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Thinking Can Undermine Religious Faith, Study Finds
LA Times ^ | April 27, 2012 | Amina Khan

Posted on 04/26/2012 7:47:20 PM PDT by lbryce

Scientists have revealed one of the reasons why some folks are less religious than others: They think more analytically, rather than going with their gut. And thinking analytically can cause religious belief to wane — for skeptics and true believers alike.

The study, published in Friday's edition of the journal Science, indicates that belief may be a more malleable feature of the human psyche than those of strong faith may think.

The cognitive origins of belief — and disbelief — traditionally haven't been explored with academic rigor, said lead author Will Gervais, a social psychologist at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agnostic; athesim; god; religion
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With early Man's utter unfamiliarity with the concept of science, his limited capacity in understanding the fundamentals for the dynamics of the world all around him combined with his insatiable curiosity, thirst for knowledge, that the wondrous phenomena all around him was created by God was an elegant solution to satisfying Man's fundamental need to know, being intellectually fulfilled for as long as it held.

But with time, asking questions, probing deeper into the inner workings of the world that surrounded him, Man began to learn, understand that the world around him was not rooted in supernatural power but that of principles of natural phenomena unraveled, as such the power, the belief in a supernatural deity, a God,diminished over time and continues to do so, by those who ask questions, seek out the truth, answer questions that religion, the belief in a God simply finds itself much too inadequate to resolve.

1 posted on 04/26/2012 7:47:26 PM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce

Dunno about that. I wandered through agnosticism and atheism and it was thinking that finally led me to God. Science offered no answers that weren’t based on a high degree of faith, along with contradictory and constantly changing theories.


2 posted on 04/26/2012 7:53:27 PM PDT by Hootowl
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To: lbryce
Nonsense.
3 posted on 04/26/2012 7:53:38 PM PDT by what's up
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To: lbryce

I’m sure Isaac Newton and Johannes Kepler would disagree.


4 posted on 04/26/2012 7:56:52 PM PDT by Idaho_Cowboy (Fight because its right, not because the odds are on your side.)
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To: lbryce

And thusly the advocates of scientism have gone on to this day.

However they have only managed to shrivel and depersonalize the world with their presuppositions.

Rigorous, logical thinking does not play favorites when given the premises of theism. It works equally well with them as it does with the premises of atheism. Logic can’t furnish any premises any more than science can prove there isn’t a God. All the pretense of science to where theology had once been has done, is to cheapen the realm of knowledge, and reduce the view of man to that of some kind of automaton.


5 posted on 04/26/2012 7:56:57 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: lbryce

St. Thomas Aquinas would be so pleased.


6 posted on 04/26/2012 7:57:06 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (Tomes for the Times?? Who knew?)
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To: lbryce

If this is true, then how come pretty much every atheist I’ve ever met was atheist of the “my kitty died when I was 5 years old, therefore God doesn’t exist” mold?


7 posted on 04/26/2012 7:58:04 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: lbryce
Written by Amina Khan, Berkley Grad, wrote for Arianna Huffington, and lists no religion. (Her linkedin page)

My husband accuses me of being over analytical. Now I can tell him that just can't be true because I'm Catholic!

8 posted on 04/26/2012 8:00:05 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Hootowl

Here’s one to think about: they killed Christ and he came back. Now, how much thinking can overcome fact?


9 posted on 04/26/2012 8:00:43 PM PDT by Bowtie52
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To: lbryce

Good. Would someone please tell the Eastern orthodox Church this. I’m in the process of joining and most days the studying has my brain on life support.


10 posted on 04/26/2012 8:01:32 PM PDT by bad company (There are no illegal guns, just undocumented firearms.)
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To: lbryce; betty boop; marron; Alamo-Girl; little jeremiah; metmom; xzins; GodGunsGuts; Fichori; ...
They're at it again beep.

Looks like another phishing "study"

11 posted on 04/26/2012 8:01:43 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
I have a neighbor that is an atheist. He did live through Nazi occupation. Therefore, for him, God doesn't exist.

100% emotional reaction of a child under horrible circumstances, and nothing rational or thoughtful about it.

It's common. I pray for them.

/johnny

12 posted on 04/26/2012 8:04:16 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: lbryce

Ridiculous!

As a Marine (which requires thinking), and a member of MENSA (which means I think quite a bit), I have never wavered in my Faith in God.

If, as they think they have answered, which came first, The Chicken or the Egg, the Chicken didn’t just crawl out of the protoplasm...it was, as I was, created.


