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Dutch Roman Catholic Church 'castrated at least 10 boys'
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | March 19, 2012 | Bruno Waterfield

Posted on 03/20/2012 3:57:30 AM PDT by Bon mots

At least 10 teenage boys or young men under the age of 21 were surgically castrated "to get rid of homosexuality" while in the care of the Dutch Roman Catholic Church in the 1950s.

Evidence of the castrations has emerged amid controversy that it was not included in the findings of an official investigation into sexual abuse within the church last year.

>>>More →

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: castration; church; homosexualagenda; pedophilia; scandal
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Unbelievable... these poor boys were first molested, then when they reported it, they were sent to mental institutions where they were castrated as punishment for reporting these sick, criminal priests.
1 posted on 03/20/2012 3:57:42 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Bon mots

‘Gelderland’?

interesting choice of names.


2 posted on 03/20/2012 4:04:52 AM PDT by Vaquero (Molon Labe)
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To: Bon mots
The elephant in the room -- the one thing that is never discussed in all these stories of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church -- is that it is obvious that homosexuals joined the priesthood to further their predatory goals. How high did that go? I don't know. But the Catholic Church was definitely a magnet for homosexual predators. How could that be otherwise? Why is that never discussed? Whatever the blame that the church itself deserves, at least part of the blame should be reserved for homosexuals -- and homosexuality.

But that is never discussed. Why?

3 posted on 03/20/2012 4:06:12 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: samtheman

They joined the clergy (Catholic and otherwise) for the same reason they became scoutmasters & teachers: easy prey.

During the height of the scandal the Catholic League reported five incidents in five days in NYC public schools - and it received NO coverage. At least the Vatican has banned “celibate” deviants from the seminaries; that was long overdue, and cost them millions (on top of the faith of many of the victims).


4 posted on 03/20/2012 4:10:08 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2
and cost them millions (on top of the faith of many of the victims).

just the victims? more people than that I fear.

5 posted on 03/20/2012 4:12:31 AM PDT by Vaquero (Molon Labe)
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To: kearnyirish2
They joined the clergy (Catholic and otherwise) for the same reason they became scoutmasters & teachers: easy prey.

Just as Judas was one of the 12 original apostles, evil was following Our Lord.

6 posted on 03/20/2012 4:17:29 AM PDT by AmericaUnite (Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. John Ch 8)
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To: Vaquero

“just the victims? more people than that I fear.”

True, though I must say people who hadn’t been to Mass since 1985 used this story from 2002 to justify it retroactively. True Catholics know that men cannot undo the Church founded by Christ (though they should also think twice before donating).


7 posted on 03/20/2012 4:22:01 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: AmericaUnite

Evil was just following the children; our Lord’s Church was just the vehicle for these freaks.


8 posted on 03/20/2012 4:23:12 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: Bon mots

“There are also allegations that Vic Marijnen, a former Dutch Prime Minister, who died in 1975, was linked to the case. “

There is a lot more to this story than meets the eye.


9 posted on 03/20/2012 4:39:37 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Breitbart)
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To: Bon mots

That’s just nuts!


10 posted on 03/20/2012 5:31:11 AM PDT by crosshairs
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To: samtheman

I’ll tell you how high it goes, because we know:

In 1965, a black mass* was held within the Vatican. Pope Paul VI possibly knew for he famously yet cryptically declared that “the smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary.” But apparently, he did not know who was involved. Maddenlingly, Paul VI would issue orthodox, strong, clear dogmatic teaching, such as Humanae Vitae, upholding Catholic doctrines on sexuality, abortion, and birth control, while allowing all manner of liturgical abuse and heresy to not only flourish, but propagate.

One top contender was Fr. Joseph Bernadin, the papal camerlingo (the camerlingo runs the papal household) from Charleston, SC. Charleston is where the Southern Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, which uses a black mass, was founded. Bernadin would, very seperately, be accused of molesting children with the eucharist, which is where any Catholics’ heads should absolutely explode.

Bernadin nonetheless became the golden boy in the American Catholic church. He was promoted to Archbishop of Cincinnati, where he was made the founding head of the National Council of Catholic Bishops (later the USCCB). There, he founded the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, which provides seed money for radical, leftist groups. One group they founded was the ACORN, led by satanist and anarchist Saul Alinsky, whose disciples include Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

At the head of the USCCB, he authorized the publication of the New American Bible, the first edition of which falsely claimed that the ancient church believed in a flat earth, denied the historicity of miracles in the New and Old testament, and included heresy after heresy in the footnotes. (If you anyone owns a New American Bible, and is objecting, hang with me a bit more...) The USCCB made the NAB the required bible of the American Catholic church (which is not to say that people couldn’t privately own other bibles).

