Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

US May Sell Israel Advanced 'Bunker-Busters' Enabling Iran Strike
The Times of Israel ^ | March 7, 2012 | By Aaron Kalman

Posted on 03/07/2012 6:39:49 AM PST by Strategy

The US might sell Israel special arms and munitions that would enable an Israeli strike on Iran, an unnamed military source told Army Radio Tuesday night.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bunkerbuster; iran; islam; israel; middleeast
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-74 next last

1 posted on 03/07/2012 6:40:02 AM PST by Strategy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Strategy

I would be surprised but that would be good


2 posted on 03/07/2012 6:47:27 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

Other news reports indicate that Israel has already received
the 30K MOPs; that O told Netanyahu the MOPs may not destroy the underground facilities; the alternative is to seal the shafts and entries into the facilities and slowly kill off the occupants.

BTW O inherited the improved MOPs from Bush.


3 posted on 03/07/2012 6:50:48 AM PST by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. We need a solvent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

“may”?

I thought we already did?

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/24/140773755/u-s-sells-bunker-busters-to-israel

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/23/president-obama-secretly-approved-transfer-of-bunker-buster-bombs-to-israel.html


4 posted on 03/07/2012 6:52:54 AM PST by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

My understanding is Iran uses a special type concrete. Harder than the norm. Built to withstand earthquakes. Natural and “man-made...”


5 posted on 03/07/2012 6:59:28 AM PST by donozark (A soldier lives as long as he is remembered...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Strategy
The Iranian facilities are so far underground that short of a bunker-busting nuke nothing may work. Obama has fought for 6 years from keeping an attack on the Iranian facility and for those 6 years the Iranians have dug deeper and deeper knowing the likes of Obama won't be in office forever.
6 posted on 03/07/2012 7:02:57 AM PST by tobyhill (Fight Fire With Fire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tobyhill
The Iranian facilities are so far underground that short of a bunker-busting nuke nothing may work. Obama has fought for 6 years from keeping an attack on the Iranian facility and for those 6 years the Iranians have dug deeper and deeper knowing the likes of Obama won't be in office forever.

Well gee, if these nuclear generators were built for peaceful purposes only for electrical generation, why would they have to bury them deep below mountains? That makes no sense. /sarc
7 posted on 03/07/2012 7:06:39 AM PST by crosshairs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: donozark

My understanding is Iran uses a special type concrete. Harder than the norm. Built to withstand earthquakes. Natural and “man-made...”


Did they use the ‘super-dooper’ ceement on the roads, bridges, and tunnels into the complexes as well ?

Did they use it on the housing complex of the troops protecting the complex ?


8 posted on 03/07/2012 7:07:49 AM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

9 posted on 03/07/2012 7:10:32 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

I wonder how many of those bombs will actually go off when dropped?

The Emperor of the USSA wouldn’t sell his friend Bibi a bunch of DUDs, would he?

Obama might be capable of taqiyya, but hudna? Naaaaah....

Israel can TRUST Obama; he’s not LIKE the OTHERS! /s

It will probably take an act of G*D to dislodge the Madhi worshipers... this might be interesting to watch.


10 posted on 03/07/2012 7:14:09 AM PST by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maine yankee

Maybe they used more rebar.


11 posted on 03/07/2012 7:14:12 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

Coded ... and I agree.


12 posted on 03/07/2012 7:16:14 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: maine yankee
Maybe the troops are bivouacked underground as well? Approaches can be bypassed.

Point is, over reliance on aerial assets can be costly in terms of accomplishing the mission. Otherwise the capture of the Mountain of the Crouching Beast would have been a cake-walk. The Tunnels of Cu Chi would no longer be a tourist destination. And they were but earthen works...UHPC seems to have caught the interest of the Pentagon. Sure the IDF has not overlooked it either....

