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Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say
UK Telegraph ^ | February 29, 2012 | Stephen Adams

Posted on 02/29/2012 12:48:43 PM PST by Pinkbell

The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

Rather than being “actual persons”, newborns were “potential persons”. They explained: “Both a fetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a ‘person’ in the sense of ‘subject of a moral right to life’.

“We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.”

As such they argued it was “not possible to damage a newborn by preventing her from developing the potentiality to become a person in the morally relevant sense”.

The authors therefore concluded that “what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled”.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; corruption; crushliberalism; democrats; duplicate; ethics; eugenics; fourthreich; healthcare; infanticide; liberalfascism; liberalism; liberals; moralabsolutes; moralcollapse; murder; obama; obamacare; progressives; prolife; satan; satanic
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To: Pinkbell
There will come the day when this becomes reality (globally, including the U.S.), as will assisted suicide for any reason; euthanasia; forced abortions and sterilization; the right to marry whoever, whatever, or however many you wish; absolute government control of churches; the list could go on and on.
51 posted on 02/29/2012 2:26:37 PM PST by mtg
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To: 1010RD
Dealing with liberals is like watching a Niagara Falls of horrible ideas pouring forth. We need more than a TEA cup to end their madness.

I recommend Seven Bowls of Wrath.

Then tell 'em, "Put some ice on it."

52 posted on 02/29/2012 2:45:10 PM PST by HKMk23 (AVIS: RISQUE DE CHOC ELECTRIQUE — NE PAS OUVRIR.)
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To: Pinkbell

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

—C. S. Lewis,
God in the Dock


53 posted on 02/29/2012 3:10:09 PM PST by tjps
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To: Pinkbell

This article may have been posted before but it is worth repeating over and over on every news station who is willing to report it. This is the time for something like this to come out. It could help santorum as well.


54 posted on 02/29/2012 3:23:12 PM PST by whiteclockinthetrees (time deposits pearls)
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To: Pinkbell

“The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.”

Then why have conditions? How about if the baby gets in the way of the mom’s ‘social life’. Not a good direction to go.


55 posted on 02/29/2012 3:23:56 PM PST by BobL (I don't care about his past - Santorum will BRING THE FIGHT to Obama)
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To: Pinkbell

““fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society””

I’m good with that.


56 posted on 02/29/2012 3:32:29 PM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel

“I know they probably didn’t mean it this way, but they are right.”

What’s that?


57 posted on 02/29/2012 3:35:12 PM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: wolfcreek

The high and mighty super-intellectuals who so very much favor “choice” only do so as long as they are the ones who make it.


58 posted on 02/29/2012 3:41:58 PM PST by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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To: Pinkbell

This is the silver lining of an Obama administration. The depraved liberals think it is ok to come out from under their rocks and expose who they really are.


59 posted on 02/29/2012 3:58:47 PM PST by jimmygrace
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To: Pinkbell

“We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.”

Couldn’t the same thing be said about some adults? Just saying’.


60 posted on 02/29/2012 4:24:24 PM PST by oiler (Reagan Republicans unite. Hobbits in 2012)
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To: Pinkbell

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has taken this issue away from the American people. We need to elect a pro-life President this year.


61 posted on 02/29/2012 4:36:09 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: SZonian; SoldierDad; MrB; Pinkbell

Seems we missed a few of the bastards back in 1945 and let them propagate.

Too bad they didn’t self-abort and lead the way...

Where in the hell do they manufacture psychotics like these?


62 posted on 02/29/2012 4:50:44 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Pinkbell

This is the ‘thinking’ that fed the ovens at Auschwitz.


63 posted on 02/29/2012 6:18:45 PM PST by Islander7 (There is no septic system so vile, so filthy, the left won't drink from to further their agenda)
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To: Pinkbell

This is the logical conclusion of the abortion movement, is it not?


Yes.


64 posted on 02/29/2012 6:31:37 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: Pinkbell
experts say

Who died and appointed these people "experts"? Oh, right, like all leftists, they appointed themselves.

I'd like to get one of them alone for a little chat. Experts? My wife and I have been married for 35 years and have a 28 year old daughter that is one of the finest human beings I have ever known.

Experts? We are the experts. Real, loving parents are the experts. Not a bunch of sick, immoral eugenicists.

These people should be practicing some very late term abortions on themselves.

65 posted on 02/29/2012 8:21:30 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: chessplayer

It is the “logical” extension; I am afraid that it may well not be the conclusion.


66 posted on 02/29/2012 8:23:46 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Pinkbell; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; VinceASA; Monkey Face; RIghtwardHo; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


67 posted on 02/29/2012 8:23:52 PM PST by narses
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To: Pinkbell
Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say

Yeah, that's what pro-life people have been saying for years and getting ridiculed for it.
68 posted on 02/29/2012 8:28:26 PM PST by aruanan
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To: ChildOfThe60s

The people who are the most ardent advocates of abortion/euthanasia and population control consider themselves to be the true persons, those not part of the “surplus” population. Afterall, they must be here to lecture and decide the fate of the unwashed masses.


