Fidelity: Should It Matter? (Should marital fidelity matter in a political candidate?)

American Thinker ^ | 01/24/2012 | Vaughan Starr

[SeekAndFind]

Should marital fidelity matter in a political candidate? And yes, I am talking about Newt Gingrich. There are many who would scoff at the notion.

Certainly, there were a large number present at the Republican primary debate who delighted in booing down John King when he questioned Gingrich on his ex-wife's allegations. A delight that was only surpassed when their favored excoriated the value of the question and the questioner, with a perfect fury that smacked more cold calculation than any true genuine emotion. For as Mr. Gingrich was undoubtedly already well aware, his greatest positive exposure throughout the campaign to date has come when he has rounded on the hopelessly biased left-dominated mainstream media, and let loose with both barrels. And didn't Mr. King's question give Mr. Gingrich the perfect opportunity to do just that?! Enabling Mr. Gingrich to garner to kind of publicity that no amount of money can buy. Publicity which carried him to victory in the election that followed.

And what an election it was! One in which people lined up to cast their ballot. Voting not so much against the "injustice" which had been perpetrated upon Newt Gingrich. But more against the morally and intellectually bankrupt fawning coverage that has been employed by the bulk of the media to carry Obama administration these past years. Coverage for which Mr. Gingrich courtesy of John King, had now perfectly positioned him as the poster child against. Yes, a vote for Newt was indeed a vote against the left media. And my, how they voted!

At least, we can but hope that that was what motivated them. Otherwise, a man who has employed some of the most despicably divisive leftist tactics ever used by a conservative candidate has a significant swell of support!

[Jonty30]

It should matter.

Many things should matter.

But sometimes they have to matter less then other things.

[C210N]

All things being equal, it should DEFINITELY matter!!

That said, all things are NOT equal. The society and the republic are at stake.

[Old Sarge]

Should marital fidelity matter in a political candidate?Then let's talk about Moochelle Antoinette Obama banging a Secret Service agent...

[cuban leaf]

Of course it matters, but some things matter more and some matter less. And if I were worried that previous philandering would significantly affect the performance of his duties, it would be a much more important issue than the faults I find with Romney.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

My father in law puts it best;

You are a passenger on an airliner that has lost an engine. You are going down.
Do you care that the pilot kicked his dog last night?
Do you care that the pilot is married yet has a woman in every port?

Or do you want the best damned jet pilot sitting at the controls of your plane?

[Uncle Ike]

” But sometimes they have to matter less then other things.”

If there’s a candidate who, as President, has the vision and strength of will to lead us through the coming economic and geopolitical turmoil, and bring us out the other side still a viable nation - I don’t care if he maintains a tax-supported harem in the White House....

Unfortunately, such a candidate doesn’t seem to be running...

[dforest]

It should matter, but only if the same standard and scrutiny is applied by the media to both sides.

What the media does is cover and hide those things with Dem candidates, and make it a big deal in GOP candidates.

It used to matter if a candidate took drugs. Anymore the bar has lowered and it is a resume enhancer, especially if the person is a democrat.

[SumProVita]

Should our own sinfulness matter to all of us?

Should repentance and forgiveness matter?

Should the fact that Gingrich’s daughters have seen a change in him matter?

[duckman]

Only matters if you are a Repub. If you are a rat, it’s an ‘Eye catching’ line in their resume.

[Cincinnatus]

As a Catholic, the fact that Newt has been received in the church, sought and received divine forgiveness through the sacrament of Reconciliation and has his current marriage recognized as valid by the Church is sufficient for me to give him a pass on the issue. In my mind that is a much more authoritative disposition than thousands of people’s opinions who do not know the parties or any of their private circumstances.

[Joe 6-pack]

"My father in law puts it best; You are a passenger on an airliner..."

How about this:

You are a passenger on an Italian Cruise ship. Do you want a captain with a record of personal appetites that distract him from steering the ship?

[MHGinTN]

The better and more cogent question might be to ask if a mans broken and contrite heart can be dealt with by The Grace of God in Christ. But then asking such a question would not serve your obvious agenda and the discussion would go quickly over your head.

[elpadre]

If character counts, and I think it does, then yes. And if someone is a serial womanizer then I think it counts even more. Distorting facts is another issue that politicians have, as well as outright lies. Is anyone keeping score?

[Just mythoughts]

The good book says you break one you break them all. And bearing false witness is as much a sin as adultery .... fornication. After the Clintons maintained their popularity at 66% in spite of lying, cheating, adultery, and only God knows what else I have been desensitized to how hypocrites calculate sin based upon who it is that sins.

Matthew 23, whole chapter pretty much describes the majority of our modern day politics and bleeds over in the houses of religion.

[nicmarlo]

Obama has been married once. I’ve heard of rumors of his own homosexuality.

King David of the Jews committed adultery, murder, covetousness, and rape. He arranged to have the husband of the woman he desired killed. But, still, God called him the Apple of His eye. Why? David repented for his sins and, in his own so human and fallible heart, LOVED and wanted to please GOD.

Fidelity matters, but it is not the only thing you are to look at: the heart and soul matters S0 much, much more.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: Or do you want the best damned jet pilot sitting at the controls of your plane?

I would care if he were like the Ship Captain of the Carnival Cruise that sank off the coast of Italy.

In other words, i would care if the jet pilot has the character to CARE for his passengers instead of holding his own parachute.

[Vendome]

What should matter is what matters to Americans on issues discussed at the dinner table and in the living room.

It’s the effing economy...stoopid.

It’s putting Americans to work ...stoopid.

It’s the over taxation and intrusion by the government .... stoopid.

It’s a Government of the best Republic ideals now turning to ideals that seem more like fascism ....stoopid.

It’s about removing uncertainty and confusion in the positions our government holds. ... stoopid.

Americans want to be in charge and empowered to make decions without a spazi type of government or one that has Marxist tendencies. Stoopid.

[elpadre]

“..his current marriage recognized as valid by the Church ..”

I am not a Roman Catholic, however I know many who have left the RC church. Divorce and adultery are biggies for them and have always been curious how the Gingrich's managed to get their marriage blessed. Have they ever said?

just curious

[elpadre]

“..his current marriage recognized as valid by the Church ..”

I am not a Roman Catholic, however I know many who have left the RC church. Divorce and adultery are biggies for them and have always been curious how the Gingrich's managed to get their marriage blessed. Have they ever said?

just curious

[US Navy Vet]

I don’t know there Mr “SeekAndFind” maybe you need to ask you OWN “States’” “Governer”!

[Retired Greyhound]

Infidelity in one’s past should be noted, and considered.

Infidelity WHILE ONE IS IN OFFICE, should be frowned upon.

[Da Coyote]

Funny...

It didn’t matter for FDR.
It didn’t matter for JFK.
It didn’t matter for dead Ted.
It didn’t matter for Bubba.

but....

Now, it matters?

Sorry, but the MSM’s record on this is clear.
And as has been said many times above, I want a competent leader first.

(Oh, one who has an actual birth certificate would also be nice.)

[teenyelliott]

RIGHT ON, SAM!!

Hope you are well. :)

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Ooooo....that’s a good one.

[bgill]

Of course, it should matter. However, at this point I just want someone who loves America and will enforce the US Constitution.

[crosshairs]

Divorce and adultery are biggies for them and have always been curious how the Gingrich's managed to get their marriage blessed. Have they ever said?

Indulgences. Money will smooth things over.

[TexasRepublic]

It comes down to this: we will have to choose between a flawed Republican and a flawed Marxist. Take your pick.

[Age of Reason]

Everything matters in a leader.

[muir_redwoods]

Everything matters but if a loved ones heart stops you don’t question the doctors commitment to marital fidelity. I try to tell my kids, my wife and anyone else who will listen, we’re not picking a guy to date my daughter of marry my sister. We’re picking a guy to go toe-to-toe with the worst people on earth. Often. We’re picking a guy who can understand how an economy works and how not to (further) screw it up. We’re picking a guy who can draft a realistic budget.

[warchild9]

Extending that logic implies that Bill Clinton’s Yale law degree trumps the fact that he’s a slimball.

Mr. Roberts, that wacky feeling isn’t anger, it’s called cognitive dissonance.

[warchild9]

slimball = slimeball

same same

/lousy laptop

[darrellmaurina]

I think we need to be careful what we say on this topic because the site owner has made it quite clear that he endorses Newt Gingrich. I've been cautioned on this already and I will respect the admonition I've received — his site, his rules.

In an ideal world, I'd like to see a discussion on Free Republic about how evangelical social conservatives and secular conservatives can unite behind Newt Gingrich. Obviously, I don't make those decisions and it's probably not going to happen. But since it won't, here's a very detailed article on Free Republic by Rev. Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, who has endorsed Newt Gingrich and comments on his spiritual condition:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2822096/posts

I find it helpful.

If Romney is going to be defeated, we evangelicals are probably going to have to make our peace with Newt Gingrich since it looks like he's the only person left who's able to do that.

Read the article, especially the sections near the end where the author says Gingrich has told him some important and very politically incorrect things about joining the Roman Catholic Church because it provides him structure in his faith and has a long history of successfully fighting Islam.

I am anything but a supporter of the Roman Catholic Church, but I like what Gingrich says about fighting Islam and modern liberalism.

I like it a lot.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that while Gingrich would be barred from membership and probably even from receiving communion in my church, since the same is true for Santorum as a Roman Catholic, and since Gingrich has proved his ability to win Southern votes in a strongly conservative Bible Belt state like South Carolina, unless Santorum catches fire soon, we evangelicals are stuck with Gingrich as our only choice left and need to make the best of it.

[Cincinnatus]

It is by no means an easy process to straighten out three marriages. The Church has very advanced procedures to examine each and every aspect of the prior marriages. It particularly becomes a super-serious issue if the prior marriage was made in a Christian union, whether Catholic or not. It gets a bit easier if they were civil marriages. I have no idea what the Gingrich circumstances were, nor am I a canon lawyer. But it certainly appears that a duly constituted Church court has ruled on the issues. And, as I said, that’s good enough for me.

[donna]

“Because power corrupts, society’s demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases.”
- John Adams -

[Jonty30]

And I agree with you.

But the candidate you are looking for, perfected and electable, does not exist.

Santorum, at least it appears, comes across as very ethical, but he’s not electable.

It’s been because of the want to have a perfect candidate that America is going down the tubes, because good candidates are rejected because they aren’t perfect and liberals get the power.

[cuban leaf]

I agree with your Adams quote, but the problem is that it is a relative thing. We are not comparing Gingrich to Ronald Reagan. We’re comparing him to Mitt and Obama.

He still comes out on top, not least because there are multiple areas in which a man can fail in moral authority besides the bedroom.

[StonyMan451]

I am not a Roman Catholic, however I know many who have left the RC church. Divorce and adultery are biggies for them and have always been curious how the Gingrich's managed to get their marriage blessed. Have they ever said?

It's kind of long, but interesting, I think, so I'll give it a shot. With regard to marriage, the Catholic Church teaches the following:

1. For a Christian, marriage is a sacrament. It cannot be undone except by death. While it is possible to get a legal divorce, the Church still views the couple as sacramentally married until one of the spouses dies.
2. Civil marriage has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not a sacramental marriage has been validly entered.
3. The marriages of non-Catholic Christians are presumed to be valid sacramental marriages.
4. You can be sacramentally married to only one person at a time. And since a sacramental marriage lasts until death, that means you can only enter a second sacramental marriage after the death of your spouse.
5. There are certain conditions that are required for a marriage to be considered sacramentally valid. Those conditions include (but are not limited to) the following: 1) the firm intention to be sexually faithful to your spouse as long as you both live; 2) the willingness (but not necessarily the positive intention) to have children, should God send them to you; and 3) the mature understanding that marriage is a lifelong commitment. If any of these conditions is missing (and there are others, but these are the relevant ones for this discussion), then the marriage is not valid.
6. A marriage is presumed to be valid unless it is convincingly demonstrated otherwise in a Church court. An example of a case where it could be demonstrated to be invalid would be if one spouse engaged in sexual intercourse with another party within a very short time after the marriage ceremony. There can be other very convincing evidence that the conditions for a valid marriage were not met.
7. A Catholic can appeal to the Church for a declaration of nullity, which is an official declaration that the marriage they had presumed to be valid was, in fact, not valid at all, and had never been valid. This is commonly called an annulment. If the Church is convinced by the evidence submitted that one or more of the essential elements of a valid sacramental marriage was missing AT THE TIME OF THE WEDDING CEREMONY, then the annulment can be granted and both parties are free to enter a valid sacramental marriage with someone else.
8. If you commit adultery, that does not end a sacramental marriage just as it does not end a civil marriage. If, at the time of the ceremony, both parties intended to be sexually faithful for life, then a later choice to commit adultery does not invalidate the marriage.
9. If, while validly married in the eyes of the Church, you enter a civil marriage with someone else, the Church does not recognize the civil marriage as valid. You are still married to your first spouse until one of you dies.
10. If, while living in a second civil marriage while still sacramentally married to someone else, and your sacramental spouse dies, your new civil marriage does not automatically become a valid sacramental marriage. You are still living in sin until you enter a new sacramental marriage.

Applying these considerations to the Gingrich case, we see that his second civil marriage was never a valid sacramental marriage. There are many reasons this is true, including both the fact that he was still sacramentally married to his first wife, Jackie. His adulterous relationship Marianne did not invalidate that marriage. When Jackie died, he was considered not to be sacramentally married anymore, since his new civil marriage to Marianne has no sacramental effect. When he started his affair with Callista, he was still legally married to Marianne (but not sacramentally). He later civilly divorced Marianne and entered his third civil marriage to Callista.

When Newt converted to Catholicism, the whole issue of his marital relationships had to be cleared up in the eyes of the Church. Since Jackie had died, there was no question that he was not married to her anymore. However, he had entered a civil marriage with Marianne. While the existence of a civil marriage has no sacramental effect, there is, nevertheless, an obligation to clarify one's marital status when entering the Church. There would have had to be an official declaration that his purported marriage to Marianne was not sacramental, and that therefore, he was free to enter into a sacramental marriage with Callista. Newt would not have been received into the Catholic Church if he was not willing to either stop living with Callista, or to enter a sacramental marriage with her. So when he converted, he also sacramentally married Callista.