Back in the 1960s, priests working with Alinsky had been booted from Chicago when the local archbishop realized how evil they were. They were quickly snatched up by the University of Notre Dame, which soon the Land of Lakes conference. At that conference, nearly every major Catholic university in the United States would declare its intellectual separation from the doctrines of Rome. But in 1982, Bernadin would be made Archbishop of Chicago, and soon would be considered “the American pope.”

As de-facto leader of the Catholic church, Bernadin taught that abortion was wrong, but that voters should consider the totality of a candidate’s charity; there support for “social justice” throughout a lifespan could outweigh the passing mistake of supporting abortion. Meanwhile, he shared an apartment with Milwaukee Archbishop Weakland, who is now openly homosexual. Bernadin and Weakland had both been accused of raping children. Weakland, through his association with Bernadin, ran the liturgical “reforms” of the American Catholic church.

But in 1978, an exorcist was made Pope. At first, he seemingly took the counsel of his papal nuncios and national leaders, having further promoted Bernadin, Mahony, Weakland, etc., But by 1980, at least, the surging tide of homosexual abuse began to decline, according to the analysis by John Jay study. By 1990, the rate had declined over 95%. Almost all of the news stories you hear about even today involve abuse which happened in the first half of John Paul II’s reign, or earlier.

John Paul II appointed as his enforcer of doctrine yet another exorcist, Joseph Ratzinger. You have to understand how rare 20th-century, European exorcists are, to understand what a truly amazing situation it is that the Catholic Church has been led by successive exorcists. By Vatican II, exorcism, used largely to missionize pagan lands, was virtually unheard of in Europe... for hundreds of years!!!

Now, many people have complained that John Paul II and Benedict XVI have “covered up” the abuse. The truth is that long before the media got wind of the problem, abuse rates fell by 95%. I believe, however, that the heretics and informally schismatic rebels controlled far too much of the Catholic church for such a direct campaign.

Had the pope merely ousted the bad guys, they simply would have declared open schism, announced that the Holy Spirit had led them to further reforms “in the spirit of Vatican II,” and they would have ended the institution of the papacy, leading the Catholic Church into a position like the Episcopalian Church, where homosexuality is simply celebrated. Remember, nearly all of the sex-abuse victims were post-pubescent. The response would simply be to “help abuse victims shed their repression, and fully embrace the sexuality God gave them.”

Don’t think that this isn’t happening in other churches! Satan is attacking all Christian churches. He doesn’t even need to do any wierd stuff in the Liberal churches; his minions run them: the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the PCUSA (”first Presbyterian”), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, etc. Don’t abandon these churches! Reclaim the for Christ! Understand that you are fighting a spiritual battle, and you can defeat the present leaders!!!

Pray for correct doctrine in your church.

Pray for correct worship, that all worship will truly be submission to Christ.

Pray to drive out the devil.

But also, beware in the conservative churches. In the Catholic Churches, the virginity of a priest is most valuable; in other churches, the virginity of a young woman is, so the diabolical attacks are on young women. But the sex abuse is rampant, and is being covered up by the church leaders, just as the Catholic Church leaders covered up sexual abuse in the 1970s and 1980s.

Most fraternities and sororities uses sexual degradation and desensitization as part of their initiation. Do not accept people from these fraternities and sororities into your church leadership, unless their repentance has been clear, and their specific sins detailed.

How many church leaders are freemasons? Yes, Washington, et al, were freemasons, but those freemasons had only three degrees, and none of the pagan worship. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry introduced 33 degrees of progressively more pagan rites.

(*Note of explanation: according to Catholic doctrine, a black mass is a mass which makes a mockery of Christ, His Church, His Word, or His Eucharist. In doing such, they are inherently diabolical. They do not necessarily have any obvious worship of the devil. At the same time, any old-time Catholic would recognize the mass as invalid: use of invalid elements in confecting the eucharist, such as honey bread, impure wine, non-noble vessels; omission of key prayers; avoidance of the Holy Name; heretical innovations within key prayers. Malachi Martin’s depiction was quite apparently Satanic, but his account is fictionalized.)


