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Electric Supercar Blows Doors Off Tesla
Discovery News ^ | 09-28-2011 | Analysis by Jesse Emspak

Posted on 09/30/2011 9:03:59 AM PDT by Red Badger

A group of gear heads from Croatia has produced a car designed to show that “electric vehicle” doesn’t have to mean “something my granola-eating neighbor drives.”

Rimac Automobil, named for its founder, Mate Rimac, unveiled the Concept_One at the International Auto Show in Frankfurt. Designed as a sleek sports car it is powered entirely by batteries, and can, the company says, hit 62 miles per hour in 2.8 seconds, and reach a limit of 190 mph. The batteries carry 92 kilowatt-hours, or enough to power an average American home for three days -- or drive the car 372 miles, enough to get from New York to Pittsburgh. (The Tesla Roadster, also a very impressive electric hotrod, hits 60 mph in 3.7 seconds, has a top speed of 125 mph and has a battery range of 245 miles.)

The engines put out the equivalent of 1,088 horsepower, enough to beat some internal combustion models. The motive force to the wheels is divided among four engines that can each be controlled independently. That allows the torque to each wheel to be adjusted as necessary. A computer subsystem controls each pair of wheels and, according to Rimac, can make adjustments thousands of times each second.

The body is light, made of carbon fiber, and the battery is placed near the center of the car for better weight distribution.

This isn’t the only electric supercar out there: there’s the Tesla Roadster, which boasts a similar 0 to 60 acceleration and Audi rolled out a high-performance electric concept car, the e-tron, in 2009. But if nothing else it shows once again that newer body designs and advances in control technologies can build an electric car that is both powerful and environmentally friendly.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Technical
KEYWORDS: battery; croatia; electriccar; energy; rimac; tesla
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1 posted on 09/30/2011 9:04:10 AM PDT by Red Badger
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To: Red Badger

That’s a very nice looking coal-powered car.

As long as I’m not paying for it, I wish them good luck.


2 posted on 09/30/2011 9:07:34 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Red Badger

It looks great but the idea they have to place the battery in the center for better weight distribution bothers me.
It reminds me of the movies when they have to ditch the cargo in order for the plane to fly. How safe can it be?


3 posted on 09/30/2011 9:08:25 AM PDT by Bitsy (!)
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To: Red Badger
Disregarding everything else, if it actually does have a range of 372 miles, it is a viable alternative to a petroleum-fueled vehicle.

Where all the electricity would come from for millions of them is an entirely other question.

4 posted on 09/30/2011 9:11:03 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: Red Badger

Yeah, yeah.

I’ve been reading about the torque advantage for electric cars for some years now. Big deal. The article says it can go 372 miles between recharges. I’ll just bet it can. So it’s got a body you can put your fist through and the ability to carry one passenger and a cup-holder.

Get back to me when the competitively priced minivan version comes out.


5 posted on 09/30/2011 9:11:09 AM PDT by sinanju
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To: Bitsy

Two are in the center front and four are in the center back. (from their website.)

How long does it take a coal powered utility company to charge it for that 372 mile range? How much does each charge cost the driver? How well does it handle a crash? What would be the expected costs from a 20 mph crash?

There are a lot of questions that the answers cannot be found for in the article and on the company website.


6 posted on 09/30/2011 9:13:00 AM PDT by Ingtar (I closed my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone...)
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To: Red Badger
POWER!!


7 posted on 09/30/2011 9:16:51 AM PDT by FReepaholic (I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok.)
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To: Red Badger
The batteries carry 92 kilowatt-hours, or enough to power an average American home for three days -- or drive the car 372 miles, enough to get from New York to Pittsburgh.

92 kilowatt-hours is the energy equivalent of 2.6 gallons of gasoline (at 34 megajoules per liter). Even considering that gasoline engines are relatively inefficient compared to electric motors (just don't ask any questions about whether the inefficiencies are moved back to the electric generation plant), that is pretty darn impressive.