Thus, it's not that his civil marriage was blessed. Rather, it is that he entered a sacramental marriage with her either before or immediately after he was received into the Church.

I need to make clear that the Church is not "looking the other way" with regard to Newt's repeated infidelities. And this is not some sort of loophole. On the contrary, the Church simply presumes the sincerity of all those who repent of their sins and wish to convert. And since sexual activity outside a sacramental marriage is prohibited by Christ, a sincere person in Newt's position who wants to enter the Church would have to sacramentally marry the person with whom they are living, or to separate from them. Newt and Callista chose to marry.

Another point is that the Church condemns Callista's behavior before their sacramental marriage, too. But presumably they both have had a conversion of heart. Let's hope so, anyway.

[elkfersupper]

Probably not.

Newt is a serial monogamist, as many of us are or were.

I finally figured out after 6 years of marriage to my first wife and 25.5 years to my second, that it is simply not worth it.

I have simple reasons for that; the simplest is that now when I put something someplace, it is where I put it when I go to retrieve it.

No denigration meant for the lady FReepers, just sayin'.

[kalee]

One major problem with your scenario, Jackie is NOT dead.

[Jim Robinson]

I’m going to try to make my reasoning clear here.

Sarah Palin was my first choice for president, but the left, the GOP-E and many right here on FR wouldn’t have it. They trashed her and her family relentlessly with some of the unholiest filth and lies imaginable. Even so, I did little about it. I felt it was best to let the debate run its course and the best hard ass conservative would rise to the top. Well, they drove her completely out and she didn’t run. Didn’t want to subject her family to such suffering.

Then one by one, they did the same thing to Gingrich, Perry, Bachmann, Cain and Santorum driving their support numbers down and Perry, Cain and Bachmann out of the race. As each one took their turns as our leading non-Romney conservative they were relentlessly attacked, trashed and driven out.

Looked like we were repeating 2008 and were going to be stuck with a loser RINO again. We’re running out of conservative candidates and I’ll be damned if I’m going to allow Free Republic to be used to drive out our last remaining best conservative shot of defeating both Romney and Obama!!

Then a funny thing happened. Newt Gingrich, whom they’d left for dead, arose from the grave and began smiting the heathen. He’s back as a hard as nails, no nonsense, bad ass, battle scarred, conservative veteran of two conservative revolutions, the Reagan Revolution of the 80s and then his own Republican Revolution of the 90s. And they were both hugely successful for us.

I’ve looked at Newt’s plan. It’s Reagan’s plan on steroids. Radically reduce government, regulations taxes and spending, restore constitutionally limited government, restore states rights, restore individual rights, restore economic freedom, restore American excellence, whack and dethrone the liberal activist judiciary and get the government the hell off our backs, out of our lives and out of our religion.

Securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity!!

Now what is there not to like?

We are rebels trying to take back our freedom or aren’t we?

Rebellion is ON!!

Join or die!!

Don’t tread on me!!

[Wuli]

There are many things that should matter and there will be no candidate that will live up to 100% of our expectations 100% of the time, which will always leave our decision about a candidate as a result of our reflections on a spectrum of values and issues, hoping to pick one who, in sum, seems better, in summary, than the rest.

There are no saints, except maybe in heaven, but certainly not in politics.

[Jim Robinson]

Politics ain’t beanbag!

[elkfersupper]

Politics ain’t beanbag!

I realize that, Senor.

I'm running for public office right now.

Wish me good luck and Godspeed if you so choose.

[dead]

It's definitely a big negative against Newt in my book.

But I'll just look at the $500 million dollars in tax money that BO stole to pay off his Solyndra campaign contributors and those two big negatives cancel each other out.

I can do this sort of moral accounting for each of Newt's foibles or sins, and still not get past breakfast, day one of the Obama Administration.

Newt's treats his wives like crap, but so does my car mechanic. I just need to know he can fix the car.

[Jim Robinson]

Prayers up!

[Anti-Hillary]

Say what??? I had not heard that. Will have to look it up.

[Deb]

For me there's quite a difference between someone like Bill Clinton who is a serial chaser and journeyman liar and someone like Newt who fell out of love with someone and fell in love with someone else...and married her...and didn't look the American people in the eye and lie for two solid years, perjure himself in front of a federal judge and send his entire party out to lie for him.

There's a difference between someone with a complete lack of character and someone with a character flaw that he prayed God would correct.

[elkfersupper]

Thank you.

You will soon have freepmail.

Thank you for your fair wishes.

[Deb]

Politics would be beanbag if one team controlled the rules, the score, the throwing distance, the number of bags and the size of the beans. Then politics in 2012 would be exactly like beanbag.

And I think our bag would still win!