hard to make sure that my father suffered as little as possible as he completed his journey here and began his next. Were I in his shoes, I don’t know what I would have done the same or different, but the terminal suffering would have heavily weighed in my decisions. He made his choice to move on and we accepted all of the assistance that we could to help him with his wish.
I don’t think that there ever will be a template that can be used to make these types of decisions, though our “leaders” are going to try. Ultimately, if it can be competently made by the patient, that is who’s wishes should be honored to the best of our ability.
This happened to my Mom. Her oxygen concentrations were dropping into the 80's and she was becoming confused. Nobody seemed to care. I made the hospice go out and get the correct equipment resulting in an extra week of clarity for my Mom.
They'll saturate you with morphine, starve you of oxygen and send you off early.
** aggressive pain and symptom management (even to the point of unconsciousness), along with a greater willingness to withdraw advanced, life-sustaining treatments such as mechanical ventilation, dialysis, and artificial hydration and nutrition — still strike many people as wrong.**
It is wrong. I have often wondered after my husband died if the morphine had anything to do with hastening his death. He was unconscious, but could still hear us and reached out to give me and all five children a hug.
Makes one wonder.
I had a family member euthanized that way by a combination of the doctor sending her home without IV and the hospice doctor foisting a lethal dose of morphine on her against her will. Either would have been enough to do her in, together they snuffed her out quite quickly.
It is criminal and widespread.
If your loved one has COPD, is 83 and is being admitted to the hospital for the 4th time in 6 months, should heroic life-saving measures be considered appropriate or simply delaying the inevitable?
Finally, there are studies that show patients who are on hospice actually live longer than patients with similar prognoses not on hospice.
Lots of uninformed nonsense in this thread.