8 posted on 09/30/2011 9:17:29 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Compare "Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson // "Pass this bill now!" - Barack Obama)
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To: Red Badger
"The motive force to the wheels is divided among four engines ...."

Actually that's four motors. The motors are motivated by electromotive force (emf).

In the Volt, a gasoline-fueled internal combustion engine is used to turn a generator to provide the emf used by the motor.

/pedantic gearhead
9 posted on 09/30/2011 9:18:30 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Red Badger

I’ll take two!


10 posted on 09/30/2011 9:20:18 AM PDT by bksanders
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To: Ingtar

Let’s see the range on a typical winter day with the heater running and hot summer day with the air conditioner blasting especially if the car is left outside overnight. What rare earth metals are used in the battery? Who supplies these minerals besides the Chinese? What are the environmental impacts of mining these rare earths? What is the replacement cost of the batteries?


11 posted on 09/30/2011 9:20:21 AM PDT by businessprofessor
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To: Red Badger
There is no situation in which I would buy a GM Volt or any other GM product. Ever. I would, however, consider a product from this company, a development from this concept car, depending on price, charge time, and other characteristics. We have carbon fiber golf clubs, tennis rackets, and fishing poles, and they can be very strong, light, and durable (although not as durable as metal). I have no problem with this vehicle, although it doesn't look production ready yet.

My only issue is with GM, and I will never forgive that company for the massive corruption that turned GM into "new" GM, stiffed bondholders, stiffed old owners for warranty repairs, and enriched UAW and other politically connected crooks. The Volt will die, soon, and that terrible car deserves to die based on its low quality and lack of value, but Rimac has a good idea with this car.

12 posted on 09/30/2011 9:20:29 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

how long will it take to recharge?

top gear did a little skit with two electric cars that showed how pathetic they were.


13 posted on 09/30/2011 9:20:53 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: D-fendr
Without the middleman...



Libs in denial.
14 posted on 09/30/2011 9:22:32 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: longtermmemmory
how long will it take to recharge?

If it can recharge overnight and truly has a range of over 350 miles, it is viable.

If it can't and/or doesn't, it is not viable.

And there are many other issues, but I am addressing only these two.

15 posted on 09/30/2011 9:23:53 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: KarlInOhio

—92 kilowatt-hours is the energy equivalent of 2.6 gallons of gasoline —

Which would mean they are claiming it can go 372 miles on the equivalent of 2.6 gallons of gas. That’s 143 MPG.

Something doesn’t wash here.

It looks nice though.


16 posted on 09/30/2011 9:27:52 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Is that a coal powered van?


17 posted on 09/30/2011 9:28:04 AM PDT by cornfedcowboy (Trust in God, but empty the clip.)
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To: Red Badger
environmentally friendly.

Burning coal is considered environmentally friendly these days?

18 posted on 09/30/2011 9:28:53 AM PDT by from occupied ga (your own government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Wait a minute: so it takes all NIGHT to recharge? So you’re driving through Kansas and are out of gas, er, volts. You pull into an electric charger and you have to sit there TWELVE HOURS???


19 posted on 09/30/2011 9:31:56 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Red Badger; D-fendr; Bitsy; E. Pluribus Unum; sinanju; Ingtar; FReepaholic; KarlInOhio; ...

So from 92kWH for three days, that would mean a monthly electric bill of about $138 for their “average family”. That’s reasonable.

372 miles, if at 60mph is 6.2 hours.

92kWH used constantly would be 14.8kW.

746W per HP means 19.9HP would be available to maintain that cruising speed. That’s doable in current ultracompacts.

OTOH, lets examine “1,088HP”....enough to beat “some internal combustion models...” LOL. “some” Seeing as the Corvette 6.2l monster is rated at 430HP, yeah, 1,088HP would be just about beat “some” engines out there. This is the kind of “tell” in an article that shows the writer has no clue what numbers they’re throwing around.