69 posted on 02/29/2012 8:31:00 PM PST by Pinkbell
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To: wagglebee

I missed that. Yeah, the media is slow, but at least it has hit the media at all. It’s amazing it didn’t just get swept under the rug completely.


70 posted on 02/29/2012 8:36:21 PM PST by Pinkbell
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To: Pinkbell

Pro-Life bump


71 posted on 02/29/2012 8:37:02 PM PST by Dajjal ("I'm not concerned about the very poor." -- severely conservative Mitt Rmoney)
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To: SumProVita

Yup, pure evil! It’s all logical to them though! They are truly sick twisted individuals!


72 posted on 02/29/2012 8:58:43 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: Pinkbell

God bless Newt Gingrich for telling like it is in the last debate:
Barack Obama supports infanticide. May he have the opportunity to say it loud and often!


73 posted on 02/29/2012 9:15:44 PM PST by bramps (Newt is the one)
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To: Pinkbell
killing
74 posted on 02/29/2012 9:32:32 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: 1010RD

Bttt


75 posted on 02/29/2012 9:56:39 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: NFHale
Hi Hale, how're things?

"Too bad they didn’t self-abort and lead the way..."

Isn't that the way it always is with these kind though?

"Where in the hell do they manufacture psychotics like these?"

I'm not sure psychotic is appropriate, more like soulless?

Take care brother!

76 posted on 02/29/2012 10:01:01 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Pinkbell

If you sit around discussing how crimes should be committed with the intent to commit them, or encourage others to do so, that is called conspiracy. That is a crime. So when does MI6, Interpol and the FBI arrest these idiots for conspiracy to commit large scale murder?

Do we not jail would be terrorists for this exact thing?

“Ethics” is just another in a long series of definitions that the left has co-opted and turned on it’s head.


77 posted on 03/01/2012 3:01:04 AM PST by Norm Lenhart (Normie: Wandering Druid, Cult of Palin)
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To: APatientMan; FreedomOfExpression

Abortion and infanticide are both murder.


78 posted on 03/01/2012 5:28:18 AM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: MrB

Exactly! “Ethics” are morals for people that don’t have any.


79 posted on 03/01/2012 5:53:44 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: SZonian

Hey brother!!!

“..how’re things?..”

Ahh..why bitch about it, ya know? Haha!

“...more like soulless?...”

Definitely soulless...but there’s psychosis involved too. Sociopath behavior as well. How else can anyone explain justifying the organized, systematic murder of children - or other human beings - on an industrial scale?

They don’t even blink an eye when speaking of it...

Since they have so little regard for human beings, it’s difficult not to see them as anything BUT psychotics...


80 posted on 03/01/2012 8:36:33 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Pinkbell
The words of Satan come out of these men's mouths.

This is evil pretending to be “science.”

There is no hope for Europe if this kind of murdering evil and horrific ugliness passes for morality and ethics in elite institutions.

Hitler might as well have won. His “ethics” seem to have been the ones finally adopted by the so-called liberal progressive victors.

81 posted on 03/01/2012 12:54:40 PM PST by mojito
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To: Pinkbell

These folks aren’t even original in their excuses, all they did was use the old German propaganda form the 1930’s T-4 program. The times they are a changing & not for the better.

The really sad part is that those folks who are not in favor of infanticide aren’t covered by the MSM in a honest fashion or are not allowed to speak period.


82 posted on 03/02/2012 12:05:20 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

We are on a slippery slope in the West . What was the Final Solution to the Jewish question started out as a way to save money & “improve the breeding stock” in Germany in the 1930’s .

It wasn’t rude men in black uniforms with “Death’s Head insignia on their caps that started it, but Doctors & Nurses,Medical Ethics experts & lawyers who had attended some of the finest Universities in the world .

People who were extremely intelligent & urbane who gave us murder factories that were legal under the law of the land .


83 posted on 03/02/2012 12:14:35 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

IIRC, Der Leader, Piece of $hit that he is, DID support allowing babies surviving Abortion to be left alone to die when he was in the State House in IL. I know I should be praying for these people, especially dueing Lent, but it is really hard to do. Jesus forgive me...


84 posted on 03/02/2012 2:39:24 PM PST by OriginalChristian (The end of America, as founded, began when the first Career Politician was elected...)
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To: Pinkbell; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

Last ping of the night (making up for a few days), another article about the sick fiend so-called "ethicists" making the logical conclusion that since babies in the womb can be killed, so can babies outside of the womb. Of course, they haven't taken their position to the logical ultimate conclusion yet, but just wait a short while.

85 posted on 03/02/2012 8:36:29 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: Pinkbell

When Roe v Wade was passed 39 years ago, the wise among us said this would happen sooner or later. Here we are.


86 posted on 03/03/2012 8:55:52 PM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Pinkbell
I don't think these "experts" have any value to society and I can't see that they have any human qualities beyond genetics.

Does that mean someone can shoot them down in the road and leave the corpse for the buzzards like they could a rabid dog?

Sadly, no it does not.

87 posted on 03/04/2012 7:54:11 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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