13 posted on 04/26/2012 8:09:04 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: lbryce
I should have included to say that science does by no means pretend to have all the answers but at least atheists, agnostics will say so up front. I've never come across any religious discussion dealing with God in which 'I don't know' seems a viable response.

It's just that religious people do in fact discourage thinking, probing too deeply for fear of seeming intellectually inadequate. To scoff at questions of where the Universe came from, how does something emerge out of nothing, is easily applied to God. Where did God come from? How did God emerge out of nothingness?? Would love to hear some answers that don't border on the inane.

14 posted on 04/26/2012 8:10:32 PM PDT by lbryce
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To: JRandomFreeper

Perhaps because he was alive at the end of the Nazi occupation was because God does exist and was protecting him, giving him the will to survive, inspiring others to help him survive. Do you know if he has ever considered that?

And then there is the excellent book “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Viktor Frankl


15 posted on 04/26/2012 8:12:42 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: lbryce

God’s invisible nature is made plain through what has been made, so “unbelievers” are without excuse. The fact is, for all their hauteur, they suppress the truth. The entire universe was made through Jesus, so every “discovery” points to Him. It is a refusal to honor Him, not an innocent mistake.


16 posted on 04/26/2012 8:12:42 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: lbryce

So violent gang members, drunk frat boys, and drug addicted prostitutes are examples of the enlighten state of having no religion?


17 posted on 04/26/2012 8:13:33 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: lbryce
This is a creation. You are a created being.

G_d loves you, otherwise he wouldn't have created you.

18 posted on 04/26/2012 8:15:20 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: lbryce
As for whether this should alarm the layperson, Epley shrugged. "Even deeply religious people will point out they have had moments of doubt," he said.

which kinda undermines their premise in the first place...see Mother Teresa's life for both sides.
19 posted on 04/26/2012 8:16:32 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: lbryce; Hootowl; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Thinking Can Undermine Religious Faith, Study Finds

Only if you don't know what you believe and why you believe it.

My husband, my kids, and I are VERY analytical thinking people and we ALL have strong faith.

Believing in God does not equate to kissing your brains goodbye.

Hootowl, you're right. Science depends way more on faith than most scientific types care to admit. The reason they don't acknowledge it is that for the most part, science is being used as an alternative to God for those who have issues over God that are NOT related to science or intellect. People turn to science for justification to reject Him.

20 posted on 04/26/2012 8:18:26 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: lbryce
You have to read the whole article to see just how "rigorous" this particular experiment is. I quote the following paragraph verbatim so no one will accuse me of taking the details out of context:

First, students were randomly assigned to look at images of Auguste Rodin's sculpture "The Thinker," or of the ancient Greek statue of a discus thrower, "Discobolus." Those who viewed "The Thinker" were prompted to think more analytically and expressed less belief in God — they scored an average of 41.42 on a 100-point scale, compared with an average of 61.55 for the group that viewed the discus thrower, according to the study.

Clearly sports make you religious. Or something. Anyone who takes this sort of thing seriously instead of giving it the belly-laugh it deserves is only hurting himself.

21 posted on 04/26/2012 8:20:12 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: lbryce

I believe this is just rationalization.

There are plenty of great scientific, musical and historical minds and they all had no trouble in believing in God. In fact if anything what the created/discovered in their respective fields just strengthened their belief in a rational, orderly Creator God.

People today rationalize everything in order to do whatever they want. Rationalization is the 2nd greatest human drive.


22 posted on 04/26/2012 8:20:15 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: lbryce
How did God emerge out of nothingness?

I'll take the mystery of an uncreated God over the absurdity of an uncreated universe any day of the week.

23 posted on 04/26/2012 8:20:31 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: lbryce

Hmmm, yes of course you are correct. Matter and energy began from nothing...not to mention life. Wonder why evolution, or is it “mother nature” who is your god...made two sexes, pretty inefficient isn’t it?

Not only does man figure out that there is a higher power in every civilization, but God actually makes himself known to us very clearly, but we do have to open our eyes and contemplate (that is think...for you atheists) about things a bit. Did you know that the concept of fairness is inside all of us? Where does that come from? Hmmm, where does thought itself originate that gives us the ability to put a string of letters together to create words and then a string of those words together to create a coherent sentence???

Oh well, I am tired of “thinking” time to go pray for the lost souls whom do not believe in God...they truly are sad and pitiful folks.


