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Italian cold fusion machine passes another test
MSNBC ^ | 11/3/2011 | Natalie Wolchover

Posted on 11/03/2011 4:05:36 PM PDT by PapaBear3625

Despite a world of skepticism about E-Cat and other devices, proof is adding up

Italian physicist and inventor Andrea Rossi has conducted a public demonstration of his "cold fusion" machine, the E-Cat, at the University of Bologna, showing that a small amount of input energy drives an unexplained reaction between atoms of hydrogen and nickel that leads to a large outpouring of energy, more than 10 times what was put in.

The first seemingly successful cold fusion experiment was reported two decades ago, but the process has forever been met with heavy skepticism. It's a seemingly impossible process in which two types of atoms, typically a light element and a heavier metal, seem to fuse together, releasing pure heat that can be converted into electricity. The process is an attractive energy solution for two reasons: Unlike in nuclear fission, the reaction doesn't give off dangerous radiation. Unlike the fusion processes that take place in the sun, cold fusion doesn't require extremely high temperatures.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: canr; cmns; coldfusion; ecat; energycatalyzer; lanr; lenr; rossi
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MSM is starting to pick up on this.
1 posted on 11/03/2011 4:05:44 PM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: PapaBear3625; Kevmo

The snowball rolleth...


2 posted on 11/03/2011 4:06:52 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Kevmo; Liberty1970; Wonder Warthog

ping.

E-cat getting more mentions in major press.


3 posted on 11/03/2011 4:08:06 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. Barbarism must always ultimately triumph.)
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To: PapaBear3625
It would be such a shame if the camel-f***ers were damaged by this.

ML/NJ

4 posted on 11/03/2011 4:08:58 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Kevmo
There was also an article in Discovery News
5 posted on 11/03/2011 4:09:53 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. Barbarism must always ultimately triumph.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Did you notice this piece didn’t have the automatic “we quoted professor BS and ASS at (some) nuclear energy (company/department/government agency) and he said “Cain’t do it no how”.


6 posted on 11/03/2011 4:12:26 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: editor-surveyor

a light element and a heavier metal, seem to fuse together, releasing pure heat that can be converted into electricity

but what’s the catch , aluminum and say let me see ,gold


7 posted on 11/03/2011 4:15:59 PM PDT by molson209
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To: PapaBear3625

Quick, somebody please post that photo of the guy who looks like Desi Arnaz with the caption “Aw gee, not this *hit Again”.


8 posted on 11/03/2011 4:16:21 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I hope it is not a fraud. We need some good news for a change.


9 posted on 11/03/2011 4:17:19 PM PDT by albionin
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To: PapaBear3625

I still get a kick out of these guys who dispute that this works by arguing it doesn’t give off any high energy radiation ~ neglecting the point that it doesn’t do that because, as it turns out, it doesn’t do that.


10 posted on 11/03/2011 4:20:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PapaBear3625

If it really works, the EPA will find a way to quash it.


11 posted on 11/03/2011 4:20:38 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I still wonder why he hasn’t patented it. I mean it seams that is his next step.


12 posted on 11/03/2011 4:21:25 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Even if it does work, that means unlimited energy. The Libs and Lefties won’t stand for that. How can you ration unlimited energy? It would be racism!


13 posted on 11/03/2011 4:31:34 PM PDT by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2011)
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14 posted on 11/03/2011 4:41:08 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: molson209

Cold Fusion is the Alchemy of this century.


15 posted on 11/03/2011 4:43:20 PM PDT by coldbluesteel (Endo)
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To: coldbluesteel

Actually alchemy was the alchemy of the 20th century. They made all sorts of new elements. Sorry you missed out on it ~ exciting times really!


16 posted on 11/03/2011 5:06:07 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Dallas59

Surely you jest. Unlimited energy can mean unlimited global warming, as ultimately at least a portion energy used gets converted to thermal energy. Energy use will have to be rationed, so that the planet does not boil.</s>


17 posted on 11/03/2011 5:06:53 PM PDT by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: albionin
I hope it is not a fraud. We need some good news for a change.

Don't expect 'good news' from a three-time scammer ...

18 posted on 11/03/2011 5:08:39 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: ml/nj

Somehow, the West will create an EPA or equivalent to prevent cold fusion from becoming a viable source of energy so as to continue their a$$-ki$$ing of the muslim world.