1088HP = 811.6kW

92kWH/811kW = full throttle for 6.8 minutes.

So all in all, the numbers are rational. Not necessarily *reasonable* or practical, but exactly what you’d expect if you scaled up a child’s R/C race car to full size.

IOW, there’s nothing magical about electric cars here, just same old laws of physics and scale.


20 posted on 09/30/2011 9:32:17 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Bitsy
It looks great but the idea they have to place the battery in the center for better weight distribution bothers me.

It shouldn't. Serious race cars try to have the weight as evenly distributed through the body as possible, with many racers have the engine itself towards the middle. That's a feature, not a compensation.


21 posted on 09/30/2011 9:32:54 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (It's fun to play with your vision, but don't ever play with your eyes.-1970's PSA)
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To: Red Badger

Don’t want electric sports cars.

I want a car that I take kids to school in, commute in, pick up groceries in and take a road trip to the Keys down A1A in.

If they want to make money and prove the electric car concept, they need to build the “Mom ‘n Pop mobile” not sports cars.


22 posted on 09/30/2011 9:34:08 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: LS
I have no idea how long it takes to recharge. I was just positing that it is a viable commuter vehicle if it charges overnight and has a range over 350 miles.

I didn't say anything about a cross-country road trip. I have no idea if it is viable or not. I suspect not.

23 posted on 09/30/2011 9:34:30 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: D-fendr

Not necessarily coal-powered. While massive solar energy plants are nowhere near being competitive with coal-generated electricity, solar panels for on-site use (i.e., recharging your car at home, cooling your home, selling surplus production back to the electrical company) are going to be competitive soon. Not a solution for powering our industry, but they certainly are feasible for powering up cars overnight.

(”Overnight?” you ask. of course, I’m not talking about generating solar power at night; I’m talking about exchanging night-time-produced coal power for daytime-produced solar power, or storing solar-produced power until night.)


24 posted on 09/30/2011 9:35:15 AM PDT by dangus
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To: cornfedcowboy
Is that a coal powered van?

I think it's an SUV.
25 posted on 09/30/2011 9:35:28 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: dangus

But will they be competitive without subsidies and with a reasonable pay back time? Last I looked, there was about a 20+ year pay back.


26 posted on 09/30/2011 9:37:46 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: cuban leaf

Don’t forget that a gasoline engine is terribly inefficient. Combustion produces heat, not motion. You have to convert that heat into motion, which is not very favorable.


27 posted on 09/30/2011 9:40:16 AM PDT by dangus
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To: businessprofessor

” Let’s see the range on a typical winter day with the heater running and hot summer day with the air conditioner blasting especially if the car is left outside overnight. What rare earth metals are used in the battery? Who supplies these minerals besides the Chinese? What are the environmental impacts of mining these rare earths? What is the replacement cost of the batteries? “

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
These are exactly the common-sense questions that have to be kept in the forefront of this topic. Solve these problems, and you’ve got something. Ignore them, and you fail miserably.


28 posted on 09/30/2011 9:40:51 AM PDT by Humble Servant
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To: KarlInOhio; Red Badger; D-fendr; Bitsy; E. Pluribus Unum; sinanju; Ingtar; FReepaholic; ...
92 kilowatt-hours is the energy equivalent of 2.6 gallons of gasoline.... that is pretty darn impressive.

Lets say it's lithium ion. 720kJ/kg (lead acid is only 100kJ/kg)

Gas as you say is 3400kJ/l, 4700kJ/kg.

100 years of development in battery technology, and the smart guys who picked gasoline a century ago still have the most advance electric technology beat by a factor of 6.

Indeed, that's impressive! =-)

29 posted on 09/30/2011 9:41:55 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine

>> OTOH, lets examine “1,088HP”....enough to beat “some internal combustion models...” LOL. “some” Seeing as the Corvette 6.2l monster is rated at 430HP, yeah, 1,088HP would be just about beat “some” engines out there. This is the kind of “tell” in an article that shows the writer has no clue what numbers they’re throwing around. <<

I’d like to see a Corvette go 0 to 60 in about 2.8 seconds. There’s a reason the author calls the Roadster and this car “supercars.”