11 posted on 03/20/2012 5:33:09 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

“Most fraternities and sororities uses sexual degradation and desensitization as part of their initiation.”

Just your fraternity, mate. mine didn’t.


12 posted on 03/20/2012 5:38:55 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: dangus

That connects a lot of dots, especially regarding “Land of Lakes.”


13 posted on 03/20/2012 5:39:17 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Bon mots

What a fool believes.


14 posted on 03/20/2012 5:40:38 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (knowledge puffeth; information deludeth.)
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To: dangus

I forgot to include my explanation about the New American Bible.

Since it’s initial publication, the Vatican has directed drastic overhauls. This is why many Catholics will scratch their heads at my initial description. Among Vatican-ordered inclusions:

* Removal of many heretical and faith-depressing notes

* An inclusion of a doctrinal statement that the bible is the inerrant Word of God; Saying that this statement demands the literal interpretation would be an over-simplification; there’s some nuancing on literary styles, given the use of metaphors, but I’d dare say that fundamentalists and evangelicals would approve of such nuance; it’s a direct rebuttal of the sort of “myth” blather from the first edition.

* A substantial re-translation of the Old Testament in the 2nd edition, and of the New Testament in the 3rd edition.

It’s still not my favorite translation. It needlessly translates some idioms, losing not only some of the poetry, but the spirituality, of older translations and the original text. (Is there really any danger someone might thing that St. Stephen took a nap as he was being stoned? Can’t they see where “fell asleep” inspires faith in ways that “died” doesn’t?) But the rampant heresy is gone.


15 posted on 03/20/2012 5:44:06 AM PDT by dangus
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To: AppyPappy

I never joined a fraternity. On my campus (and this was before some reforms were necessitated by an endless string of deaths, nationally), the “marketing” was purely about binge-drinking, and thus, didn’t interest me in the slightest. What fraternity were you in?

(I never could understand how they were allowed to post signs advertising to 18-year-olds for on-campus parties with 60! 70! 150! kegs. Nor could I understand why they needed 60, 70, 150 kegs for parties which I imagine couldn’t’ve been for more than 100 or 200 students.)


16 posted on 03/20/2012 5:49:35 AM PDT by dangus
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To: NYer

Your comment please.


17 posted on 03/20/2012 5:52:17 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: dangus

So if you were never in a fraternity, how do you know what they do?

We didn’t have “binge-drinking” back then. We just drank.

“I never could understand how they were allowed to post signs advertising to 18-year-olds for on-campus parties with 60! 70! 150! kegs”

Probably the First Amendment had something to do with it. You didn’t have to use that many kegs.


18 posted on 03/20/2012 5:54:32 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: dangus

>> Don’t abandon these churches! <<

I rather wish I had chosen different wording. As a Catholic, I believe that those led by the Holy Spirit to do so, MUST come to the Catholic Church. But however imperfect the Protestant churches are, the Holy Spirit does work within them, and those who know Christ can produce, through the working of the Holy Spirit within them.

What I wanted to express is my opposition to the solution of simply abandoning all Christian institutions to Satan, by ever finer splintering of denominational families. Clinging to life-rafts is no way to raise an armada. If, while fighting such spiritual warfare, anyone is inspired to join the Catholic church, praise God! But I expect that any Protestant may seem the wisdom of my encouragement to prayer; if they disagree with where it might take them, so be it.


19 posted on 03/20/2012 6:02:56 AM PDT by dangus
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To: AppyPappy

>> Probably the First Amendment had something to do with it. <<

Oh, sure, you’re free to say, “Hey, Look at me! I’m committing a crime!!!” But if you get busted for that crime, don’t complain that it’s your first amendment rights which were violated; it’s the crime that’s at issue, the foolish announcement just led the police to the crime.

By the way, from a natural-law perspective, I don’t believe that 18-year-olds drinking is a crime. I lament that raising the drinking age drove people into fraternities, where binge drinking absolutely was an epidemic in the late 1980s. Previously, any few freinds could share some booze in their dorms, or go to a bar... after they raised the drinking age, they had to put up with all that frat crap.

Don’t tell me there wasn’t binge drinking. The floor of the dorm halls were coated in puke on any given Saturday morning... and everyone was saying, “oh, man, I got so f***ing wasted!!!” Not to mention the drunken screaming out the windows, the stench of bongwater...