13 posted on 03/07/2012 7:20:01 AM PST by donozark (A soldier lives as long as he is remembered...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; maine yankee

Nothing secret about Fibercrete:

http://www.superior-industries.com/tech_data_page_297.html

All you need is a good source of silica sand, like a desert...

Fiberglass also makes concrete flexible so it gives instead of cracking. The trick is to layer it with blacktop layers and it becomes a laminate like a compound bow.

Dog-gone-it, Iran’s been spying on Home Depot.


14 posted on 03/07/2012 7:31:11 AM PST by gandalftb (11th MEU, 2/4 Echo, TRAP Force)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

The MOP is huge, so huge only the B-52 and the B-2 can carry it.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mopping-up-the-usas-30000-pound-bomb-03172/

I suspect news reports like this one are to provide a smoke-screen/cover for US actions in support an attack on Iran. You see, in my guess and the way I would do it, the US would fly the B-2 (low profile) as part of an Israeli attack. The US B-2 drops the MOP that destroys the deeply buried bunkers/facilities while at the same time the Israelis attack the entrances of the buried Iranian nuclear facilities to entomb the rest.


15 posted on 03/07/2012 7:34:14 AM PST by Hulka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

Not complaining about your post in any way, but this is an example of how bad journalism has become.

They are simply reporting rumors of what might happen.

It’s like “Sun may come up in East tomorrow!”


16 posted on 03/07/2012 7:34:26 AM PST by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

Big talk in the run-up to the election in Nov. After the election, Obama will renege.


17 posted on 03/07/2012 7:38:34 AM PST by RoosterRedux (Newt: Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less. Barack Obama: Have Algae, Pay More, Be Weird.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We had not. . .news report to the contrary.

The MOP is too big for ANY Israeli jet. It simply can’t fit on their jets.

And, an FMS sale/transfer has a hard requirement for Congressional approval and that would never happen.

And, times two, any FMS sale/transfer like this would require thousands of people keeping silent about the weapon being transferred to a country that can’t even fit the darned thing on their own aircraft. It would be useless.

And, times three, right now we don’t have that many in our own inventory as it is still under development.

Another Post of mine (above) above has other comments.


18 posted on 03/07/2012 7:40:16 AM PST by Hulka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

Here is the tactical problem:

Iran is well aware of Israel’s (rightful) intentions and America’s weapons, and have up-armored every critical process in their nuclear weapons program.

Tunneling is something that Iran has always done better than any country in the world, throughout history, it’s an engineering fact.

Israel’s goal is to attack, not to necessarily succeed. A show of strength at a minimum.

America has a different challenge, we cannot participate in an attack that doesn’t win. If our bunker-busters don’t work, we lose the credibility of that weapon system.

The world will then know that anyone, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Myanmar, Pakistan, etc can hide evil underground.

Our military planners doubt the bunker-busters will work.

De-mystifying ground penetration bombs ends their diplomatic and strategic use.

OK, everyone will know how deep to dig.

And...Iran will learn from any failed attack that it cannot be stopped by Israel or America. They will bray like a pack of mules at the world...and be believed.

I believe that Iran wants to be attacked.


19 posted on 03/07/2012 7:46:17 AM PST by gandalftb (11th MEU, 2/4 Echo, TRAP Force)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb

-——Fiberglass also makes concrete flexible so it gives instead of cracking. The trick is to layer it with blacktop layers and it becomes a laminate like a compound bow.———

Makes sense.

Is it even remotely possible that Israel puts troops on the ground? It seems like a ground force will be necessary. They could have smuggled in soldiers and armaments over the past decade....

OK, everyone’s entitled to some wild speculation.


20 posted on 03/07/2012 7:50:30 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Hulka

Reports are, they were sold GBU-28’s (not MOP)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/gbu-28.htm


21 posted on 03/07/2012 7:51:26 AM PST by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb

As long as people can get into the bunkers, so can the Israelis.


22 posted on 03/07/2012 7:58:24 AM PST by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: meatloaf

Fordu is completely self-contained, tight as a sub under 500-2,500 feet of rock.