19 posted on 11/03/2011 5:12:02 PM PDT by 353FMG (Liberalism is Satan's handiwork.)
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To: muawiyah
I still get a kick out of these guys who dispute that this works by arguing it doesn’t give off any high energy radiation ~ neglecting the point that it doesn’t do that because, as it turns out, it doesn’t do that.

The physicist that endorses the e-cat and provides the theory for the operation of it also endorses and provides the theory of how water molecules maintain their homeopathic memory ...

20 posted on 11/03/2011 5:12:10 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: PapaBear3625

Natalie, you win a $1,000 award for being the first journalist to use the word “seemingly” three times in a cold fusion article. You also get a red ribbon for using it twice in a paragraph in consecutive sentences! Congrats.


21 posted on 11/03/2011 5:15:31 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: NewinTexsas
We need a reference on anything that claims homoeopathic memory ~ because, as you know, that's just crazy talk.

On the other hand, there's MORE THAN ONE PHYSICIST who buys into the Weak Force thesis.

I've been very surprised at the number of supposedly highly educated physicists who argue for all practical purposes that the Weak Force doesn't exist ~ bet you can 'splain that eh!

22 posted on 11/03/2011 5:21:38 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PapaBear3625

Still waiting for the inventor hands off and independent expert tester hands on test!


23 posted on 11/03/2011 5:41:39 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: RetiredTexasVet
Let's see now, odds are really good that the US, Russia, Chicom China, Nat China, Malaysia, South Korea, Ukrain, Belarus, Israel, Saudi, ......... and another 100+ countries will buy all the initial run if even one of the buyers reflects positively on the product.

150 times $250 million is $37 million less expenses!

24 posted on 11/03/2011 5:46:38 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
We need a reference on anything that claims homoeopathic memory ~ because, as you know, that's just crazy talk.

Brian Josephson

25 posted on 11/03/2011 6:03:57 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas

Wow, for a moment there I thought you were telling us Focardi is a fruit loop.

How about Widom?

There are a lot of folks with PhDs in various hard sciences who do this as a hobby. They’ve been working hard on toking it up to Watt level, not just milliwatt.

Hope they’re not all into homeopathy.

You wouldnt know would you? I don’t keep track of crazy talk.


26 posted on 11/03/2011 6:12:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PapaBear3625
Bah! Humbug!

hydrogen and nickel? or it is:

NiH2 cells using 26% potassium hydroxide (KOH) as an electrolyte have shown a service life of 15 years or more at 80% depth of discharge (DOD)[6]

The energy density is 75 Wh/kg, 60 Wh/dm3[7] specific power 220 W/kg

cold fusion=? below= elemental transmutation-
nickel= 28 aw =58.6934
hydrogen (1)+ nickel = copper
hydrogen (2) + nickel =zinc

or it is NiH2 with
75 Wh/kg
60 Wh/dm3[7]
specific power 220 W/kg

e-cat
``At the demo in October, after an initial energy input of 400 watts into each module, each one then produced a sustained, continuous output of 10 kilowatts (470 kW altogether) for three to four hours.``

The eCat contains 30 liters of 100C water,
and has a total weight of 98 kg

NiH2 voltaic pile (chemical battery): 220W/kg x 98kg = 21560W = 22kW
The yellow ``heat exchanger`` on http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_oct11_b.php looks like a voltaic pile.

10kW/400W = a factor of 25 [e-cat]
22.156kW/25 = 862.4 Watts
ni-h battery pile has zero energy input, let us call it a constant factor of one-
ergo if the e cat is partly water and partly H and Ni, then 10kW is in the same area as a similar weight of voltaic pile of ni and H, a BATTERY, which has to be recharged!!

AHa

I rest my case.

{But what do I know? I`m just a country pumpkin.]

27 posted on 11/03/2011 6:13:01 PM PDT by bunkerhill7
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To: muawiyah
Wow, for a moment there I thought you were telling us Focardi is a fruit loop.

Focardi is a fruit loop but I wasn't referring to him. Josephson is the nobel prize winner in physics that is on multiple e-cat videos supporting the scam and providing 'details' on the possible reaction.

28 posted on 11/03/2011 6:17:16 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: bunkerhill7
The current theory is that he has an iron hydride in the mix ~ it separates the hydrogen nucleus from the electron (or nuclei from their electrons if we're dealing with molecular and not just atomic hydrogen).