24 posted on 04/26/2012 8:21:51 PM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: lbryce

actually the reverse is true. a more ridiculous assertion, completely ignorant of the history of science, could hardly be imagined.

the greatest scientists and thinkers ever born, people like boyle, faraday, newton, einstein, and i could go on and on described their work as attempts to discover the mind of God.


25 posted on 04/26/2012 8:22:13 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: Yashcheritsiy
If this is true, then how come pretty much every atheist I’ve ever met was an atheist of the “my kitty died when I was 5 years old, therefore God doesn’t exist” mold?

Because if you are destined to be an atheist God kills your kitty when you are about five and then you simply don't want to face the truth of who killed your kitty.

Or maybe not...

26 posted on 04/26/2012 8:22:13 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: lbryce

How did time, space, and matter emerge out of nothingness? Riddle me that mr science guy. Once you have an answer, so will I.


27 posted on 04/26/2012 8:25:01 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: JRandomFreeper

Well, that’s the thing about people. Two people can go through the same traumatic event, and one person winds up saying “there is no God” and the other winds up finding God.

There are people who did find God going through the holocaust. There are soldiers who liberated those camps who found God through those experiences. Same with 9-11.


28 posted on 04/26/2012 8:25:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: lbryce

The sense I get from this piece is reminiscent of the way they wanted to use Einstein’s theory of relativity for undermining moral absolutes.


29 posted on 04/26/2012 8:26:29 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: lbryce
If I look at this logically, I see only three options: the universe is eternal, which according the the mathematics of eternity it is not, there is something greater than the universe which is eternal that brought forth the universe, or the universe itself sprung out of nothingness. This really boils down to one option: there has to be an uncaused cause (cause and effect).
30 posted on 04/26/2012 8:26:49 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: lbryce
I had my own problems with some 'church people' that didn't like the questions that I asked. I was always in trouble over that kind of thing when I was a kid.

I had to work through my questions myself. I believe that God guided me.

I don't have all the answers. I do know what I believe. And I do know what I've experienced in a near-death event.

Humans want answers to specific questions. I understand that. And some questions, humans just can't answer.

/johnny

31 posted on 04/26/2012 8:28:13 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: lbryce
I should have included to say that science does by no means pretend to have all the answers

What a bunch of horse hockey. Scientists are pretending to have all the answers provided by science, all the time.

To scoff at questions of where the Universe came from, how does something emerge out of nothing, is easily applied to God. Where did God come from? How did God emerge out of nothingness??

And if you get those answered, then what?

What would change in your life if you had answers to those questions?

Nobody is scoffing at the questions. What is being scoffed at though, is the hypocrisy of demanding answers for those posed about God and being willing to give science a pass for not being able to answer them when it comes to the universe and singularity.

Double standards generally tend to be scoffed at.

Science scoffs at angels and demons and replaces it with ET's.

Science scoffs at heaven and hell and offers up in their place, multiple dimensions and alternate universes.

All scientists do is remove God and believe the same thing they condemn when God is part of the equation.

32 posted on 04/26/2012 8:28:20 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Billthedrill
And this one too:

To find out, his research team had college students perform three thinking tasks, each with an intuitive (incorrect) answer and an analytic (correct) answer.

For example, students were asked this question: "A bat and a ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs $1.00 more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?" The intuitive answer — 10 cents — would be wrong. A little math on the fly reveals that the correct answer would be 5 cents.

33 posted on 04/26/2012 8:29:57 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: lbryce

Things of the spirit can not be understood in the flesh. The deeper my observations of the complexities of what we can see and measure become, the clearer the logic of God becomes to me.


34 posted on 04/26/2012 8:30:08 PM PDT by prov1813man (While the one you despise and ridicule works to protect you, those you embrace work to destroy you)
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To: lbryce

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.” Proverbs 9:10


35 posted on 04/26/2012 8:30:13 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: lbryce

Sometimes a deity is the derivative of intellegence or imagination. Christianity OTH is an unsought for encounter with a a someone who is more and other than his own intellect.


36 posted on 04/26/2012 8:30:24 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: metmom

I disagree. Science does not scoff at god. SOME scientists do, but science does not.


37 posted on 04/26/2012 8:31:50 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: lbryce
Well, this is a theory, and one based on certain assumptions about both religion and science. regarding Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the way that God was know to exist came through revelation, not by metaphysical reflection. As an elegant solution, maybe the God of the philosophers, as Pascal described them, but for him and for people of faith, the God of Abraham and Issac and Jacob is something else.