20 posted on 03/20/2012 6:16:50 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Bon mots

10 boys????? What’s so shocking about that?

Here in the U.S. most of congress has been castrated.


21 posted on 03/20/2012 6:17:47 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: dangus
As de-facto leader of the Catholic church, Bernadin taught that abortion was wrong, but that voters should consider the totality of a candidate’s charity; there support for “social justice” throughout a lifespan could outweigh the passing mistake of supporting abortion.

Very interesting.

My brother-in-law is a (highly) significant leader in the Holy Cross order. Ordained at Notre Dame in 1987. Has many Chicago connections and spent about 5 years there as a fundraiser/headmaster for Holy Cross Catholic schools. While he's not a child molester, nor is he gay, he neverthelss has made the promotion of "diversity" a significant issue.

When I asked how he reconciles his support for democrats and the Catholic opposition to abortion, he gave the response, almost word-for-word "consider the totality of a candidate’s charity"

22 posted on 03/20/2012 6:31:30 AM PDT by kidd
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To: dangus
I can't respond to all your comments but this one I find most interesting, Can you share some specifics on these footnotes, etc.? Just a few will do, thank you.

“At the head of the USCCB, he authorized the publication of the New American Bible, the first edition of which falsely claimed that the ancient church believed in a flat earth, denied the historicity of miracles in the New and Old testament, and included heresy after heresy in the footnotes. (If you anyone owns a New American Bible, and is objecting, hang with me a bit more...)”

23 posted on 03/20/2012 6:34:08 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: dangus

Good summary. The only thing you skipped was the sudden death of JPI, who had publicly announced that he intended to correct the errors of Vatican II and even reverse some of the changes. He lasted about 30 days as Pope before they got him.

As for JPII, he started off much stronger but after the assassination attempt, it seemed to me that he backed away and unfortunately took a rather hands-off approach to Church governance. He had many bad people in the Curia, not to mention among the bishops worldwide. There was much open teaching of heresy during his reign, until towards the end when Cardinal Ratzinger had gotten enough power to begin silencing some of the more prominent of these people.

However, the bad bishops continued in power, and only now, with the more recent appointments made by Ratzinger, are we seeing any change in direction.

I think schism is going to happen anyway, at least in the US. The bishops in the US have failed to assert their authority and have allowed everybody from wacky nuns to dissident college presidents to Nancy Pelosi to present themselves as legitimate voices and authorities of the Catholic Church. Obama is going to force the issue in some way that will mean that the orthodox bishops will have to take a stand...at which point the “American Patriotic Church” people such as Nancy Pelosi and the gang will receive the overt support of a few bishops, probably including Wuerl, which will enable them to proclaim themselves to be the “true” Church. The orthodox bishops will be portrayed as interlopers loyal to a foreign power, and will be removed from any control over the assets and general population of the Church.

Avoiding schism by not correcting heresy only allowed it to grow stronger and make its ultimate occurence more likely.


24 posted on 03/20/2012 6:34:42 AM PDT by livius
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To: Bon mots

In fairness:

1. The priests who committed the sexual abuse actually were reported to the police, arrested and convicted.

2. As a result of the abuse, it’s entirely plausible that the victims began to experience homosexuality themselves, and quite possibly discerned a danger of becoming sexual predators themselves.

3. Even today, castration is considered a reasonable way to help someone inclined to be a sexual predator from acting in such a way. It has declined only because it has been demonstrated to be ineffective.

The notion that the castration was “punishment” for reporting the priests is understandable, but simply baseless.


25 posted on 03/20/2012 6:40:03 AM PDT by dangus
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To: livius

>> The only thing you skipped was the sudden death of JPI, who had publicly announced that he intended to correct the errors of Vatican II and even reverse some of the changes. He lasted about 30 days as Pope before they got him. <<

You don’t have to be paranoid to suspect he was “gotten,” but I’m trying to stick to what’s reasonably well established, not merely what seems uncanny. There were certainly some unusual actions of the Vatican which could be taken as trying to conceal something, but while it’s tempting to speculate what that was, I know of no evidence suggesting that it was a Satanic plot.

I will note this, however, Pope John Paul I also initiated the removal of organized crime from Vatican banking. Fiction, such as the Godfather Part III, has popularized the notion that the mafia assassinated him. In actuality, the organized crime was not the traditional mafia, but Propaganda Due, a MASONIC LODGE! Shockingly, Italian President Silvio Berlusconi was part of that lodge!


26 posted on 03/20/2012 6:48:50 AM PDT by dangus
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To: livius

I also think your assessment, “However, the bad bishops continued in power, “ is a bit harsh, although not false.

John Paul II did not oust Mahony from office, for instance, and he was terribly heretical. His strategy seemed to be simply to inspire more faithful priests to eventually displace the heretics, and this seemed extremely successful, although painfully slow.

And while he didn’t remove heretics, he countered them brilliantly. When he took office, faithful American catholics expected that the church would soon reverse itself on matters like birth control, premarital sex, abortion, the ordination of women. By the time he left, everyone knew these were unthinkable.

Understanding Alinkyite tactics, I don’t believe removing heretics from office could possibly have been successful. If he went after only the worst offenders, their supporters would still have been the vast majority of American bishops, and he would’ve been seen as reactionary, divisive, and irrelevant. If he went after all heretics, there would scarcely be a bishop left in America, and no priests to appoint in their place. Even if he were successful beyond any reasonable expectation, the best he would accomplish would be like ripping dandelion’s heads off. But my estimation is that he simply would have been on the losing end of a schism.

Brute force never succeeded since the days of the reformation. The counter-reformation was accomplished by preaching, praying, and fasting.


27 posted on 03/20/2012 7:01:04 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus; AppyPappy

You didn’t have to be in a fraternity or sorority to binge drink or get high until you puke.

It was a general college experience.


28 posted on 03/20/2012 7:06:15 AM PDT by SpinnerWebb (In 2012 you will awaken from your HOPEnosis and have no recollection of this... "Constitution")
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To: SpinnerWebb

Well, I’m not going to argue with THAT. But that wasn’t the thrust of anything I wrote.


29 posted on 03/20/2012 7:08:09 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

I should be more careful in my wording.

Mahony was smart enough to avoid formal heresy. He trapped Mother Angelica good, when she noted that his explanation of the Eucharist had nothing to do with transubstantiation: he didn’t actually deny it, and, despite her apologies for her poor choice of words and lack of charity in interpreting Mahony’s remarks, Mahony was pretty much able to ruin her.

What I mean to say is that Mahony allowed all manner of outrage and faithless teaching in his diocese, while sicking his dogs on those who taught the truth. Mahony didn’t merely fail to present the whole picture: his comments about the eucharist which Mother Angelica picked up on were not actually FALSE, but so lacking in any important truth as to constitute grave falsehood. If someone were to describe their marriage as “yeah, I bang her most Saturdays for something to do,” would you not be outraged? Yes, marriage includes sexuality, which is enjoyable, so the statement isn’t wrong, but is horrifyingly disrespectful.


30 posted on 03/20/2012 7:17:51 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

I should be more careful in my wording.

Mahony was smart enough to avoid formal heresy. He trapped Mother Angelica good, when she noted that his explanation of the Eucharist had nothing to do with transubstantiation: he didn’t actually deny it, and, despite her apologies for her poor choice of words and lack of charity in interpreting Mahony’s remarks, Mahony was pretty much able to ruin her.

What I mean to say is that Mahony allowed all manner of outrage and faithless teaching in his diocese, while sicking his dogs on those who taught the truth. Mahony didn’t merely fail to present the whole picture: his comments about the eucharist which Mother Angelica picked up on were not actually FALSE, but so lacking in any important truth as to constitute grave falsehood. If someone were to describe their marriage as “yeah, I bang her most Saturdays for something to do,” would you not be outraged? Yes, marriage includes sexuality, which is enjoyable, so the statement isn’t wrong, but is horrifyingly disrespectful.


31 posted on 03/20/2012 7:17:59 AM PDT by dangus
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To: AppyPappy; dangus
“Most fraternities and sororities uses sexual degradation and desensitization as part of their initiation.”

Just your fraternity, mate. mine didn’t.

Nor mine.

32 posted on 03/20/2012 7:19:54 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: dangus

“If he went after all heretics, there would scarcely be a bishop left in America, and no priests to appoint in their place.” - D

What is the value in preserving such an entity?

Would it not be better to start over, based on the proper teachings of Christ?


