Mormons 'face more bigotry than black Americans'...

UK Daily Mail ^ | January 13, 2012 | Staff

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

I’m still trying to understand why they can’t consume anything with caffeine.

Weird.

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

You know,I’d actually like to see someone attempt to nail Jell-O to a tree.

I would be a hoot.

=)

[csense]

You know,I actually like to see someone attempt to nail Jell-O to a tree.

The trick is to take the bet absent the stipulation that the tree be upright.

Assumptions can be areal kick in the ass sometimes...

[21twelve]

Joesph Smith wrote that one is not to have hot drinks. Somewhere down the line that became coffee and tea. Well, except herbal tea is okay I think.

I remember a good friend and neighbor was trying to convert another good friend and neigbor to Mormonism. She listened politily a few times, but then kindly said no. She told us “I’m not gonna join some religion that sends me to hell for a cup of coffee.” LOL! (Although I doubt that is the case.)

In visiting and staying at our Mormon friend’s mother out of state I mentioned that I was going out to get a cup of coffee and made some joke about them letting me back in. The mom said if she had known I liked coffee she would have had some fresh in the house. But she pulled out her coffee maker and rinsed the dust out and told me to get some coffee when I was out.

I was surprised, and said something about their “rules”. she laughed and said “Rules are meant to be broken. I figure I’m being more godly in being a good host and neighbor if I can treat someone to a cup of coffee than following some rule about not drinking it.” She said her Bishop (or some high-ranking guy) called her on it once when he found out she served coffee, and she laid into him. She isn’t the type to take anyone telling her what she can or can’t do. Wonderful gal!

On that same visit we went to the small Lutheran church in the Mormon college town. Our family with little kids in tow was their highlight. It was sad though. The preacher saw our three kids and said something like “Well, its been years since I did a children’s story - but would they mind coming up front?” (A couple dozen old folks were sitting in the pews - sad).

Talking with the preacher later, I commented on the beautiful front doors. He sighed and said that after buying them it took two years to get them installed. They were some fancy door and required certain knowledge or something. The door company gave him a list of installers in the area.

He called the first one, and he said he could be out next week. But after the preacher gave him the address, and mentioned it was a Lutheran church, the guy found out he had a big job starting that week.

Same with everyone they called. So, if you are in a Mormon area, and aren’t a Mormon - YOU are the one that faces the bigotry. Getting and keeping a job, haggling prices on a car, etc.

[Elsie]

I’m still trying to understand why they can’t consume anything with caffeine.

Why, it's right HERE; in the SCRIPTURE; that we can't!!!

--MormonDude(I know it's here... somewhere...)

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

Do you know WHY most MORMONs are NOT WORTHY enough to even enter their own TEMPLES???

Just check out verses 12&13 above.

How would YOU like to be a VEGAN in WARM weather???

It ain't #10 (though it IS a biggie); it is #11!!!

 

Temple Recommend Questions

---

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

Temple Recommend Questions

---

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[Elsie]

I would be a hoot.

WHOOOoooo said that?

[Elsie]

Somewhere down the line that became coffee and tea.

Thereby PROVING that MORMONs do NOT know what is in their own SCRIPTURE.

---

Somewhere down the line they threw their GOD under the bus for statehood; too.

Thereby PROVING that they do NOT care what their Prophet had WARNED them about...

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

After seeing and experiencing the above; it’s no WONDER than more ‘mormons’ haven’t left the ‘church’!

I guess it kinda explains this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

[Elsie]

(Intro page of MY 1981 BoM)

The MOST correct book??

 

 

Just some of the 3000+ changes...

Mosiah 21:28
Original 1830 - "...king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..."
1964 change- "...king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..."

3 Nephi 22:4
1830 -"...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more."
1981- "...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more."

I Nephi 12:18
1830 - ...yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God... (historical note- Jesus Christ was not revealed to the Nephites until II Nephi 10:3.)
1981 - yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Messiah which is the Lamb of God...

[Elsie]

(Intro page of MY 1981 BoM)

The MOST correct book??

 

 

Notice the red * in the right margin?

 

And AMONG in the left??

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon492.htm

[Elsie]

The MOST correct book??

 

 

Didja see the of 1611 and the almost unreadable Hat, too?

Well; Face in got cropped out of the picture, but what follows here, shows what the gift and power of God were...

---

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

---

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

---

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

---

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

---

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

---

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

---

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

---

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

---

---

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

LOL. That’s a cute little owl.

[21twelve]

Interesting reading. My wife said something to the effect of how Satan can trick people and how he tricked Joseph Smith. I told her that Satan may have been behind Smith's heart - but it was just Smith making it up. Just like Mohamed made up Islam.

And I doubt that this was even how the Book of Mormon was written. (With Smith looking into the hat). Unless he had it written out ahead of time and hidden. I doubt that Smith could have just told the story - what with all of the passages from Bible, timelines, etc. Of course our Mormon friends will say that was the miracle. But I think the small group of interpreters and scribes must have been in on it together. And in the rare cases that folks came over they put on a show with the hat.

Just like his earlier treasure-finding hunts.

[21twelve]

Regarding your list of things to be able to go to temple.

#7: Associating with groups or individuals at odds with the church. I guess in my earlier story my friend’s mom was out because she made me coffee. And the carpenters were in for refusing to install doors on the Lutheran church.

And the last point “Are you worthy to enter the Lord’s house...”

That is the crux of the issue. I know that myself, on my own, would never be worthy to come before the Lord. Whether in church, in prayer, or at the pearly gates. I know that I would be a very sad and depressed person if I thought that I had to be worthy by my good deeds and pure life in order to have a relationship with God.

[SZonian]

They can, many just choose to interpret the WoW to include caffeine because it’s talking about coffee and tea instead of taking it literally.

Southern mormons drink lots of Mello Yello, Pepsi and Coke.

I know, I was one among many who did.

[SZonian]

"She told us “I’m not gonna join some religion that sends me to hell for a cup of coffee.” LOL! (Although I doubt that is the case.)"

It's actually closer to the truth than you might imagine.

If a mormon can't enter the temple to take out their endowments, they will be denied entry into the celestial kingdom (highest of the 3) and destined to one of the lesser kingdoms to be servants to those who are more righteous.

According to mormon doctrine, the mormon god and jesus only dwell in the celestial, jesus will go to the lesser kingdoms, but god will not.

So in effect, you are cut off from god.

What's the point then? Isn't that what Christians work towards, to dwell with God after this life?

[21twelve]

Interesting - thanks.

And while I know that the end-game is important, I find it even more sad that folks don’t know of the Love and Grace and Salvation of Jesus here on earth.

[Elsie]

What’s to INTERPRET?

Don’t the WORDS mean EXACTLY what they say?