They have over 100 kilos of 20%, enough for one bomb right now if they want to go to 90%+.

Once you get to 20% you only need 3 cascades and about 20 people in about three months to get to 90%.

They’ve thought of infiltrators.


23 posted on 03/07/2012 8:08:38 AM PST by gandalftb (11th MEU, 2/4 Echo, TRAP Force)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Hulka
Determine resonate frequency of structure. Write program for detonation sequence, drop 3 MOPs at three fixed elevations, detonate in sequence to “ring the bell”.

Follow with shaped rdx shelled U235 with PU core and infiltrate what's left with neutrons.

Plausible deniability of radioactive half life footprint due to the nature of the target.

Nothing living will survive. No one would ever know.

24 posted on 03/07/2012 8:27:08 AM PST by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 444Flyer

bookmark

SSD


25 posted on 03/07/2012 8:32:17 AM PST by 444Flyer (~Leaning on the everlasting arms~ (Deuteronomy 33:27) (John 3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

26 posted on 03/07/2012 8:40:01 AM PST by mulder1 ("The past is prologue.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
We probably will not sell them bunker buster bombs... remember, we would not even sell them cluster bombs to hit the thousands of missile sites and factories the Pali's had.
And that was under Bush... so no-one can tell me obama will sell them ground penetrators to get the Iranian nuke factories. The Israel's need to look elsewhere for the tools.
27 posted on 03/07/2012 8:54:26 AM PST by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

I thought Israel already had them.


28 posted on 03/07/2012 8:57:21 AM PST by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cheerio

The MOAB is for soft targets on the surface.


29 posted on 03/07/2012 8:57:35 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon

Drop two conventional MOP’s and follow up with a third with a tactical nuke in it.


30 posted on 03/07/2012 9:33:54 AM PST by Thunder90 (Romney barely won in OH with a 12-1 money advantage, he can't beat Obama that way.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
The over reliance placed on aerial assets by so many, amazes me. After the aforementioned examples (post 13)and the more recent Kosovo Campaign, where 90% of Serbian Military assets withdrew unharmed, pretty much nails the argument shut.

Old saying,"Never wound a King." If in fact Israel/USA hit Iran? Then we better f'ing hit them! HARD!!!

31 posted on 03/07/2012 9:39:00 AM PST by donozark (A soldier lives as long as he is remembered...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

October Surprise coming

Have to get the Won re-elected somehow, he can’t run on his record.


32 posted on 03/07/2012 10:20:31 AM PST by hattend (Jesus wants me to make churches pay for abortions. - Barack Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mulder1

I saw that on Facebook yesterday. I had no idea we had that many F-16s at one Korean base that could all be running, ready for war, at the same time.

Awesome


33 posted on 03/07/2012 10:25:15 AM PST by hattend (Jesus wants me to make churches pay for abortions. - Barack Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

There’s WAY TOO MUCH national security information going public these days. Keep the bad guys guessing!


34 posted on 03/07/2012 10:35:15 AM PST by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb

I’m sure they’ve thought of infiltrators.


35 posted on 03/07/2012 10:35:28 AM PST by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Strategy

Why not a hardened whatever pointed tube with an x megaton crowdpleaser in it delivered from orbital speed with rocket boost? If nothing else, it would make a nice light show on its way to the target with a pretty good thump when it hits.


36 posted on 03/07/2012 10:45:32 AM PST by soycd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tobyhill
We (or Israel, most likely) don't need to destroy the facilities. We only need to make the them "UNIHABITABLE".

37 posted on 03/07/2012 10:53:07 AM PST by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

Drats.. That’s “UNINHABITABLE”!


38 posted on 03/07/2012 11:00:25 AM PST by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Strategy
All this talk about MOPs and the near impossibility of destroying the underground facilities with any known ordinance. Why no discussion of Israel simply nuking the Persians...
39 posted on 03/07/2012 11:09:14 AM PST by Truth29
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoosterRedux; All

The article says “”M A Y “” not WILL....nothing to go back on his word on.