33 posted on 03/20/2012 7:40:16 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Triple

>> What is the value in preserving such an entity?<<

The reform of the institution is being remarkably successful. Get back to me when you’ve succeeded at driving the heresy out of any of the Protestant churches, and we’ll discuss unity.

>> Would it not be better to start over, based on the proper teachings of Christ? <<

Yeah, it’s called “establishing orthodoxy.” It’s exactly what John Paul II and Benedict XVI are doing. Or wait, you weren’t suggesting that we pile on all kinds of *new* radical innovations, were you?


34 posted on 03/20/2012 8:29:48 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Not interested in the Protestant church.

As long as the likes of cardinal law sit in Rome in a place of honor - the church has done too little to cleanse itself from evil.


35 posted on 03/20/2012 8:59:31 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Triple

Cardinal Law is a museum curator.

People don’t understand what happened with him:

Each Cardinal is given an historical church to be the nominal pastor of, since the electors of the Pope were historically the pastors of Rome. Since they too busy being archbishop, normally a “parochial vicar” is named to manage the day-to-day functions of the Roman church led by a Cardinal. When Law was removed from his post as Archbishop, he went back to being pastor of his Roman parish... which is now more of a museum than a functional parish; mostly only tourists go to mass there, and they’re responsible to their pastors back home.

If Law simply had resigned as archbishop, people would presume he had been granted retirement, since he was getting rather elderly. The fact that he now works at another assignment signifies to the world, “No, he’s not retired; he is simply regarded as not competent to fulfill his duties as archbishop.”


36 posted on 03/20/2012 10:32:27 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Hulka
Your comment please.

To say I am shocked by this story is an understatement; these actions are inexcusable. Not having grown up in Holland, I can't imagine how anyone could have justified these actions. There is a history, in the field of music, of young boys being castrated. During puberty a boy's vocal chords enlarge enormously, caused by an increased production of anderogen hormones. Castration prevented the necessary flow of hormones and arrested growth. Afterwards the castrato would have the high voice of a boy soprano, but the lung power of a full-grown man. Composers wrote music for this particular voice. However, the last performance of an operatic castrato in an opera was in London in 1825.

The Dutch culture is quite different from what we know in the US. They legalized prostitution decades ago. They legalized assisted suicide in 1994. It's a complex culture. Insofar as the Catholic Church in the Netherlands, I think you may find more detailed information here.

37 posted on 03/20/2012 1:43:43 PM PDT by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: NYer; Hulka

The problem I have with this is that the Dutch government or culture is NOT the Catholic Church; and, therefore, there is no excuse. Just more fodder for the Catholic bashers, I’m afraid.


38 posted on 03/20/2012 1:50:26 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: samtheman

The story talks about minors having the castration done on them. What does that have to do with homosexuals becoming priests?


39 posted on 03/20/2012 1:51:49 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: dangus
molesting children with the eucharist

What exactly does that mean?

40 posted on 03/20/2012 2:27:33 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon

You don’t want to know. But it’s the worst sacrilege you can imagine.


41 posted on 03/20/2012 2:52:57 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Law got a cushy Job in Rome.

Away from the many families he helped ruin.

Justice would dictate that he be excommunicated in my view.

You call this reform?

I call it a disgrace that could be remedied with the stroke of a pen.


42 posted on 03/20/2012 3:01:32 PM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: NYer

Thank you, sir.

Whenever I come across a “Catholic” thread of note, I always am interested in hearing your thoughts and opinion on the subject.

You can be relied on to cut through the nonsense and provide sound insight and commentary.


43 posted on 03/20/2012 4:18:09 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: crosshairs; Hulka; NYer; dangus; livius; Vaquero; Bon mots
I read this yesterday at Lucianne.com, and two thing I noticed was that the people who (50-60 years ago) allegedly made the decision or did the castrating, are all dead; and all of them were psychiatrists and MD's. So why doesn't the screaming headline scream something like, "Two generations ago, Dutch psychiatrists castrated boys"?

Why? Because "the Church" did no such thing; and it's no fun putting the blame on psychiatrists.

The fact is that more than a few psychiatrists of the late 19th and through most of the 20th centuries, acting on elaborate eugenicist and behaviorist beliefs, committed systematic aggressions upon people with persistent sexual and other disorders; homosexuals were among their victims, though not the only ones.

It was the Catholic Church's doctrines which were then, and are now, the main bulwarks of resistance against eugenicist and behaviorist "therapetic abuse" of medically dependent persons.