Polytheism does not in fact give us the idea of a Creator, but only of a myriad of contending forces, pushing mankind from pillar to post. The God of Abraham enters history as a compelling voice that guides a single man and his family for many years and leads them to Egypt and then out of it, revealing himself more powerful than all the gods of the great civilization of Egypt, including with the god-king of Egypt. Israel, the first born of the Lord is freed through the destruction of the First-born of Pharoah. Then he makes covenant with Israel as he has made covenant with Abraham. Like Plato, but by a very different process, Israel comes to believe, through a process of rejection of the many gods, to believe in one. Josephus was convinced that Plato was familiar with Moses.

Modernists like Jews and Christians, note how Judaism and Platonism came together, Jerusalem and Athens, faith and reason, came together in Judaism and Christianity. But while Christianity saw Platonism, or neo-Platonism as kindred in Spirit, yet the Christians were careful to avoid the Platonists tight embrace. For Christianity is rooted in concrete experience not the abstract. What it did provide was the kind of certainly that the world really means something, that it was an intelligent and knowable things, however confusing and unintlelligibe it might seem at times. It was on this foundation that modern science was built, avoiding the skepticism that kept the Greeks from pulling it altogether, even though they had all the elements of physics sand math they needed.

38 posted on 04/26/2012 8:32:20 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: lbryce

Ridiculous. One would think that JP II and Benedict XVI were/are stupid men who could not read or write. Or how about Thomas Aquinas or St. Augustine? Were they not thinkers either?


39 posted on 04/26/2012 8:32:47 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: All
Those that are believers on this thread, and are attacking an unbeliever for unbelief might want to consider how well you are doing at being a witness for Christ.

Do you guide them with your experience, or do you drive them off with scoffing?

/johnny

40 posted on 04/26/2012 8:34:07 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: prov1813man

God does not exist within the parameters of time and space. We do, however. We cannot begin to understand the true nature of god no matter how hard we try.

And that, is really all there is. It is not possible to know. This is why the question is stupid.


41 posted on 04/26/2012 8:35:07 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: lbryce

Ridiculous, I am a thinker and GOD has saved me through Jesus Christ-even using logic at times, and extra Biblical Historical evidence to strengthen my faith in Him!~

-J.S.


42 posted on 04/26/2012 8:36:19 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: mamelukesabre

I already preempted question like yours in post #14. So where did God come from? He’s existed for all eternity, no beginning, no end? Unlikely. God emerging from nothingness? God emerging from nothingness says a lot less about God, the Supreme Being (emerging from nothingness) than it does about the Universe, empty space(coming from nothingness).


43 posted on 04/26/2012 8:38:45 PM PDT by lbryce
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To: avenir

Yep. Hebrews 1, Colossians 1, John 3:17-18.


44 posted on 04/26/2012 8:39:59 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: mamelukesabre

I should have said scientists. They are the ones demanding the godless base of science these days.

Science cannot scoff at anything.

It’s merely a tool. A nice, efficient, data gathering tool at that, but still just a tool.

The analysis of the data falls squarely into the realm of philosophy, something most scientists are in deep denial about judging by the responses of many on these threads.


45 posted on 04/26/2012 8:40:13 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Inyo-Mono

Yeah, I loved that one. Apparently you’re more likely to believe in God if you can’t count correct change. Who knew?


46 posted on 04/26/2012 8:43:25 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: lbryce
I've never come across any religious discussion dealing with God in which 'I don't know' seems a viable response.

Most often it's intellectual suicide to say I don't know--nobody wants that for an answer and it can be a very dull and short discussion. In any case, if you're really interested, the most intellectually rigorous form of I-don't-know that I've come across is in Hans Urs von Balthasar. Try his Presence and Thought: An Essay on the Religious Philosophy of Gregory of Nyssa if you are intellectually fit.

47 posted on 04/26/2012 8:43:52 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: F15Eagle

Don’t forget Romans 1.


48 posted on 04/26/2012 8:44:13 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: mamelukesabre

Because God cannot bring His full presence into this dimension without destroying it, and in place of His presence there are cosmic forces and immutable laws that point subtly to His existence. There is One beyond our existence, that willed this existence to be. That will is present in this plane, and here takes the appearance of these forces and laws. IMO.


49 posted on 04/26/2012 8:44:59 PM PDT by AnTiw1
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To: lbryce
It's easy to lose perspective within one’s own thoughts. The focus is temporary, like everything else.
50 posted on 04/26/2012 8:46:22 PM PDT by allmost
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