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Posted on 04/26/2012 9:30:14 AM PDT by marktwain
Maybe we could come but we’d have to bring three cats and two are blind...
:-)
Hmm, I’m out west.
No it is not.
No record has been presented...
That would be true, inasmuch as I posted nothing about it in this thread...
...of such a groundless speculation
As I said before, it's not a groundless speculation, and you ought to be more careful at declaring people to be liars without having your facts straight.
Specifically, the Ruby Ridge incident occurred during the presidency of George H. W. Bush, near the end of his tenure as president. Wikipedia had the following synopsis:
Ruby Ridge was the site of a deadly confrontation and siege in northern Idaho in 1992. It involved Randy Weaver, his family, Weaver's friend Kevin Harris, and agents of the United States Marshals Service and Federal Bureau of Investigation. It resulted in the death of Weaver's son Sammy, his wife Vicki, and Deputy US Marshal William Francis Degan.
At the subsequent federal criminal trial of Weaver and Harris, Weaver's attorney Gerry Spence made accusations of "criminal wrongdoing" against every agency involved in the incident: the FBI, USMS, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), and the United States Attorney (USAO) for Idaho. At the completion of the trial, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility formed a Ruby Ridge Task Force to investigate Spence's charges. The 1994 Task Force report was released in redacted form by Lexis Counsel Connect and raised questions with the conduct and policy of all the agencies.
Essentially, ATF attempted to entrap Randy Weaver with an NFA violation, then when he was less than cooperative, they staked out his property with Federal Marshals. When the family dog discovered one such marshal in a clump of trees and started barking, the Fed shot the dog, and that's when the firefight started. FBI snipers subsequently moved in and attempted to murder Weaver, and actually did kill several of the civilians at the site. There's more of the story at the link.
The Waco Siege technically occurred during the Clinton administration, although it happened in February of 1993, or one month into Clinton's first term as president. All the personnel on the ground in that fiasco were personnel who had served during the previous administration. The compound was rushed and then besieged on the basis, again, of trumped-up NFA violations.
The way I feel now - if Gingrich is really out of the race - is that without some kind of divine intervention along with human action, we’re in for a long haul of hell.
Reading about him giving up is like a punch in the stomach to me.
Will check out the trailer. I don’t watch TV or movies but on the rare occasion will watch a useful one.
So if a gun dealer goes out of business due to lack of sales then they forward the records to BATF? So then the BATF has a right to them? Well, then I hope they had some hungry dogs.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Tracing Center ATF / Out of Business Records Center 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA Voice 1-800-788-7133 x 1590
Failure to surrender required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to 5 years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business also must notify the Federal Firearms Licensing Center within 30 days."
Probably looking for info on SARAH’s gun ownership.
There should be a website dedicated to naming ATF officials when they break from law, or for that matter just a record of where they have been and what occured. This way patterns of behavior can be detected early.
This needs to be the default response whenever the ATF is on site and asks for anything other than the cost of the diet coke.
This needs to be the default response whenever the ATF is on site and asks for anything other than the cost of the diet coke.
PING A ROO Kathy
Thanks marktwain.
FYI: Have pickup. May be willing to travel to Wash DC if we’ll be kicking butt (figuratively, of course) while there.
not east, out west...announcement is April 30th
In reality, BATF probably should have been disbanded a long time ago. They started out to collect alcohol and tobacco taxes many years ago. I don’t know how they got “Firearms” under their umbrella. Whatever, the agency needs to lose its jurisdiction over “firearms” and it is questionable if they are really needed anymore for the AT portion. Other depts of the federal government can handle that.
“...Reading about him giving up is like a punch in the stomach to me....”
You’re not alone, brother.
Of all of them, I figured Newt would fight it out to Tampa and go to mattresses, so to speak, to stop Romney.
“As I have told the gun shop owners, the ATF has no right to either copy or remove their records and if any attempt is made, they should refuse it.”
Nope. The shop owners should *not* simply refuse aid the ATF thugs with breaking the law.
The shop owners *should* feel obligated to pick up the phone and call the local cops. The local cops should feel obligated to make an arrest of the law breaking fed thugs. The local prosecutors should feel obligated to throw the book at the fed thugs as well.
Or, we can all continue to behave as if we’re all just serfs, tug our forelocks and comply with whatever it is our appointed betters demand.
The gov, any gov, only gets away with this and all the other crap because we refuse to behave as citizens.
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