If this indeed happened (and we know it happened because of unnamed sources 60 years later?) it would be because that institution, even if calling itself "Catholic," was staffed by people promoting and acting upon the secular psychiatric ideologies of the day, and not the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

(BTW, psychiatrists and their associated surgeons still castrate boys: but now it's done to cure [accommodate, adjust, restructure] transsexuals, and not homosexuals. And it's presented as humane, enlightened, and progressive: a right, not a mutilation.)

These Dutch psychiatrists: it's a little late to say "hang 'em" 60 years later, but God knows they may all presently be in hell.

44 posted on 03/21/2012 10:13:40 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stet.)
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To: Triple; dangus
This is a poorly supported argument. Church law, like secular law, involves procedural due process; and the Church, having few investigative resources, often has to depend on secular law to establish the facts in a criminal allegation. In Cardinal law's case, rightly or wrongly, he was never convicted of a crime. So what do you base excommunication on, absent manifest violation?

If there were solid evidence of crime on the part of Cardinal Law, nothing in US and International law would have shielded from extradition or indictment. Certainly not the mere fact that he is now resident in Rome. (He could be picked up by the Italian police any day as he traveled to and from Sta. Maria Maggiore, which is on Italian, not Vatican City, territory.)

The fact is that, regrettably as it may seem to many, criminal charges have never been ledged against Law, and nobody has requested his extradition. If you've got actionable facts that the prosecutors don't have, why don't you forward it to the prosecutors and make sure charges are pursued? I, for one, am all for the criminal indictiment of anyone, laity or clergy, againt whom there is credible evidence and probable cause.

Then on the basis of successful criminal prosecution, you can talk about ecclesiastical penalties. The fact that the Vatican removed Bernard Law from leadership of a powerful Archdiocese, and put him in charge of managing Sta Maria Maggiore with no pastoral authority,tells you what they think of his pastoral competence.

My facts here are what I can remember from ten years ago. If any of this has changed, I will be grateful to be corrected.

45 posted on 03/21/2012 10:30:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stet.)
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To: Triple; dangus
OK, I asked about more current info. Here's the update.

Cardinal Law was fully investigated by the state attorney general and the district attorneys in the 5 counties of the Archdiocese. He gave evidence before two grand juries. The state attorney general, after several years of horrible press and intense scrutiny, concluded that Law had not tried to evade investigation and had not broken any laws.

Upon turning 80 last November, Law became ineligible to participate in any papal conclave or to hold any Curial memberships, and was replaced as archpriest of Sta Maria Maggiore by Archbishop Santos Abril y Castelló

'K?

46 posted on 03/21/2012 11:04:09 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stet.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It is not OK.

Cardinal Law presided over the shuttling around of known predatory homosexual pederast priests. He enabled, or allowed others under his authority to place these priests in positions where they could and did commit further attacks on boys.

Lives were ruined, families were devastated, and the faith in the Church of untold numbers of Catholics was diminished.

I believe all of the above is uncontested fact.

Criminal law/prosecution is irrelevant.

How can anyone claim reform while this behavior is accepted in the highest offices of the Church?

He should have been expelled from the Church, not given *any* job in Rome, no matter how small you portray it to be.


47 posted on 03/21/2012 11:17:10 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Very astute observations. Thanks for the follow up post and ping.


48 posted on 03/21/2012 11:28:21 AM PDT by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: Triple; NYer
I read the same press you did 10 years ago, and I remember that Law's apparent protection of priests with credible allegations against them, made me horribly distressed and ashamed. Me and millions of others. However if there were no charges at any time of criminal abuse or neglect, nor of actionable negligence, all the Vatican had to go on was pastoral failure (in the sense of ongoing grave errors of judgment.)

Concluding that there was no criminal action or intent (which the state did, after intense investigation) and in view of Law's repentance of his pastoral failure, the Church did the right thing in depriving him of pastoral office.

Some seem scandalized by the fact that, while being barred from any pastoral role, Law he was given the opportunity of doing some good in his remaining years. Repentant sinners are not excommunicated, it's true. If that's what you prefer, there are other, better ways to think about it.

49 posted on 03/21/2012 12:00:08 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stet.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Triple

Thanks, Mrs. Don-o.


50 posted on 03/21/2012 2:12:12 PM PDT by dangus
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