What is “magical” is the efficiency at converting electricity to power (and torque). The problem has long been the effective transport of that electricity, since you can’t exactly drag an extension cord all the way to work.


30 posted on 09/30/2011 9:45:16 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Red Badger

What about putting a small turbocharged “green” biodiesel using
engine in that thing? Then hybridize the car and use
the small diesel to charge the batteries. No worry about recharge time.
Great mileage, carbon neutral(just so Al G. doesn’t call me). Easy
accessibility to fuel.
OTOH, if they can get batteries to be smaller, hold larger
amounts of energy, and can be recharged quickly this could
be a great idea.
How about a universal battery pack, which can be removed from
your car, and replaced with a fully charged pack? This could
be done at an electric station. Could take less time than
a fill up with gas.


31 posted on 09/30/2011 9:45:21 AM PDT by Getready (Wisdom is more valuable than gold and diamonds, and harder to find.)
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To: Red Badger
Electric Supercar Blows Doors Off Tesla
Top Gear did a great show with the Tesla a few years back. They raved about it, but also acknowledged its shortcomings.
Tesla is now suing the BBC about those negative comments and Top Gear's response can be seen here.

32 posted on 09/30/2011 9:45:39 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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The body is built of carbon fiber.

They did not mention cost or if it will pass federal safety standards.

If it can do that for $130k or less then it can talk of blowing the doors of Tesla.

If it cost over $150k and can’t pass federal safety standards then it just a mildly interesting concept.


33 posted on 09/30/2011 9:45:46 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: D-fendr

Check this out:

http://www.killacycle.com/about/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pM1j2d1RMU


34 posted on 09/30/2011 9:47:57 AM PDT by A. Patriot (Have we lost our Republic? Do the majority of Americans care?)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

The Volt uses a gasoline fueled internal combustine engine after the first 25-50 miles of pure electric drive.


35 posted on 09/30/2011 9:48:11 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: sam_paine

>> Lets say it’s lithium ion. 720kJ/kg (lead acid is only 100kJ/kg). Gas as you say is 3400kJ/l, 4700kJ/kg. 100 years of development in battery technology, and the smart guys who picked gasoline a century ago still have the most advance electric technology beat by a factor of 6. <<

Ridiculous comparison. You don’t consume ANY Lithium* in a Lithium battery.

(*Well, eventually the battery loses its rechargability, which is one of the cautionary issues about electrical cars and their amazingly expensive batteries. But this is at an infinitessimal consumption rate, if you can even call it consumption.)


36 posted on 09/30/2011 9:48:22 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Red Badger

Just think if it had been a new kind of watch made in Croatia! Instead of a Swatch it’d be a Cratch!


37 posted on 09/30/2011 9:49:28 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Croatians are not known for innovative thinking.


38 posted on 09/30/2011 9:51:55 AM PDT by montyspython (This thread needs more cowbell)
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To: cuban leaf

That’s 92 kwh “in the batteries”. When you take into account the energy transmission and conversion losses: chemical(coal) to heat(boiler) to mechanical (turbine) to electrical (generator) then transmit to chemical (car battery) you will find an energy efficiency worse then a similiar sized gasoline auto. In other words, I would like to see the electric vehicle owner’s eyes when he gets his first electric bill. Another way to look at it is to compare gas clothes dryers vs electric clothes dryers: A gas dryer will cost you about half, per month, when compared to an electric dryer. By the way, 92 kwh in California will cost about $.30/kwh not $.05/kwh as advertised in their ads. Also, I do not believe the 4 mi/kwh claim (380 mi for 92 kwh). It should be like 1 mi/kwh.


39 posted on 09/30/2011 9:53:07 AM PDT by robert14 (Obamacare from another angle)
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To: dangus
You don’t consume ANY Lithium* in a Lithium battery.

Of course you don't. Performance and range are defined by energy density. That's the comparison.

How much weight do you have to carry around to provide the "92kWH."

In fact, batteries are worse than combustible fuels because the "lithium" is not consumed.

But you bring up another good point against batteries...!

As you burn gasoline, the weight of the car goes down, allowing effective increases in effective mileage. As you discharge a battery, battery still weighs the same. Effective energy density of a battery goes toward zero as it runs down, whereas energy density of gasoline or diesel remains constant.

40 posted on 09/30/2011 9:57:07 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: dangus
(i.e., recharging your car at home, cooling your home, selling surplus production back to the electrical company)

That old bugaboo, again?

Yeah, the utility is required to buy any surplus power you might generate, but you will be required to provide it at a certain voltage level, at a certain condition and you will be required to install and maintain protection so your surplus power doesn't screw up their network.

It requires more than a feedback loop and throwing a switch.

41 posted on 09/30/2011 10:02:16 AM PDT by woofer
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To: Ingtar

Yes, there are a lot of questions... But the key word here is “concept”. And looking at this car, I’m not sure too many soccer moms will be transporting their kids to the game in this particular car.

My only issue with this “concept car” is will it come with downloadable apps for whatever engine sound you want to hear? I mean seriously, you can’t drive something like this from 0 to 60 in 2.8 seconds with out some kind of roar. That just ain’t right...


42 posted on 09/30/2011 10:05:46 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: dangus
What is “magical” is the efficiency at converting electricity to power (and torque)

It's not magical at all. It's power vs. time. You can blast out 1088HP in one quick shot, or you can inch along at 20HP for 6 hours.

A "non-supercar" as you call it can go 0-60 in 3.4 seconds (slower than 2.8...but enough to fold the floor mat over your feet) and it has an 18 gallon (2,300MJ) "energy storage device" that can wind out 200MPH for about ten times longer without stopping than this supahstahcah can.

Look. R/C electric cars are fun, too. But they're just toys.

43 posted on 09/30/2011 10:07:46 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Bitsy

Putting the heavy battery in the middle of the car and low, lowers the center of gravity, making the car more stable on turns, and equalizes the weight on each wheel, so the motors can be equally driven.................


44 posted on 09/30/2011 10:11:41 AM PDT by Red Badger (We cannot defeat an enemy that the president and hence his administration cannot name.......)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Where all the electricity would come from for millions of them is an entirely other question.


45 posted on 09/30/2011 10:14:35 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: LS
So you’re driving through Kansas and are out of gas, er, volts. You pull into an electric charger and you have to sit there TWELVE HOURS???

Where's your entrepeneurship spirit?

There will be a chain of VOLT-n-NAP's all along the highways.

Charging stations can be also added at truck stops (where they nap anyway) as large trucks go to battery powered engines.

Look at all the jobs this will create.

A loaf of bread will, it is likely, cost $8 but heck, we're saving the whales, ya know!

46 posted on 09/30/2011 10:14:56 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Red Badger

How long does it take to recharge?


47 posted on 09/30/2011 10:15:29 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Where's he getting these ideas? He's not smart enough to be that stupid all by himself.)
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To: montyspython
Croatians are not known for innovative thinking.

Nikola Tesla was Serbo-Croatian.

CC

48 posted on 09/30/2011 10:16:39 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from a lack of wisdom.)
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To: Paine in the Neck

Doesn’t say, nor is it on their homepage website.........But the laws of physics would decree a several hour charging time,at current battery technology. if they are using some new technology battery charging system it may be shorter.........


49 posted on 09/30/2011 10:22:00 AM PDT by Red Badger (We cannot defeat an enemy that the president and hence his administration cannot name.......)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
I think it's an SUV.

Sooty Utility Vehicle?

50 posted on 09/30/2011 10:26:32 AM PDT by tnlibertarian (Things are so bad now, Kenyans are saying Obama was born in the USA.)
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