That, BTW, gives you three stages to the deal. (1) Hydrolysis of a small amount of water to yield hydrogen gas. (2) Passage of that gas over a sheet of iron hydride (under pressure) to strip the electrons. (3) Then, the hydrogen nuclei are blown into the nickel where every 1011th nuclei are actually Four times as powerful as the average which matches the Coulombe barrier power at the nucleus allowing that nucleus to enter the nickel nucleus, combine with it, whereupon the nucleus spits out some high powered energy and mutates into copper (note, there are 5 stable nickel isotopes and 5 stable copper isotopes so you don't get any hard radiation with this deal).

I'm not so interested in the physics ~ just trying to learn enough to track the theories to see if they match what's seen on the ground. Doesn't mean all of that stuff is correct either.

On the other hand this business of every 1011th hydrogen nuclei actually being emitted from the iron hydride sheet with 4 times as much power as normal reminds me an awful lot of the thesis behind ROGUE WAVES, which is a statistical function.

The idea is simple ~ under any given weather condition there are average waves being created. There's a chance that occasionally a stronger wave will be created in and amongst the others. It should stand out.

Still, most of these bigger waves just disappear. But let's say under a given weather condition we are getting 20 foot waves. The same math prevails. But this time the probability is that we'll get some 40 and 80 foot waves in the mix.

That's big enough to sink or capsize a large ship, and, in fact, large ships have been getting capsized and sunk for centuries!

But lets go further and note that sometimes we have storms with extra large rogue waves. The same math at work, we should sometimes get waves higher than 100 or maybe 200 feet!

After enough observations rogue waves were found to obey the statistically derived curves. Currently there are satellites in orbit that watch for rogue waves! Sailers are warned when they are present.

A century ago all rogue waves were dismissed as IMPOSSIBLE and there were hundreds of thousands of expert mariners around to back that idea up ~ just couldn't be possible ~ why big boats would sink.

Now, all expert mariners know rogue waves can sink them.

So, back to this device that's been hypothesized, the idea that an iron hydride plate similar to other iron hydride plates found in all sorts of high capacity batteries can strip the electrons off an hydrogen atom.

What happens under normal conditions when those higher power hydrogen nuclei are produced? Do they cluster perhaps? Are these the critters that every now and then for no reason at all slag out expensive line batteries owned by the phone companies of the world?

I think there's a chance here that we can capture a standard statistical treatment for wave fronts (whether of water, or nuclei, or electrons, or quarks) that should enable us to CONTROL the higher order wave forms that occur every n'th particle.

29 posted on 11/03/2011 6:42:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"I still wonder why he hasn’t patented it. I mean it seams that is his next step."

He has....in Italy. Euro patent is pending. USA is applied for. Unfortunately, the US Patent Office puts "cold fusion" in the same category as "perpetual motion" and automatically rejects. Part of the reason for all the demos is to convince the various patent granting agencies to get off their duffs and "get it done".

30 posted on 11/03/2011 6:45:43 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: PapaBear3625
Italian physicist and inventor Andrea Rossi...

Rossi isn't a physicist.

31 posted on 11/03/2011 6:49:53 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: truthguy

Desi Arnaz?

I thought he looked like Dick Van Dyke!


32 posted on 11/03/2011 6:52:51 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: PapaBear3625

“The first seemingly successful cold fusion experiment was reported two decades ago, but the process has forever been met with heavy skepticism. It’s a seemingly impossible process in which two types of atoms, typically a light element and a heavier metal, seem to fuse together,”


The scientific establishment has declared it impossible, therefore no matter how many times it’s shown to work, it will be ignored and ridiculed.


33 posted on 11/03/2011 6:53:41 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: bunkerhill7
Rogue waves were not thought to exist by all educated observers and scientists until the Draupner Wave damaged a North Sea platform on January 1, 1995.

Fleischmann and Pons presented cold fusion to the public in March 1989 6 years before any reputable authority would agree that Rogue waves were real.

What that meant is Physics stood still a full 6 years before the first inkling of periodically stronger waves could be found under normal conditions ~ one type of research deals in what is titled the nonlinear Schrödinger equation (NLS).