40 posted on 03/07/2012 11:17:24 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

The MOP is an enormous weapon that only the B-2 and the B-52 can carry after special modifications. Israel does not have a single aircraft that can carry the MOP. Not even our own B-1 bombers can carry the MOP since its three bays are segmented and don’t have enough space to hold the long and heavy MOP.


41 posted on 03/07/2012 11:18:53 AM PST by CCGuy (USAF (Ret.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Hulka

I think that C-130s can drop MOPs as well. They were the initial delivery platform for MOAB and the primary one for the old BLU daisy cutters. Deployment method I’d to roll them out the back with the Herk in a slight climb, then allow gravity and GPS do the rest.

The sanity of relying on a C-130 as the delivery platform in a high threat environment is another matter entirely.


42 posted on 03/07/2012 11:22:10 AM PST by tanknetter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: tanknetter

Yeah a C-130 delivery could probably be done, but it would be a suicide mission with about a 5% chance of even making it to the target, let alone getting home.

I would worry about speed also though as the speed of the MOP on delivery is a big part of the equation to penetrate as deeply as possible. They really need to stick a rocket on the back and make it even stronger. I have heard rumors that such modifications are being considered.


43 posted on 03/07/2012 11:28:10 AM PST by CCGuy (USAF (Ret.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: CCGuy

Why not just put wings on it and fly it in as a drone? Kamikaze mission without a pilot! We just have to be sure they can’t hijack it.


44 posted on 03/07/2012 11:33:31 AM PST by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Strategy
Send the bunker busters to Israel on board our B-2 stealth bombers, land them in Israel and let Israel send those bunker busters to Iran by airmail!
45 posted on 03/07/2012 11:54:13 AM PST by paratrooper82 (We are kicking Ass in Afghanistan, soon we will be home to kick some more Asses in Congress!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoosterRedux
Big talk in the run-up to the election in Nov. After the election, Obama will renege.


Yes sir!

There is no chance at all that Obama will betray his brothers in Iran. And, not only with Israel, he would just as soon betray those dirty Infidel Jew worshipers in the Great Satan to protect his kind. He has already given them our latest drone technology on a silver platter.

Obama loves Iran. That is all there is to it. I really do believe his is a Shite. I mean I always knew he was Muslim, but what kind of Muslim is becoming clear.

46 posted on 03/07/2012 12:01:37 PM PST by 240B (he is doing everything he said he wouldn't and not doing what he said he would)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb

“Tunneling is something that Iran has always done better than any country in the world, throughout history, it’s an engineering fact.”

Very interesting. Have a source or two for that?

TIA!


47 posted on 03/07/2012 12:08:06 PM PST by Yehuda
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 240B

I’ve always wondered if 0bama’s security was the ‘Nation of Islam’ with Secret Service suits on.


48 posted on 03/07/2012 12:08:11 PM PST by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: donozark
Actually, airpower was decisive in the campaign you are referring: http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2000/June%202000/0600myths.aspx

Excellent read and the argument is hardly nailed-shut. In fact, airpower can be effective as the ONLY force used. . .heck, we saw that back when Israel attacked Iraq's nuclear facilities. . . knocked them off that track.

And Gulf War I we had a strategic air campaign that cut-off and destroyed a huge standing army. . .so much destroyed it that the ground campaign was essentially there to physically push them out of Kuwait. They couldn't move because if they did, they died.

The ground campaign was in support of the air campaign.

First time in history, I believe.

49 posted on 03/07/2012 12:55:30 PM PST by Hulka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: tanknetter

Actually, not really, the C-130 can’t deliver the munition.

MOAB is a completely different system and not designed to penetrate.

MOP is a guided penetrator and requires specific launch cues.

Good thought, though.


50 posted on 03/07/2012 12:59:15 PM PST by Hulka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-74 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson