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Judge says ordering of abortion was justified
Boston Globe ^ | 02/21/2012 | By Peter Schworm

Posted on 02/21/2012 9:43:50 AM PST by Responsibility2nd

A family court judge who ruled that a pregnant woman with schizophrenia should undergo an abortion and be sterilized sharply defended her decision yesterday, while denouncing Boston University for withdrawing what she said was a job offer amid the controversy.

In a rare personal defense of the reasoning behind a court ruling, Christina Harms, who retired from the bench last month after 23 years, said she concluded that the woman, a 31-year-old who suffered from delusions, would choose to terminate her pregnancy if she were mentally competent, chiefly so that she could resume antipsychotic medication that would have harmed the fetus.

“I believed then, as I do now, that she would elect to abort the pregnancy to protect her own well-being,’’ she said. “She would want to be healthy.’’

Speaking in detail for the first time about the decision, which an appeals court reversed last month in unsparing terms, Harms described the case as “a tragic set of circumstances for which no outcome would have been easy or obviously correct.’’ The woman had described herself as “very Catholic’’ and expressed opposition to an abortion, while her parents were seeking consent for the procedure.

In a letter that she sent yesterday to other family court judges in Massachusetts, Harms outlined the reasons for her determination and criticized the appeals court ruling, which she called simplistic and unfair.

The appeals court ruled that the woman had clearly expressed her opposition to abortion as a Catholic, but Harms wrote that “the statements of a person suffering from schizophrenia surely cannot simply be taken at face value.’’

Harms said she has requested a meeting with the chief judge of the appeals court to register her objection to the “insulting tone’’ of the decision.

She also stated that Boston University’s law school rescinded a job offer shortly after her decision came to light, an abrupt move she said could discourage judges from making unpopular decisions.

“It strikes at the heart of what judicial independence is about,’’ she said. “We need to protect judges from the popularity of the moment.’’

A BU spokesman said yesterday that the university never officially offered the job but acknowledged that it eliminated her from consideration for the job - a new position that would guide students toward judicial clerkships - after her ruling came to light and stirred public outcry.

more....


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; babykillers; catholic; eugenics; forcedabortion; judicialtyranny; lifehate; lifeunworthyoflife; marymoe; moloch; moralabsolutes; prolife; vikingkitties; zot
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To: bvw

Uggghhh. You had to come out of lurk mode to join the cult of death? I can understand why you normally prefer to keep your yap shut, as your homepage suggests.


51 posted on 02/21/2012 10:59:43 AM PST by JerseyDvl (Sometimes the road less traveled.... is less traveled for a reason.)
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To: Flycatcher

As one who has stood before the former Judge Harms (let me tell you that her name is appropriate), I can assure you your fears are not invalid. There is a common theme among Massachusetts Probate Court judges....they are anti-male, anti-family and anti-child.


52 posted on 02/21/2012 11:01:18 AM PST by thereverendjim04 (In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. (George Orwell))
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To: Responsibility2nd

A irresponsible post does not make for a responsible discussion.


53 posted on 02/21/2012 11:05:46 AM PST by bvw
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To: trisham

This one of yours has been the best response, why did you trouble a good post with a second one to call a bully’s posse?


54 posted on 02/21/2012 11:07:37 AM PST by bvw
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To: Lurking Libertarian

My two brothers, my sister and myself would not be alive if babies were killed because their mother was mentally ill. We are all in our sixties and seventies and yet we have had good lives, nice kids, and no sign of schizophrenia. Our mother lived with my sister and later myself and died at the age of 76. Sometimes things were strange but she wasn’t a bad mother in many ways. We were the people she trusted and no one else.

The judge has rendered a decision that is cruel and ignorant. We have become a society that calls right wrong and wrong right. God help us.


55 posted on 02/21/2012 11:08:19 AM PST by Cowgirl
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To: jboot
There have always been some FReepers who were pro-abortion, but they typically know to keep quiet about it.
56 posted on 02/21/2012 11:09:08 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: bvw

A irresponsible post does not make for a responsible discussion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHAT does that mean? An “irresponsible post”? I assume you mean your post #14.

Come on and play. We want to have a “responsible discussion”. Yes we do. Please elaborate on your post 14.

kaythankxbye


57 posted on 02/21/2012 11:12:42 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This mean Liberals and/or Libertarians (Same Thing) NO LIBS.))
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To: bvw

And THAT is your only reply? Just like Judge Harms of you to duck responsibility for endorsing the murder of the innocent and to whine about being bullied.


58 posted on 02/21/2012 11:15:11 AM PST by JerseyDvl (Sometimes the road less traveled.... is less traveled for a reason.)
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To: bvw
This one of yours has been the best response, why did you trouble a good post with a second one to call a bully’s posse?

A bully's posse?!

Who is the bully here?

Those who defend innocent life, or those who defend a totalitarian judge who decrees that an innocent woman must put to death her innocent unborn child?

So who is the real bully, bvw?

