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To: dangus

Good summary. The only thing you skipped was the sudden death of JPI, who had publicly announced that he intended to correct the errors of Vatican II and even reverse some of the changes. He lasted about 30 days as Pope before they got him.

As for JPII, he started off much stronger but after the assassination attempt, it seemed to me that he backed away and unfortunately took a rather hands-off approach to Church governance. He had many bad people in the Curia, not to mention among the bishops worldwide. There was much open teaching of heresy during his reign, until towards the end when Cardinal Ratzinger had gotten enough power to begin silencing some of the more prominent of these people.

However, the bad bishops continued in power, and only now, with the more recent appointments made by Ratzinger, are we seeing any change in direction.

I think schism is going to happen anyway, at least in the US. The bishops in the US have failed to assert their authority and have allowed everybody from wacky nuns to dissident college presidents to Nancy Pelosi to present themselves as legitimate voices and authorities of the Catholic Church. Obama is going to force the issue in some way that will mean that the orthodox bishops will have to take a stand...at which point the “American Patriotic Church” people such as Nancy Pelosi and the gang will receive the overt support of a few bishops, probably including Wuerl, which will enable them to proclaim themselves to be the “true” Church. The orthodox bishops will be portrayed as interlopers loyal to a foreign power, and will be removed from any control over the assets and general population of the Church.

Avoiding schism by not correcting heresy only allowed it to grow stronger and make its ultimate occurence more likely.


24 posted on 03/20/2012 6:34:42 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

>> The only thing you skipped was the sudden death of JPI, who had publicly announced that he intended to correct the errors of Vatican II and even reverse some of the changes. He lasted about 30 days as Pope before they got him. <<

You don’t have to be paranoid to suspect he was “gotten,” but I’m trying to stick to what’s reasonably well established, not merely what seems uncanny. There were certainly some unusual actions of the Vatican which could be taken as trying to conceal something, but while it’s tempting to speculate what that was, I know of no evidence suggesting that it was a Satanic plot.

I will note this, however, Pope John Paul I also initiated the removal of organized crime from Vatican banking. Fiction, such as the Godfather Part III, has popularized the notion that the mafia assassinated him. In actuality, the organized crime was not the traditional mafia, but Propaganda Due, a MASONIC LODGE! Shockingly, Italian President Silvio Berlusconi was part of that lodge!


26 posted on 03/20/2012 6:48:50 AM PDT by dangus
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To: livius

I also think your assessment, “However, the bad bishops continued in power, “ is a bit harsh, although not false.

John Paul II did not oust Mahony from office, for instance, and he was terribly heretical. His strategy seemed to be simply to inspire more faithful priests to eventually displace the heretics, and this seemed extremely successful, although painfully slow.

And while he didn’t remove heretics, he countered them brilliantly. When he took office, faithful American catholics expected that the church would soon reverse itself on matters like birth control, premarital sex, abortion, the ordination of women. By the time he left, everyone knew these were unthinkable.

Understanding Alinkyite tactics, I don’t believe removing heretics from office could possibly have been successful. If he went after only the worst offenders, their supporters would still have been the vast majority of American bishops, and he would’ve been seen as reactionary, divisive, and irrelevant. If he went after all heretics, there would scarcely be a bishop left in America, and no priests to appoint in their place. Even if he were successful beyond any reasonable expectation, the best he would accomplish would be like ripping dandelion’s heads off. But my estimation is that he simply would have been on the losing end of a schism.

Brute force never succeeded since the days of the reformation. The counter-reformation was accomplished by preaching, praying, and fasting.


27 posted on 03/20/2012 7:01:04 AM PDT by dangus
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