High powered mathematicians, if not physicists are working on the rogue wave phenomenon because they are a very real danger to world commerce.

Whatever the full body of math we'll devise for these waves it should also apply to wave forms of any dimension ~ including electrons, protons and neutrons ~ maybe even quarks.

34 posted on 11/03/2011 7:01:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PapaBear3625
E-cat getting more mentions in major press.

This article is from blog http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/ that msnbc copied onto their site.

35 posted on 11/03/2011 7:03:23 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
He has....in Italy. Euro patent is pending. USA is applied for. Unfortunately, the US Patent Office puts "cold fusion" in the same category as "perpetual motion" and automatically rejects. Part of the reason for all the demos is to convince the various patent granting agencies to get off their duffs and "get it done".

The patent application says the source of energy is beta decay. Hasn't Rossi said since then that beta decay isn't involved?

36 posted on 11/03/2011 7:06:01 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"I still wonder why he hasn’t patented it." He tried but much of his patent got rejected. He said crazy crap like "Hydrogen, somewhere between 5 degrees and a bazillion degrees." He said nothing for which a good patent could be given, much like his statements about the scam itself.


37 posted on 11/03/2011 7:08:04 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“I still wonder why he hasn’t patented it. I mean it seams that is his next step.”

P.S. Patents are the first step, not a next step. No one should ever venture out into public with something they have no legal protections for. Protections first, disclosures second.


38 posted on 11/03/2011 7:09:12 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: bunkerhill7

“{But what do I know? I`m just a country pumpkin.] “

Silly pumpkin, keep talking sense like that and the feeble minded here will try to squash you.


39 posted on 11/03/2011 7:10:59 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: muawiyah

“A century ago all rogue waves were dismissed as IMPOSSIBLE “

No, they were not. In fact, many boat captains had reported large waves. It was the non sailers that said they could not happen. Again, non-experts claiming things the experts knew otherwise. Just like here. Neither you nor kevmo have any expert experience with such matters as nuclear science, yet, you claim this scam cold fusion Rossi is playing to be true.


40 posted on 11/03/2011 7:14:33 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: muawiyah

“What that meant is Physics stood still a full 6 years before the first inkling of periodically stronger waves could be found under normal conditions ~ one type of research deals in what is titled the nonlinear Schrödinger equation (NLS). “

No, they did not. You should stop getting your information from Wikipedia. The Navy and the Air Force had surface measuring satellite systems in place many years before several were declassified that had measured large waves. They simply didn’t know, and still do not know, how they are formed. They also had ships and subs that measured large waves. Everyone knew they existed but since they were seemingly random, and had caused perhaps only a few losses each year, few corporations were willing to invest in counter measures. It became a dead issue until the entire industry got organized and realized that their losses were greater than they knew. Once the money factor was known research into what and where began.

To say physics stood still is just plain hyperbole, but, then again, you believe Rossi’s cold fusion device is real so what could anyone expect of you.


41 posted on 11/03/2011 7:20:10 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: muawiyah

Your line of thinking is incomplete. There is no principle in your hypothesis from preventing such processes to occur with other compositions, be it Lithium, Iron, etc.. The Earth’s core has plenty of hydrogen - as evidenced by volcanic emissions - and plenty of iron, nickel, etc.. The geologic history of Earth is quite consistent with current conventional science. If LENR is actually occurring in Rossi’s reactor, it would occur in the Earth’s mantel and other planets and the geological behavior of planets would be quite different as what is observed today. The same applies to Rendell Mill’s hydrino hypothesis since it implies an interstellar space whose behavior would differ greatly from what we observe.

Also, there is some disagreement amongst scientists which element has the most stable isotopes: is it Iron or Nickel. More and more scientists lean toward Nickel. To go from Nickel to elements of higher atomic numbers (such as copper) is - overall - endothermic, not exothermic. The coulombic barrier between Nickel and hydrogen is greater than between, say, Sodium and hydrogen; the fusion of Na and H is exothermic and it is with Ni-H.

At best Rossi’s work would make a mild contribution to metalurgy, not LENR.


42 posted on 11/03/2011 7:36:12 PM PDT by barracuda1412
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To: barracuda1412
I think he developed an improved space heater for his factory out of junk. It worked in a surprisingly efficient way. It probably set off his geiger counter every now and then too ~ that's why all vendors or processors of junk commodities, whether oil, crunched cars, etc. have them around. Every now and then you get a dose of irradiated stuff!