59 posted on 02/21/2012 11:20:49 AM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: bvw; Berlin_Freeper; Hotlanta Mike; Silentgypsy; repubmom; HANG THE EXPENSE; Nepeta; Bikkuri; ...


bvw: "In the particular circumstances of the case I do agree with the Judge." ???

forced abortions on Catholics?
murder a fetus to prevent it from being harmed?
what law gave this judge the right to order an abortion?


judicial evaluation survey
60 posted on 02/21/2012 11:23:16 AM PST by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: bvw

Was your post intended to be only for my eyes?


61 posted on 02/21/2012 11:25:20 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I am pleased she resigned as a judge, but Massachusetts rarely knows true justice.

Atheistic socialism is the norm there and I am fully and wholly surprised her decision wasn't upheld.

I'm sure she was as surprised as I am that the upper court didn't go along with her humanist act of human sacrifice to Satan.

62 posted on 02/21/2012 11:26:20 AM PST by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

We have a freeper who is so conservative...he supports government forced sterilization

63 posted on 02/21/2012 11:26:37 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: wagglebee

I suppose you are right. But if I weren’t a social conservative I wouldn’t post here. It’s just odd, especially because so many of them voluntarily opus out and draw the lightning without any provocation from anyone. It’s like they want the zot. Do they give out zottee compensation over at DU or something?


64 posted on 02/21/2012 11:30:33 AM PST by jboot
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To: bvw
A government that tells you you must pay for your employees birth control is a government that can tell you you must use birth control.

Wal Mart sells bc pills for $4/month, $10 for three months, but apparently we need to get the government involved in our bedrooms.

Don't think China can happen here? How about if the same government decided who could AND COULD NOT have access to birth control. I suppose that would scare you.

65 posted on 02/21/2012 11:32:00 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: Brown Deer

Thanx for the pingie. I find this hard to believe, but then again....I have an hour long commute from Cambridge MA to my home in NH. I will see how the local talk show hosts handle this one....


66 posted on 02/21/2012 11:32:55 AM PST by GregNH (I will continue to do whatever it takes, my grandchildren are depending on me....)
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To: bvw
A government that tells you you must pay for your employees birth control is a government that can tell you you must use birth control.

Wal Mart sells bc pills for $4/month, $10 for three months, but apparently we need to get the government involved in our bedrooms.

Don't think China can happen here? How about if the same government decided who could AND COULD NOT have access to birth control. I suppose that would scare you.

67 posted on 02/21/2012 11:33:02 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: Responsibility2nd

The appellate court was scathing in it’s reversal. I wish I didn’t close the tab and could’ve posted the link. Unbelievable what these people think.


68 posted on 02/21/2012 11:35:59 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: Responsibility2nd

The appellate court was scathing in it’s reversal. I wish I didn’t close the tab and could’ve posted the link. Unbelievable what these people think.


69 posted on 02/21/2012 11:36:24 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: trisham; bvw

Trisham, could you add me to the “Bully Posse” ping list? I rarely have time to participate these days, but I do hate to miss a good zot.


70 posted on 02/21/2012 11:40:41 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: jboot
There are quite a few libertarians on here who think they belong because they agree with conservatives on fiscal matters. The reality is that they are very liberal on everything else.
71 posted on 02/21/2012 11:42:33 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: massgopguy
Was Mental Incompetence determined on her being a Catholic?

Catholic and schizophrenic.

Just like Joan of Arc...

72 posted on 02/21/2012 11:43:07 AM PST by null and void (Day 1127 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: metmom; bvw

“Bully Posse” ping.

IBTZ


73 posted on 02/21/2012 11:44:33 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Responsibility2nd

JUST WOW! Now we are to accept the forcible murder of our offspring. We are now officially a banana republic.


74 posted on 02/21/2012 11:44:52 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: jjm2111

Do you know whether or not the child was actually aborted? The story at the top does not directly treat the case in question.


75 posted on 02/21/2012 11:45:26 AM PST by jboot
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To: jboot

I don’t believe the child was killed. The article I read didn’t say so explicitly (Boston Herald), but I’m sick as a dog today so I may have missed it.


76 posted on 02/21/2012 11:49:28 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: bvw; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; EternalVigilance; ...
why did you trouble a good post with a second one to call a bully’s posse?

Let me see if I've got this straight:

1. A judge forcing a woman to have an abortion against her will is okay with you.

2. A judge ordering the sterilization of a woman against her will is okay with you.

3. People on the internet that you perceive as "bullies" (I assume this group includes those who vocally oppose things like forced abortion and sterilization) are a problem.

Did I make any mistakes?

77 posted on 02/21/2012 11:52:08 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I was once a libertarian, a long time ago. I was pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-porn and pro-drug. Then I grew up, got a job, got married and moved out of mom’s basement. For me, at least, that changed everything.


78 posted on 02/21/2012 11:53:13 AM PST by jboot
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To: BykrBayb
Hi, BB! You'll be the first person on my "Bully Posse" ping list. :)

Whatever it takes to see you more often. :)

79 posted on 02/21/2012 11:54:01 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: bvw

I’m bipolar. I raised 2 wonderful sons. One is a great father of 2 children & the other is a US Marine. I’m guessing according to you they should have been murdered in my womb.

cindie


80 posted on 02/21/2012 11:59:02 AM PST by gardencatz (I'm lucky enough to live, walk & breathe among heroes! I am the mother of a US Marine!)
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To: trisham

LOL

Thanks!


81 posted on 02/21/2012 11:59:37 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Brown Deer
The continuing dehumanization of all life in general.
Nobody's life has any value and the continuance of life is subjective, not objective.
82 posted on 02/21/2012 12:00:24 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: wagglebee
Looks like the kitties have emptied the litter box.

IBTZ and IATZ...I rule today!!

83 posted on 02/21/2012 12:03:20 PM PST by jboot
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To: All

IATZ!


84 posted on 02/21/2012 12:04:22 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: jboot

Oh darn! I missed this one.

My job interferes with my fun! LOL!


85 posted on 02/21/2012 12:10:09 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

——The appeals court ruled that the woman had clearly expressed her opposition to abortion as a Catholic, but Harms wrote that “the statements of a person suffering from schizophrenia surely cannot simply be taken at face value.’’-——

Reminds me of old Soviet Union, where “religious” and “psychotic” were synonymous.


86 posted on 02/21/2012 12:12:10 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: jboot
Good!
87 posted on 02/21/2012 12:15:36 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: I cannot think of a name

Any doctor who performs abortions already has shown they don’t take the Hippocratic oath seriously, so why would this be surprising?

BTW, I don’t think the procedure was actually performed in this case, since the daughter won her appeal.


88 posted on 02/21/2012 12:22:12 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Responsibility2nd

The United States of China


89 posted on 02/21/2012 12:22:32 PM PST by Maryhere ("HE comes to rule the earth")
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To: darkwing104; Old Sarge; TheOldLady

He may have been a class of ‘98. But zot don’t care.


90 posted on 02/21/2012 12:27:02 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This mean Liberals and/or Libertarians (Same Thing) NO LIBS.))
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To: Responsibility2nd; bvw; DJ MacWoW; wagglebee; little jeremiah; trisham
Or go ahead and defend abortion. You’ve been a FReeper a long time, but (last time I looked) pro-aborts get zotted.

Oooops....

IATZ.....

Just for the record that position surprised me. It was not one I expected from that FReeper.

91 posted on 02/21/2012 12:36:00 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: trisham; BykrBayb
Hi, BB! You'll be the first person on my "Bully Posse" ping list. :)

Me too. Me too.

92 posted on 02/21/2012 12:40:37 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Just for the record that position surprised me. It was not one I expected from that FReeper.
 
_________________________________________________________
 
 
I've been trying to think of times I've Freeped with the dearly departed bmv. If I remember anything, I tend to remember disagreeing with bmv as he/she took a libertarian POV.
 
See tagline. I hate libertarians. 
 
Anywho. We tried to give bmv a way to walk back that comment. Didn't happen
 

93 posted on 02/21/2012 12:47:06 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This mean Liberals and/or Libertarians (Same Thing) NO LIBS.))
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To: metmom; BykrBayb

Well, that’s three of us now! :)


94 posted on 02/21/2012 12:53:16 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

If he’s the one I’m thinking of, he was a stalwart in the crevo debates. But I don’t recall any particular libertarian leanings out of that.


95 posted on 02/21/2012 1:22:53 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: bvw

The banned played on.


96 posted on 02/21/2012 1:30:38 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: wagglebee
PRO-LIFE BULLAY!
97 posted on 02/21/2012 1:33:00 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: Responsibility2nd

I am not opposed to libertarianism in principle, in the abstract. (The devil is in the details.) What I am opposed to is, that if someone has gone nuts, presuming to stick Caesar jackboots-and-all into that someone’s mind. That is a very anti-libertarian move if anything. Maybe they had to lighten her beneficial medication a bit for the sake of the unborn baby, but it didn’t sound like she was in danger of a suicide, and when the pregnancy is complete they can put her back on her medications and hopefully she will regain some sanity. I could see maybe also putting her on a birth control pill, but a permanent sterilization? No way.


98 posted on 02/21/2012 1:39:59 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: Responsibility2nd

Surprised that bvw holds (held?) such a incredibly Nazi-like view.


99 posted on 02/21/2012 1:52:49 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
In all 50 states, there are laws providing for judicial supervision of people who are not legally competent (e.g., severely retarded, mentally ill, in a coma, etc.). The court can either appoint a guardian for the person, or the court itself can make major decisions for the person (authorizing surgery, authorizing the filing or settlement of a lawsuit, making investments, etc.)

The concept itself is neither new (it goes back to English law) nor controversial in theory. It becomes controversial in a few cases (this one and Terry Schiavo come to mind), but judges in every state every day are making medical and other decisions for incompetent people.

Do you consider that forcing a mentally ill person to abort her child falls under such laws that provide for "juditical supervision"?

100 posted on 02/21/2012 1:58:46 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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