Now, do these processes take place internally?

Well, we have the THORIUM DECAY thesis where deeply buried thorium is supposed to be heating the Earth's interior.

It's just a thesis ~ with little evidence other than the finding that Earth's interior is hot.

So, why not LENR heating?

Frankly, I'm wondering if the things we see as UFOs aren't just flying LENR processes underway in bodies of gas belched out of the oceans, or volcanos, or maybe fissures.

You might look into the makeup of mantle plumes. Hot little suckers. We don't really know why they can continue being hot all the way to the top.

43 posted on 11/03/2011 7:48:14 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PapaBear3625

That article appears to be a re-post of the Fox News article.


44 posted on 11/03/2011 7:49:25 PM PDT by Kevmo (Judicaret spectator se ipso: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: CodeToad
They were still dismissed as impossible and the captains who believed in them and talked about them were thought to be crazy. Shipowners wanted men of sound mind running their boats.

Like for you to go back to the books and find the first Admiral to say "rogue wave".

45 posted on 11/03/2011 7:51:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

‘’Well, we have the THORIUM DECAY thesis where deeply buried thorium is supposed to be heating the Earth’s interior.’’

You seem ignorant of the science of geology. Thorium played little role in the geology story of the Earth’s core.

The story of the discovery of radioactivity starts with - of all things - Darwin’s book: On the origin of Species (published in 1859). Darwin understood that evolution takes a very long time and he needed to support the evolution theory by showing that Earth is old enough to bring about life and evolution. Darwin assumed an erosion rate of an inch a century, and then extrapolated that some 300 million years were apparently necessary to explain the total amount of erosion that had occurred.

In 1862, Lord Kelvin published his analysis in a paper titled On the Secular Cooling of the Earth. He arrived at a best estimate for the age of the Earth of 100 million years.
Essentially, Lord Kelvin stated that if Earth is more than 100 milliion years old, there would be no volcanic activity (tidal forces would be unsufficient) and the planet would be totally solid to the core.

The Christian Fundamentalists were in an uproar against Darwin and held up Lord Kelvin’s study to show that Darwin is incorrect. However, the sedimentation record of the Grand Canyon implies that Earth is at least 2 billion years old. Other studies concluded that Earth is much younger than 1 billion years old. It came to the point that Lord Kelvin stated that if one can discover an unknown - at that time - source of energy then he will acknowledge that his models were false.

Then in 1896, Henri Becquerel accidentally discovered radioactivity.


46 posted on 11/03/2011 7:56:39 PM PDT by barracuda1412
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To: muawiyah

You are incorrect.

There has been consensus of scientists for more than 150 years that rogue waves exist and it is due to constructive
interference of waves. The issue was the frequency of said waves since there is a number of forces at play: wind/sea interface, oceanic currents, Coriolis force, etc.. In the past 10 years, from satellite observations, the number of rogue waves was about 3 times what was thought from conventional models.

No need to hype.


47 posted on 11/03/2011 8:01:37 PM PDT by barracuda1412
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To: PapaBear3625; dangerdoc; citizen; Lancey Howard; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; ...

Thanks for the ping.

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2800077/posts

Unfortunately, if Rossi hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps, created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos, bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow, arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real, got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field, got Bushnell to make a fool of himself, sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan – the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes and knows that they will just take his word for it and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out – then all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses .


48 posted on 11/03/2011 8:13:11 PM PDT by Kevmo (Judicaret spectator se ipso: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: CodeToad
Everyone knew they existed but since they were seemingly random, and had caused perhaps only a few losses each year, few corporations were willing to invest in counter measures. It became a dead issue until the entire industry got organized and realized that their losses were greater than they knew. Once the money factor was known research into what and where began.

So evidence favoring the rogue wave was officially ignored until finance perceived that policy to be against it interest. Perhaps the evidence favoring cold fusion is currently ignored for the same reason.

49 posted on 11/03/2011 8:15:05 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: muawiyah; coldbluesteel
Actually alchemy was the alchemy of the 20th century. They made all sorts of new elements. Sorry you missed out on it ~ exciting times really!

Glenn Seaborg, pick up the white courtesy phone...

Cheers!

50 posted on 11/03/2011 8:21:12 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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